Future 600 MHz band & OTHER discussion thread (was "Sprint + 600 MHz?")

[maximus1987/lou99]

They want you to buy NEW phones, not use the same one forever. What's the best way to do that? Stop supplying updates to old hardware.

This update benefits the carrier more than the user. It evens the load on their network while imperceptibly increasing the user's data speeds.

 

Carriers want you to buy new phones? Google "carrier subsidies" and you'll see the carriers do NOT want you to keep buying subsidized phones. They'd love it if you kept the same phone forever assuming you have an LTE phone

 

With Sprint's new $80 plan, Sprint only gets (80 - 450/24) = 61.25 because of the phone subsidy (assuming a $450 subsidy). After two years, do you think they want to continue making 61.25 or switch to $80 in true revenue? They make MORE money if you keep the same phone forever.

 

The only caveat is if you have a non-LTE smartphone. They want to reduce load in EVDO but if you're already on an LTE smartphone, don't worry: they're not gonna spam your email encouraging you to cost them another $450

 

And in 6 years when they're trying to remove CDMA from their network, yes they'd like you to purchase a new phone with VoLTE but they don't want you to purchase a new phone every 2 years just cause.

Edited July 16, 2013 by asdf190

[Nickel]

This update benefits the carrier more than the user. It evens the load on their network while imperceptibly increasing the user's data speeds. Carriers want you to buy new phones? Google "carrier subsidies" and you'll see the carriers do NOT want you to keep buying subsidized phones. They'd love it if you kept the same phone forever assuming you have an LTE phone With Sprint's new $80 plan, Sprint only gets (80 - 450/24) = 61.25 because of the phone subsidy (assuming a $450 subsidy). After two years, do you think they want to continue making 61.25 or switch to $80 in true revenue? They make MORE money if you keep the same phone forever. The only caveat is if you have a non-LTE smartphone. They want to reduce load in EVDO but if you're already on an LTE smartphone, don't worry: they're not gonna spam your email encouraging you to cost them another $450 And in 6 years when they're trying to remove CDMA from their network, yes they'd like you to purchase a new phone with VoLTE but they don't want you to purchase a new phone every 2 years just cause.

This whole argument is pointless because, as was pointed out to me, the Verizon iPhone 5 already supports band 5 LTE.

[maximus1987/lou99]

This whole argument is pointless because, as was pointed out to me, the Verizon iPhone 5 already supports band 5 LTE.

But it's not enabled. Yes, I agree this argument is academic even for s4gru but where else can we have these conversations? Lol

[maximus1987/lou99]

Will FCC require 600 MHz interoperability?

[ericdabbs]

Will FCC require 600 MHz interoperability?

 

I hope the FCC doesn't drop the ball with the 600 MHz spectrum like they did with the 700 MHz spectrum where they didn't force LTE interoperability.  Honestly the FCC should just have 1 LTE band class to cover all of the 600 MHz blocks.  AWS and PCS spectrum have 1 band class to cover all the different blocks of spectrum.

[maximus1987/lou99]

I hope the FCC doesn't drop the ball with the 600 MHz spectrum like they did with the 700 MHz spectrum where they didn't force LTE interoperability. Honestly the FCC should just have 1 LTE band class to cover all of the 600 MHz blocks. AWS and PCS spectrum have 1 band class to cover all the different blocks of spectrum.

FCC doesn't make the band classes.

[ericdabbs]

FCC doesn't make the band classes.

 

You're right i was confusing the 2.  I meant to say the FCC enforce interoperability and the 3GPP make just 1 band class for all the 600 MHz blocks.

[WiWavelength]

Will FCC require 600 MHz interoperability?

 

Will the Detroit Tigers win the World Series?

 

 

AJ

[maximus1987/lou99]

You're right i was confusing the 2. I meant to say the FCC enforce interoperability and the 3GPP make just 1 band class for all the 600 MHz blocks.

If the FCC doesn't drop the ball again with DTV interference, there will only be one band class.

[mozamcrew]

Maybe they could set up the 600Mz in such a way as to include the 700Mhz A block in the new band?

[Fraydog]

Will the Detroit Tigers win the World Series?

 

 

AJ

If they do I'm obviously pulling this out of the archive. If my Cardinals don't make it to the World Series and the Tigers do, I know who to pull for now.

[WiWavelength]

Following Clearwire, Sprint has chimed in with its support for a TDD 600 MHz band plan.

 

http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=7520931297

 

AJ

[maximus1987/lou99]

Following Clearwire, Sprint has chimed in with its support for a TDD 600 MHz band plan.

 

http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=7520931297

 

AJ

I thought there was an issue with harmonics and GPS interference?

[WiWavelength]

I thought there was an issue with harmonics and GPS interference?

 

Read the ex parte presentation.

 

AJ

[maximus1987/lou99]

Hasn't the FCC already come up with a preliminary proposal?

 

[ericdabbs]

Would 600 MHz TDD band plan be better than a 600 MHz FDD band plan?  I sorta like the Tmobile 600 MHz FDD band plan assuming they can clear 84 MHz of 600 MHz but I guess this is interesting.  It looks like Sprint's proposal would be to have the 600 MHz block from 614-698 MHz broken off into 10 MHz blocks. 

 

I really think the best approach for the 600 MHz band configuration would be to find out how much 600 MHz spectrum the FCC is able to obtain from the TV broadcasters.  If there are uneven number of paired capable blocks of spectrum for FDD configuration then TDD should be the way to go.

[bigsnake49]

Would 600 MHz TDD band plan be better than a 600 MHz FDD band plan?  I sorta like the Tmobile 600 MHz FDD band plan assuming they can clear 84 MHz of 600 MHz but I guess this is interesting.  It looks like Sprint's proposal would be to have the 600 MHz block from 614-698 MHz broken off into 10 MHz blocks. 

 

I really think the best approach for the 600 MHz band configuration would be to find out how much 600 MHz spectrum the FCC is able to obtain from the TV broadcasters.  If there are uneven number of paired capable blocks of spectrum for FDD configuration then TDD should be the way to go.

 

Anything is better than what happened to the 700MHz spectrum.

[maximus1987/lou99]

Would 600 MHz TDD band plan be better than a 600 MHz FDD band plan? I sorta like the Tmobile 600 MHz FDD band plan assuming they can clear 84 MHz of 600 MHz but I guess this is interesting. It looks like Sprint's proposal would be to have the 600 MHz block from 614-698 MHz broken off into 10 MHz blocks.

 

I really think the best approach for the 600 MHz band configuration would be to find out how much 600 MHz spectrum the FCC is able to obtain from the TV broadcasters. If there are uneven number of paired capable blocks of spectrum for FDD configuration then TDD should be the way to go.

Look at my pic: the FCC is already planning for an uneven number of blocks. Their solution: have a constant number of downlink blocks nationwide and variable number of uplink blocks per market. All downlink blocks that can't be paired will be used as supplemental downlink.

 

If they can't clear at least X-5MHz for downlink in all markets, FCC said they're not gonna clear any in that market and carriers will be expected to use other spectrum holdings; they haven't set the X yet.

[maximus1987/lou99]

In really rural areas where there's only one or two stations in operation, who owns the fallow tv spectrum. The government?

[ericdabbs]

Look at my pic: the FCC is already planning for an uneven number of blocks. Their solution: have a constant number of downlink blocks nationwide and variable number of uplink blocks per market. All downlink blocks that can't be paired will be used as supplemental downlink.

 

If they can't clear at least X-5MHz for downlink in all markets, FCC said they're not gonna clear any in that market and carriers will be expected to use other spectrum holdings; they haven't set the X yet.

 

So what is your opinion on whether the 600 MHz should be FDD or TDD?  I feel like at the end of the day, the FCC is at the mercy of the TV operators to give up their spectrum and at this point we don't know what that picture will look like.  I am glad all the wireless carriers are chiming in now on what they would like to see for the 600 MHz band plan to begin the debate.

[maximus1987/lou99]

So what is your opinion on whether the 600 MHz should be FDD or TDD? I feel like at the end of the day, the FCC is at the mercy of the TV operators to give up their spectrum and at this point we don't know what that picture will look like. I am glad all the wireless carriers are chiming in now on what they would like to see for the 600 MHz band plan to begin the debate.

I don't have enough technical background to have an opinion on that.

 

In the articles I've seen, the cost of the downlink duplexer/filters has been a driving force in the debate.

 

Also, interference may doom TDD. See Qualcomm's position:

 

http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view;jsessionid=M6fmRR0Bv3tbMt62yPSWwnr2jLNc2fCkwvhg0yN7dDMvz6vgKk5p!-1272756975!1291806534?id=7520926650

 

[rf40928]

A million articles out there now.. but I posted what most of you already may know just cuz its fun !

 

600 MHz auction battle

 

"The dustup kicked off in April when the Department of Justice called on the FCC to create auction rules that would ensure Sprint, T-Mobile and other smaller players get a chance control some of the airwaves, perhaps by capping how much spectrum AT&T and Verizon can get."

 

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/its-verizon-and-att-vs-sprint-and-t-mobile-600-mhz-auction-battle/2013-06-04

[maximus1987/lou99]

A million articles out there now.. but I posted what most of you already may know just cuz its fun !

 

600 MHz auction battle

 

"The dustup kicked off in April when the Department of Justice called on the FCC to create auction rules that would ensure Sprint, T-Mobile and other smaller players get a chance control some of the airwaves, perhaps by capping how much spectrum AT&T and Verizon can get."

 

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/its-verizon-and-att-vs-sprint-and-t-mobile-600-mhz-auction-battle/2013-06-04

T-Mobile proposes sliding spectrum screen rule for 600 MHz auction

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/t-mobile-proposes-sliding-spectrum-screen-rule-600-mhz-auction/2013-06-25

[rf40928]

@asdf190

 

Sprint's budget is finally allowing them to make plans for things they previously couldn't afford.

 

Remember Top Gun... "Son, Your Ego is writing checks your body can't cash ! "

 

In another year Sprint will be very solid, in two years they'll be downright respectable !

[Fraydog]

Qualcomm usually wins those battles with the FCC. See past history as a guide.

 

I can only hope that Sprint's Plan B is the T-Mobile FDD plan. Of all the plans I would prefer that over Sprint's.