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(UPDATED) LG Eclipse 4G casts an early shadow

WiWavelength

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by Andrew J. Shepherd
Sprint 4G Rollout Updates
Friday, August 10, 2012 - 6:54 PM MDT

 

Update: The previously dubbed LG Eclipse is being released November 11 as the Optimus G. Additionally, the LTE 1900 EIRP figures that were missing from the original FCC filing were added six weeks later in a Class II Permissive Change application. Max LTE 1900 EIRP is 23.51 dBm -- though with substantial variability (up to 4.5 dB) due to differences in carrier frequency, bandwidth, and modulation (QPSK/16-QAM). Furthermore, CDMA1X/EV-DO 800 max ERP has been increased by approximately 2 dB to 23.17 dBm.

 

To quote the inimitable Yogi Berra, "It's déjà vu all over again." And here we go again. S4GRU is happy to announce yet another breakdown of an FCC OET (Office of Engineering and Technology) authorization filing for a major device headed to Sprint's upcoming Network Vision enhanced LTE overlay. Since this spring, we have analyzed the FCC authorizations for the HTC EVO 4G LTE, Samsung Galaxy S3, and yet to be released Motorola Photon Q 4G. Today, the expected LG Eclipse 4G hit the FCC database under the model number LG LS970, and here are the RF facets that we have been able to glean:

  • CDMA1X + EV-DO band classes 0, 1, 10 (i.e. CDMA1X + EV-DO 850/1900/800)
  • LTE band 25 (i.e. LTE 1900; PCS A-G blocks)
  • LTE 5 MHz and 10 MHz carrier bandwidths
  • 802.11a/b/g/n Wi-Fi; max MCS index 7 (i.e. 20 MHz channel, 400 ns guard interval, single spatial channel)
  • SVLTE support, including SVLTE and simultaneous Wi-Fi tether
  • SVDO support absent
  • Maximum RF ERP/EIRP: 21.86 dBm (CDMA1X/EV-DO 850), 25.33 dBm (CDMA1X/EV-DO 1900), 21.68 dBm (CDMA1X/EV-DO 800)
  • NFC antenna integrated into battery cover
  • Antenna locations: (see FCC OET diagrams below)

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Notably missing from the presumed LG Eclipse's FCC filing are two things: SVDO capability and LTE band 25 EIRP test results.

Rumor has it that the Eclipse will utilize Qualcomm's upcoming and highly anticipated APQ8064 quad core 28 nm "Krait" processor. The quad core difference is noteworthy compared to the dual core MSM8960 chipset that has proven very successful in the EVO LTE and Galaxy S3, et al. But the MSM8960 incorporates a multimode modem, while the APQ8064 is a naked processor. If rumor has it right, then the Eclipse will also have to utilize at least one separate modem chipset. And it would seem that LG has chosen at least one CDMA1X/EV-DO modem that is not capable of voice "Fusion," which would enable SVDO with a second modem. So, like its Viper predecessor, the Eclipse appears to be a multiple chipset design. But unlike the Viper, the Eclipse is absent SVDO.

Furthermore, the FCC OET filing includes requisite CDMA1X + EV-DO 850/1900/800 ERP/EIRP figures but lacks LTE 1900 EIRP figures. So, do not hold your breath for a release date. We will leave it to other sources to speculate/report on the ergonomics and other technical attributes of the upcoming LG device. But we expect that LG and its authorized testing lab will have to file supplemental results before the supposed Eclipse makes its way into the hands of eager Sprint subscribers.

 

Source: FCC

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Nope. Because of the regulatory-industrial complex and planned obsolescence, expect possible capabilities, such as LTE 800, only when necessary. So, probably not until next year.

 

AJ

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Judging by the alledged dimensions, the front of the device will be 5.87 inches diagonally. I smell a Note size screen in the works. A screen of that size running IPS technology, I just may dehydrate from drooling.

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Great write up as usual, I didn't even realize the quadcore variant was just a naked chip with no incorporated modems. Also, maybe I read this wrong but I thought the viper supported svdo, doesnt it?

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Great write up as usual, I didn't even realize the quadcore variant was just a naked chip with no incorporated modems. Also, maybe I read this wrong but I thought the viper supported svdo, doesnt it?

The Viper does support SVDO.

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Weird location for the EVDO antenna. My hand would be covering the bottom of the phone when using data. I understand other phones putting the 1x at the bottom. When it is up to your ear, your hand isn't covering the 1x antenna. When you are holding it for data usage, you are not covering the EVDO antenna.

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Yes, the Viper does support SVDO. I was unintentionally conflating in my mind the multiple chipset design of the Viper and the lack of SVDO in the Galaxy Nexus. I have corrected the article. Thanks for pointing out the error.

 

What the multiple chipset design will affect likely is battery life, especially if the processor is quad core.

 

AJ

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Since LTE hasn't even been announced for my area, SVLTE does me little good at the moment. So no SVDO=no buy for me. Too bad because I was very interested in this handset at one point. So close LG, but yet so far...

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Judging by the alledged dimensions, the front of the device will be 5.87 inches diagonally. I smell a Note size screen in the works. A screen of that size running IPS technology, I just may dehydrate from drooling.

 

Looks like your going to be disappointed with the screen size (http://www.phonearena.com/news/LG-Eclipse-4G-LTE-blocks-out-the-sun-at-the-FCC-before-moving-on-to-Sprint_id33214), but the rest of the phone sounds awesome, I cant wait to see it... and what a 28nm process will do for the battery life, even though it will be a quad core. I'm hoping that it has a great battery life, but as stated above, the multiple chipset design might negate all the benefit...

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Don't get too caught up on the modem not being on the chip. The shrink in size is huge... think of it like this:

 

OG Evo 4G: 65nm CPU/65nm baseband. 4-5hours battery heavy use.

OG Epic 4G 45nm CPU/65nm baseband, 5 hours battery heavy use.

Epic Touch 32nm dual core CPU/65nm baseband, 6 hours battery heavy use

Razr LTE 45nm dual core CPU/45nm baseband, 6 hours battery heavy use

Galazy S3/Evo LTE 28nm dual core CPU/28nm baseband same chip, 8-9 hours

 

The older phones almost all used the Broadcom BCM4329 65nm baseband, and battery life got better with CPU die shrinks (partially offset by the change to dual cores). Especially interesting was the RAZR I had, it had a worse CPU die size, but smaller baseband, and was nearly identical to the more efficient CPU in the epic touch with bad basebane. FWIW... when I turned WiMax off on the Epic Touch, battery life was REALLY good (like 10 hours), vs LTE off on the Razr didn't help as much. The fact that the Galaxy S3 is so good isn't just that the modem is on the same chip, but the modem is ALSO 28nm. Whether or not it's on the same chip with the CPU or not I feel will make less difference than the die shink to 28nm, so the LG phone will do great. It will be hurt by the quad core too though, but I would expect battery life between the GS2 and GS3 with a good battery (2000+mah). Just my $0.02

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The older phones almost all used the Broadcom BCM4329 65nm baseband...

 

Thanks for the comment. But you seem to be confusing Wi-Fi basebands with cellular basebands. The Broadcom chipset is just a Wi-Fi baseband, so its effect on the handsets in question is minimal, and all have other cellular basebands. The EVO LTE and Galaxy S3 take matters to the extreme, as they incorporate processor, cellular, Wi-Fi, and GNSS baseband all on the 28 nm Qualcomm MSM8960.

 

Whether or not it's on the same chip with the CPU or not I feel will make less difference than the die shink to 28nm, so the LG phone will do great. It will be hurt by the quad core too though, but I would expect battery life between the GS2 and GS3 with a good battery (2000+mah). Just my $0.02

 

With all due respect, that seems nothing more than optimistic speculation. At this point, we do not even know what quad core processor the Eclipse will utilize. It could still be the 40 nm Tegra 3. And that could be paired with a 45 nm cellular baseband, possibly even a separate LTE baseband of who knows what nm process.

 

My point is this: do not assert that "the LG phone will do great." The level of info available right now does not support that conclusion.

 

AJ

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My mistake, I thought the broadcom was also used for cellular and not just Wi-Fi. I guess this makes sense, as the gs3 doesn't utilize the on chip Wi-Fi/Bluetooth/fm in the 8960 instead using a separate chip compared to the one x, although this doesn't seem to affect battery much. And I'm almost positive the LG ls970 was confirmed via leaked tech specs to have the apq 8064 with the mdm9615 modem (both 28nm) in July, maybe it's wrong to believe that but from Qualcomm's own timetable it fits well... although all this is speculation at this point still, and my post was all simply based on my experience with those phones and is not in any way scientific.

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Question: So I checked out the bandwidth range of this new quad core and it looks like it will also handle Clearwire's 168 mbps download speed. Is this correct?

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Question: So I checked out the bandwidth range of this new quad core and it looks like it will also handle Clearwire's 168 mbps download speed. Is this correct?

 

No, the quad core processor is irrelevant, as it appears this LG design will utilize separate application processor and modem chipsets. Only the modem, RF transceiver, power amps, and antennas define airlink capabilities.

 

Regardless, the Eclipse will not be compatible with Clearwire's WiMAX network, and no info so far indicates that it will be compatible with Clearwire's forthcoming TD-LTE 2600 network. Do not expect those handsets until next year at the earliest.

 

AJ

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I wonder... with the 800Mhz band and the 850Mhz band being essentially one single band, does it really makes sense to provide two sperate figures for each, particularly since the "extension" of the cellular band to include the SMR band is only 10Mhz? Seems kind of silly that for CDMA operating under ESMR the FCC just doesn't go ahead and count it all as one single band. I can see back in the days when iDEN, with its guard bands and everything that you'd want to separate the two bands, but if you're gonna be deploying the same technology in ESMR as in the cellular band, the FCC should give Sprint a break. That might also convince other carriers to include Sprint's band on their phones and Sprint could generate some roaming revenue from that.

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GoWireless, this is not an FCC issue. The FCC creates different spectrum band plans with different purposes, rules, etc., but the FCC does not create different bands/band classes. Engineering bodies (e.g. 3GPP and 3GPP2) are responsible for those distinctions. And 3GPP is working to consolidate some LTE bands into superset bands. For example, when Sprint deploys LTE 800, it will be band 26, which is a roll up of bands 5, 6, 18, and 19.

 

AJ

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