S4GRU

Robert

Our Sponsor maps show all the Sprint sites on then Network. They also show which sites have been upgraded with what. And the information comes directly from Sprint sources. Robert

Site acceptance reports from Tuesday (11/12): Alabama - 2 updates (LTE) Arkansas - 3 updates (LTE) Atlanta/Athens - 5 updates (3G) Austin - 3 updates (3G) Buffalo - 5 updates (LTE) Boston - 2 updates (3G) Charlotte - 2 updates (3G) Chicago - 2 updates (LTE) Cleveland - 7 updates (3G) Columbus - 3 updates (LTE) DFW - 2 updates (3G) GA/SC Coast - 6 updates (2 LTE) Houston - 11 updates (3G) Jacksonville - 2 updates (3G) Kansas - 7 updates (3G) LA Metro - 1 update (3G) Las Vegas - 1 update (3G) Memphis - 3 updates (1 LTE) Miami/West Palm - 2 updates (LTE) Minnesota - 2 updates (1 LTE) Missouri - 1 update (LTE) Nashville - 17 updates (16 LTE) Northern Jersey - 2 updates (3G) North Wisconsin - 3 updates (LTE) Orange County - 1 update (3G) Oregon/SW Washington - 3 updates (3G) Orlando - 1 update (3G) Philadelphia Metro - 1 update (3G) Phoenix - 1 update (3G) San Diego - 3 updates (3G) South Carolina - 2 updates (LTE) Southern Connecticut - 1 update (3G) Southern Jersey - 1 update (3G) South Texas - 1 update (LTE) Tampa - 1 update (3G) Upstate NY Central - 1 update (3G) Upstate NY East - 2 updates (3G) VT/NH/ME - 1 update (3G) Washington DC - 1 update (3G) West Michigan - 3 updates (1 LTE) West Texas - 1 update (LTE) West Washington - 1 update (LTE) Maps are updated. Robert Links: Comments regarding this thread, NV Sites Complete Map

Yes, the HTC One supports SVLTE. Robert

In my experience: Tmo LTE ping: 30-60ms on average Sprint LTE ping: 50-80ms on average ATT LTE ping: 60-90ms on average VZW LTE ping: 80-150ms on average Sprint's average ping is just fine in comparison. And compared to VZW pings I average, it blows it out of the water. But Tmo LTE does consistently have the best pings I've ever seen. I don't know what VZW does to its LTE network, but it impacts their pings. And they fluctuate wildly. And if I go to my VZW hotspot, the pings will vary from 100ms to 300ms!!! More than any other LTE hotspot than the other carriers. Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

I'm glad Verizon finally fessed up (sort of) to the bottlenecking I have observed in parts of their LTE network the past year. I have experienced more less than 1Mbps speed tests than greater than 20Mbps. However, they make it sound like it's a few sites in just the largest cities in America. But it's in every state I have used VZW LTE service. Sometimes in small cities. In fact, the worst VZW LTE site I have ever encountered was in Farmington, New Mexico. Here in South Dakota, about 1/3 of the sites bog down below VZW's posted LTE speeds. And two will drop to 1Mbps or less. So this is not just a big city problem. Verizon needs a denser LTE 750 network, and they need Band 4 LTE deployed nationwide. Not just the big cities. If they want to maintain their 70 share in places like Rapid City, they will need to overlay it all. It sounds like VZW is on the case. However, I noticed these strains on their network over a year ago. And it has steadily degraded since even then. Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

Sprint's Triband LTE devices do not support simultaneous voice and data. It is physically impossible with current technology to do so with a single transmission path. Sprint is counting on that people would prefer to have a competitively priced smartphone with better battery life and LTE performance than simulatenous voice and data. Otherwise, Sprint would need to work with OEM's to create a dual path device that supports TDD-LTE. It is possible. But the resulting device would be more expensive than their carrier counterparts and miss the battery savings and better LTE performance with weaker signals. Sprint is betting the farm that SVLTE is not a big deal for its customers. We will see how this pans out. And as people use voice less and less, it may become a non issue. I personally rarely use voice anymore except to talk to old people, like my parents. I don't even talk to my boss on the phone hardly ever. Simultaneous voice and data will likely return to Sprint smartphones with VoLTE. Which is probably at least 18 months out. Robert

The other bands are not active by default. The issue is not because of other bands, it is because CDMA and LTE use the same transmission path. They cannot run together at the same time. CSFB is required on the network in order for these devices to work properly. Robert

We have not heard anything more recently. It is possible that they will deploy 3MHz Band 26 LTE. Which would run much better than even well performing 3G. But Birmingham will not be an early adopter of Band 41. It is likely your area will receive 3MHz Band 26 and even Band 41 in some areas in less than the next 2 years. So if you really want a new device, a Triband would still be a good option. And it will allow you to use more bands when you travel. However, if you really want a specific single band LTE device, then it would not be the end of the world considering where you live. Also note though that Triband LTE devices have noticeably better performance on Band 25 than single band devices. I'm not sure if that is important to you though. Just food for thought. Robert

That 10% are people who live or go to places that will not have any Band 26 or Band 41 LTE within the next 9 months. Rural places in the South and along the international borders are largely that 10%, However, most of these places will get Band 41 eventually, just in a period beyond the next 9 months. Robert

Yes, the CSFB issue will lessen every day as more sites are able to have the Triband LTE devices connected to them are able to pass through onto the CSFB capable network. It will become a non issue pretty quickly. It should all be resolved in 90 days on existing LTE sites. But someone has to be one of those last sites, unfortunately. Robert

Site acceptance reports from Saturday (11/9), Sunday (11/10) and Monday (11/11): Alabama - 3 updates (LTE) Albuquerque - 1 update (LTE) Arkansas - 1 update (LTE) Atlanta/Athens - 3 updates (1 LTE) Austin - 1 update (LTE) Baltimore - 1 update (LTE) Buffalo - 3 updates (LTE) Boston - 7 updates (5 LTE) Central Illinois - 4 updates (LTE) Central Pennsylvania - 1 updates (3G) Charlotte - 107 updates (3G) Chicago - 2 updates (LTE) Cincinnati - 1 update (LTE) Columbus - 1 updates (3G) Dakotas - 2 updates (LTE) Delaware - 1 update (LTE) DFW - 8 updates (3 LTE) East Iowa - 3 updates (LTE) East Kentucky - 1 update (LTE) East Michigan - 6 updates (5 LTE) East Texas - 3 updates (2 LTE) GA/SC Coast - 3 updates (3G) Gulf Coast - 8 updates (6 LTE) Houston - 11 updates (1 LTE) Idaho - 1 update (LTE) Jacksonville - 4 updates (LTE) Kansas - 6 updates (1 LTE) LA Metro - 5 updates (1 LTE) Las Vegas - 3 updates (3G) Long Island - 4 updates (LTE) Louisiana - 2 updates (LTE) Memphis - 6 updates (4 LTE) Miami/West Palm - 3 updates (1 LTE) Milwaukee - 5 updates (LTE) Minnesota - 4 updates (3G) Mississippi - 1 update (LTE) Missouri - 8 updates (LTE) Myrtle Beach - 7 updates (3 LTE) Nashville - 9 updates (LTE) New Orleans - 1 update (LTE) New York City - 7 updates (4 LTE) Norfolk - 2 updates (1 LTE) Northern Jersey - 4 updates (2 LTE) Oklahoma - 1 update (LTE) Orange County - 4 updates (LTE) Orlando - 7 updates (7 LTE) Philadelphia Metro - 6 updates (5 LTE) Phoenix - 8 updates (2 LTE) Providence - 1 update (LTE) Riverside/San Bernardino - 4 updates (LTE) Rochester - 4 updates (LTE) San Diego - 5 updates (4 LTE) South Carolina - 6 updates (4 LTE) Southern Jersey - 2 updates (1 LTE) South Texas - 4 updates (LTE) Tampa - 1 update (LTE) The Panhandle - 1 update (LTE) Tucson/Yuma - 3 updates (LTE) Upstate NY Central - 3 updates (2 LTE) Upstate NY East - 5 updates (4 LTE) Washington DC - 3 updates (LTE) West Iowa/Nebraska - 8 updates (3G) West Texas - 1 update (LTE) West Washington - 2 updates (LTE) Maps are updated. Charlotte is not a typo. Looks like ALU is making major headway on the CSFB issue in Charlotte. Robert Links: Comments regarding this thread, NV Sites Complete Map

That's ooops on my part. Being fixed now. I know better, thanks for the reminder! Robert

Remember that Sprint has said there will be a software update after the first of the year to enable Band 41. They are blocking it for a reason. This may be why. Anything else before the official update is just gravy for early adopters. Robert

I have created a post in a thread over in the S4GRU Forums that helps explain what is being encountered at certain types of markets: http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/5001-breaking-band-tri-band-lte-ecsfb-issues-thread/?p=237461 Robert

Samsung cannot install CSFB on their inherited systems. The only thing they can do is trudge forward as fast as possible with Network Vision 3G upgrades and get them communicating with the eCSFB network. You may have noticed that Samsung has a huge amount of 3G acceptances lately, and tons of In Progress sites. They are moving faster right now on 3G conversions than I have seen any OEM ever move on a network upgrade. It's quite impressive. Robert

To help clarify the issues for our members...it is not as easy as saying it is an incumbent/non-incumbent market issue. Nor is it an unlaunched/launched market issue. Bottom line is that if your Triband LTE device is not able to connect to CSFB/eCSFB on the Sprint network, your device will park in 3G mode and you will not be able to use LTE without going into LTE Only mode. Here is a break down of issues: Incumbent Markets (markets where the legacy vendor and the Network Vision vendor are the same) Affects most Ericsson markets and Alcatel Lucent markets * Sites with 4G LTE complete and 3G work is complete (green and yellow pins on Sponsor maps) Since the site has had all of the 3G NV hardware installed and operational, most of these should see the Sprint CSFB network. There are places where they cannot, and these are problems on the network side. More MSC's still need upgrades/software updates that will enable eCSFB to be used by your Triband device on the network. Where this is a problem, it can likely be fixed in a few weeks and improvements should be seen rather quickly. * Sites with 4G LTE complete, but 3G work is not complete (purple pins on Sponsor maps) These sites have varying access to CSFB. Most of the Ericsson legacy network has Nortel gear. Ericsson purchased Nortel. Most Nortel gear is capable of supporting CSFB. Sprint and Ericsson are upgrading their MSC's to support a simple CSFB that will allow your Triband devices to work even with legacy 3G. That is why some purple sites are working in Ericsson markets. More and more will come online with these software upgrades. However, in some instances where they cannot install CSFB on legacy equipment, these purple sites will not work until the site also has its 3G side activated (and they become green or yellow pins). This mostly only affects Ericsson markets with purple pins, as Alcatel Lucent markets with LTE only complete are in non-incumbent markets. Non-Incumbent Markets (markets where the legacy vendor and the Network Vision vendor are different) Affects most Samsung markets, a few Alcatel Lucent markets, and a little bit of Ericsson areas * Sites with 4G LTE complete and 3G work is complete (green and yellow pins on Sponsor maps) Since the site has had all of the 3G NV hardware installed and operational, most of these should see the new Sprint eCSFB network. There are places where they cannot, and these are problems on the network side. More MSC's still need upgrades/software updates that will enable eCSFB to be used by your Triband device. Where this is a problem, it can likely be fixed in a few weeks and improvements should be seen rather quickly. This is the issue in the Shentel affiliate market. * Sites with 4G LTE complete, but 3G work is not complete (purple pins on Sponsor maps) These sites cannot access CSFB/eCSFB on the Sprint network. Since these sites do not have legacy equipment that can be upgraded to CSFB, these sites will not be able to connect to CSFB until the site is live with Network Vision 3G upgrades (and they become green or yellow pins). This mostly only affects Samsung markets with purple pins, as Alcatel Lucent tends to bring up the 3G side either before LTE or with LTE (except in North Carolina and Norfolk markets). Here is a link to a thread about Legacy/Network Vision vendors by market: http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/2120-listing-of-legacy-vendorsnetwork-vision-vendors-by-market/ Robert

It is because Ericsson is installing CSFB on their legacy Nortel systems. They have eCSFB on their NV networks is my understanding. Samsung cannot install CSFB on legacy systems they inherited, and thus they are only installing eCSFB on their new NV network. With Alcatel Lucent, they have no 4G only sites, therefore all of their LTE sites are capable of eCSFB from the get go. Hope this helps clear up any confusion. Robert

You have been upgraded. Thanks for supporting S4GRU. Robert

Also note that some incumbent markets are having issues with CSFB. And more work is needed on the network side for CSFB to fully operate correctly. That's why I specifically omitted the description of incumbent and non-incumbent from the article. It is not a perfect indicator. But incumbent markets (where the legacy OEM and Network Vision OEM are the same) should be fixed sooner than non-incumbent markets. Some have been fixed already. Robert

Sprint says they will not likely launch markets any longer until the LTE sites in that market largely support CSFB. So this should not be an issue for you. And Sprint Triband LTE devices will even be able to use LTE sites around MKE early before launch when the complete LTE sites become capable of using CSFB on the Sprint network. Robert

Just a reminder to everyone. The rules for comments are the same as the forums. We will not allow this thread to become a bastion for people to bash Sprint. If you have questions, or comments that will further the dialog of the issue at hand, feel free to post them. If you are not a S4GRU member, but wanting to join just to post a Sprint bashing comment, I wouldn't bother signing up. S4GRU is a site of wireless enthusiasts (and member sponsored) who come together to have meaningful discussions about wireless network technology and devices. Uncritical negativity just distracts a from meaningful dialog that our members appreciate. If you want a place to go air your grievances about Sprint, there are dozens of places to go complain online, including Sprint's official forums. We do not host Sprint complaints. Robert

Yes, Sprint knew about it in advance. They have been scrambling to get the upgrades done with their OEM's. And it's likely why they put off releasing Triband devices until Google started selling theirs. They have upgraded thousands of sites to CSFB in the past few months and that aggressive roll out continues. Unfortunately, there is no easy way out except to get CSFB operational on the 3G side of every active LTE site. Sprint cares, but Network Vision is behind schedule. They had a choice. Delay the devices until CSFB was active everywhere or hurt the experience for early adopters of Triband devices. They tried a hybrid...delay the devices as long as feasible. As noted in the article, the number of sites impacted will dwindle every day until none are impacted in a few months. Those who are pissed have options. Sprint allows a device to be returned within 14 days of activation. Early adopters who cannot bear waiting for CSFB to be active in their LTE coverage area can return their devices and go along their merry way. No need to feel forced into a situation when you have options. Robert

Yes, this is an issue of all Triband devices, as they are dependent on CSFB to be present on the Sprint network in order to be able to use LTE. The article specifically calls out the G2 and N5 because those are the devices that people are currently having problems with and will be searching for. The problem is not Triband LTE devices, but rather that the Sprint network is not currently upgraded enough in all places that currently have LTE. Robert

The iPhones are neither Triband nor SVLTE. They are capable of using CFSB,and use that feature on WCDMA networks. However, they do not use CSFB on the Sprint network as far as I know. But please understand that CSFB is not a device feature, but rather a network feature. It's just that a device transmission path design would necessitate its use. The iPhone 5S and 5C are only dual band LTE on the Sprint network. But that probably explains why Apple chose to omot the third band and go the route of their devices using CSFB on the Sprint network. The new iPhones are the same as the older single band iPhone 5 on the Sprint network, just with one more additional LTE band. They do not support SVLTE. I do not have enough understanding of Apple devices to explain why. Robert