Verizon shrinking coverage in Maine.

[danlodish345]

Hey guys I was browsing one of my news applications and I found interesting article about Verizon Wireless in Maine I'm sharing the link.

http://wcyy.com/verizon-is-dumping-an-entire-chunk-of-maine-from-their-wireless-network/

Tell me what you think.

[swintec]

saw this as well in a local maine group.  not really sure why they are doing this.  i dont believe it was some sort of lease agreement or anything with a third party.  make sense to anyone else?

[Arysyn]

Wow!

I could see this happening if it were landline service Verizon was dumping, but wireless service?

Is this what Verizon is going to do next where if they aren't making enough money in an area, they just decide to drop coverage, regardless of other issues, such as who may travel through the area, or what other carriers might say about this to tease and taunt Verizon over this?

This is one issue I'd actually love to hear John Legere's reaction too, and Marcelo's as well. I'll go look at their Twitter accounts.

[SuzieTuesday]

Pretty sure Verizon isn't "shrinking coverage".  Since July or so, letters have been going out to customers who are using significant amounts of data while roaming off the Verizon network.

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1899159-Verizon-sending-letters-to-LTE-in-Rural-America-users-concerning-termination-(letter

[Arysyn]

2 minutes ago, SuzieTuesday said:

Pretty sure Verizon isn't "shrinking coverage".  Since July or so, letters have been going out to customers who are using significant amounts of data while roaming off the Verizon network.

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1899159-Verizon-sending-letters-to-LTE-in-Rural-America-users-concerning-termination-(letter

It seems these are two separate issues though. The news link in Dan's post clearly says Verizon is cutting coverage in Maine.

[SuzieTuesday]

Just now, Arysyn said:

It seems these are two separate issues though. The news link in Dan's post clearly says Verizon is cutting coverage in Maine.

Could be.  But Dan's post quotes this as a source:  https://www.facebook.com/machiasnews/

[Arysyn]

1 minute ago, SuzieTuesday said:

Could be.  But Dan's post quotes this as a source:  https://www.facebook.com/machiasnews/

Hmm...

Dan likely will respond sometime soon to address what he found. I personally don't like all this local partner business in wireless, regardless of the carrier. I'd prefer the national carriers owned the entirety of their networks, only to make contracts on their towers (ie., leasing towers from Crown Castle, etc., and roaming agreements between carriers). Also, there ought to be some regulation in place restricting national carriers from being able to cut coverage. If it turns out this is what Verizon is doing, regardless if there is some other local company/cooperative involved, then the other carriers ought to condemn this on principle of forcing out customers.

I wonder what is going to happen now that contracts generally are not being offered and people have monthly payments in to the carriers for device installments. It isn't always the case they can take their Verizon devices over to T-Mobile, etc. I'm sure the other carriers in the area would love to add these customers on their network, but what about the costs involved forcing these people to switch, and will the other carriers necessarily cover all of that extra cost.

[SuzieTuesday]

2 minutes ago, Arysyn said:

I wonder what is going to happen now that contracts generally are not being offered and people have monthly payments in to the carriers for device installments...

From the Verizon letter: "To make your transition easier, any outstanding Device Payment Plan balance for devices purchased prior to September 12, 2017 will be waived no later than October 31, 2017".

[Arysyn]

4 minutes ago, SuzieTuesday said:

From the Verizon letter: "To make your transition easier, any outstanding Device Payment Plan balance for devices purchased prior to September 12, 2017 will be waived no later than October 31, 2017".

That probably is to individual users being cut off, but in case of Dan's post - if Verizon is cutting coverage, then there is a potential loophole around this Verizon could use.

Verizon could claim that since their network still technically is national, and it isn't as if they are "restricting" service to people residing in areas where their coverage is being cut, they merely are just "limiting their coverage. If these were the old local plans as Verizon offered several years ago and people in these areas were under contract, they could fight Verizon on this much more easily they they can now. Unless their are laws relating to area codes or some other laws I'm unaware of, this could be difficult for other customers to fight.

[Arysyn]

1 hour ago, danlodish345 said:

Hey guys I was browsing one of my news applications and I found interesting article about Verizon Wireless in Maine I'm sharing the link.

http://wcyy.com/verizon-is-dumping-an-entire-chunk-of-maine-from-their-wireless-network/

Tell me what you think.

Dan, I mean what I'm about to say with respect, no offense intended.

This is why cutting customers for any reason isn't necessarily a good thing. Remember the debate from a while back some of us here on S4GRU had regarding cutting customers for data abuse? The problem with allowing that may leak itself into allowing carriers the right to cut customers' service for other reasons, even cutting coverage then doing nothing for them, or possibly picking and choosing which customers the carrier feels deserves refund on device purchases, etc based on remaining monthly payments, leases or whatever.

This is why there needs to be some balance between carrier and customer rights, even for issues such as data abuse. Otherwise, carriers very well may get greedier than ever arbitrarily cutting service, coverage, etc. This even makes me understand those who debate me about carrier consolidation issues, which I understand this as a disadvantage to mergers and why there needs to be regulatory consumer protections in place for that, and even now.

[WiseGuy321]

57 minutes ago, Arysyn said:

This is one issue I'd actually love to hear John Legere's reaction too, and Marcelo's as well. I'll go look at their Twitter accounts.

Well, neither of them cover that part of Maine, so it wouldn't make sense for them to have a reaction.

Maine is an odd state. Verizon/AT&T/Sprint/T-Mobile all strategically don't deploy service in parts of the state. T-Mobile says they will blanket the state with 600, but I'll believe it when I see it...

Edited September 12, 2017 by WiseGuy321

[WiseGuy321]

This is interesting. The only two carriers in that area are USCC and Verizon. Maybe this foreshadows an upcoming roaming agreement between Verizon and USCC?

[Arysyn]

Just now, WiseGuy321 said:

This is interesting. The only two carriers in that area are USCC and Verizon. Maybe this foreshadows an upcoming roaming agreement between Verizon and USCC?

It would be amusing if Verizon were to announce purchasing USCC. That is one company that no matter what cutbacks USCC makes, they never seem to be involved in a merger attempt.

[S4GRU]

When I go to the source and read their Facebook posts, I can see how all of this could be a misunderstanding.  Although it may very well be true that Verizon is pulling out of Washington County, Maine, I can also read all of the official correspondence only to refer to abusers being thrown off and the Machias Valley News confusing what it means.

From reading details, Verizon confirmed to the local news that they are sending notices to 30k-40k customers nationwide.  Not necessarily to 30k-40k customers in Washington County.  Some VZW customers claim not to receive notices.  The local company that built out the network says they know nothing about it and only commented on what the local news was reporting.  This all could be a big misunderstanding.

If it turns out Verizon is not actually shutting down the network there, then this makes this whole thing even more interesting.

Robert

[Arysyn]

5 minutes ago, WiseGuy321 said:

Well, neither of them cover that part of Maine, so it wouldn't make sense for them to have a reaction.

Maine is an odd state. Verizon/AT&T/Sprint/T-Mobile all strategically don't deploy service in parts of the state. T-Mobile says they will blanket the state with 600, but I'll believe it when I see it...

Maine doesn't even get very good broadband internet options either. I once considered moving to Maine, checked the internet options in both Bangor and Portland areas, wasn't impressed at all. They really need more high-tech there.

[Arysyn]

1 minute ago, S4GRU said:

When I go to the source and read their Facebook posts, I can see how all of this could be a misunderstanding.  Although it may be true that Verizon is pulling out of Washington County, Maine, I can also read all of the official correspondence only to refer to abusers being thrown off and the Machias Valley News confusing what it means.

From reading details, Verizon confirmed to the local news that they are sending notices to 30k-40k customers.  Not necessarily to 30k-40k customers in Washington County.  The local company that built out the network says they know nothing about it and only commented on what the local news was reporting.  This all could be a big misunderstanding.

If it turns out Verizon is not actually shutting down the network there, then this makes this whole thing even more interesting.

Robert

Then again, they may be abusing their Verizon data, because there are such limited data options there.

Not to say that it is a good excuse, but still one nonetheless. Many news articles I've read of areas with limited data service options almost seem to give permission to people in these areas to abuse wireless data, when they write about how the companies are forcing them onto wireless.

[gusherb]

16 minutes ago, S4GRU said:

When I go to the source and read their Facebook posts, I can see how all of this could be a misunderstanding.  Although it may very well be true that Verizon is pulling out of Washington County, Maine, I can also read all of the official correspondence only to refer to abusers being thrown off and the Machias Valley News confusing what it means.

From reading details, Verizon confirmed to the local news that they are sending notices to 30k-40k customers nationwide.  Not necessarily to 30k-40k customers in Washington County.  Some VZW customers claim not to receive notices.  The local company that built out the network says they know nothing about it and only commented on what the local news was reporting.  This all could be a big misunderstanding.

If it turns out Verizon is not actually shutting down the network there, then this makes this whole thing even more interesting.

Robert

I think ultimately they're booting everyone. Not very high data users are getting the letters too. I don't think they're killing any partnerships (at least not yet), but are considering LRA area's domestic roaming now and will probably throttle all domestic roaming to 2G speeds as has been worded into Unlimited since it was released in February.

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1899159-Verizon-sending-letters-to-LTE-in-Rural-America-users-concerning-termination-(letter?p=16901393#post16901393

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1899159-Verizon-sending-letters-to-LTE-in-Rural-America-users-concerning-termination-(letter?p=16901571#post16901571

[S4GRU]

12 minutes ago, gusherb said:

I think ultimately they're booting everyone. Not very high data users are getting the letters too. I don't think they're killing any partnerships (at least not yet), but are considering LRA area's domestic roaming now and will probably throttle all domestic roaming to 2G speeds as has been worded into Unlimited since it was released in February.

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1899159-Verizon-sending-letters-to-LTE-in-Rural-America-users-concerning-termination-(letter?p=16901393#post16901393

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1899159-Verizon-sending-letters-to-LTE-in-Rural-America-users-concerning-termination-(letter?p=16901571#post16901571

Wow.  Seems extreme.  LTEiRA as domestic roaming?  That would not be a good move for Verizon 

[Arysyn]

12 minutes ago, gusherb said:

I think ultimately they're booting everyone. Not very high data users are getting the letters too. I don't think they're killing any partnerships (at least not yet), but are considering LRA area's domestic roaming now and will probably throttle all domestic roaming to 2G speeds as has been worded into Unlimited since it was released in February.

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1899159-Verizon-sending-letters-to-LTE-in-Rural-America-users-concerning-termination-(letter?p=16901393#post16901393

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1899159-Verizon-sending-letters-to-LTE-in-Rural-America-users-concerning-termination-(letter?p=16901571#post16901571

I'm glad ultimately I decided not to go back to Verizon. Otherwise I'd be stuck with 720p resolution paying $30 or $40 more per month than T-Mobile, where I get full HD and even 1440p. Plus, not supporting a company that would do this to their customers in Maine is a reason for me not to be with Verizon.

As much I think John Legere can be a jerk, even he wouldn't do this, or if he had to, he'd do alot more for these customers than Verizon would.

[WiWavelength]

I side with VZW on this one.  Perma roaming on LTEiRA partners is not okay.  Those subs should be signed up directly with the LTEiRA partners that they are using nearly 100 percent of the time.

AJ

[Mr.Nuke]

8 minutes ago, WiWavelength said:

I side with VZW on this one.  Perma roaming on LTEiRA partners is not okay.  Those subs should be signed up directly with the LTEiRA partners that they are using nearly 100 percent of the time.

AJ

I'm with you, but this Maine one is a bit odd in so far that I can tell the partner doesn't provide or sell any native service of their own.

[WiWavelength]

Could the Maine LTEiRA partner then be the one ultimately ceasing operations?  Bankruptcy, perhaps.

AJ

[gusherb]

51 minutes ago, S4GRU said:

Wow.  Seems extreme.  LTEiRA as domestic roaming?  That would not be a good move for Verizon 

Have a look at their coverage maps. They just changed it recently to show all LRA coverage as Extended coverage. They've definitely taken the extreme route on this one. 

I think they could've found a way to handle the issue without booting everyone. But maybe not, because the way they setup LRA in the first place would never work in an Unlimited world. If they hadn't made it seem like it was native coverage and let people sign up in these areas in the first place then it would've been fine today. 

[swintec]

21 minutes ago, Mr.Nuke said:

I'm with you, but this Maine one is a bit odd in so far that I can tell the partner doesn't provide or sell any native service of their own.

who is the roaming partner up there though or are we just assuming for now based on the timing of the other lte roaming stuff?

[Mr.Nuke]

31 minutes ago, WiWavelength said:

Could the Maine LTEiRA partner then be the one ultimately ceasing operations?  Bankruptcy, perhaps.

AJ

Based on their statement I don't think so although that ultimately may end up being the case if their agreement is materially altered (which by most accounts it appears it is going to be).

Quote

Downeast customers, network operator blindsided by Verizon withdrawal

Verizon Wireless sends subscription termination notices to customers without warning

PORTLAND, MAINE (September 12, 2017) – Verizon Wireless customers in Washington County were blindsided this week when the company mailed them subscription termination notices.

Wireless Partners, built and operates a state of the art 4G LTE VoLTE wireless network for the benefit of Verizon Wireless and its customers in Washington and East Hancock counties in Maine and Coos County in New Hampshire. Wireless Partners was made aware of the Verizon customer termination letters not by Verizon Wireless, but by concerned customers in receipt of the notification. In response, Bob Parsloe, CEO of Wireless Partners, issued the following statement:

“Access to 4G LTE is an essential 21st century infrastructure need and it is the mission of Wireless Partners to meet that need in rural, underserved areas of Maine and New Hampshire. To that end, Wireless Partners built, owns, operates, and is expanding a Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network in Downeast Maine. Along with our network users, we were blindsided to learn that Verizon Wireless mailed subscription cancellation notices to their customers on this network.

“Wireless Partners was not given advance warning that Verizon Wireless was planning to restrict new customers nor terminate existing customers. We were only made aware of this development from concerned Verizon Wireless customers who were in receipt of the cancellation notification.

“Verizon Wireless did ask Wireless Partners to assist them in reducing the contractually agreed costs of using our networks. Wireless Partners promptly informed Verizon that it was ready to address their concerns. At no point during this dialogue, which continues in earnest, did Verizon Wireless indicate to us their intent to restrict new customers and cancel current customers.

“We have received overwhelming support from every community in which we have made 4G LTE service a reality. However, Verizon Wireless’ recent actions have turned that exuberance into significant concern among business owners, public safety officials, and everyday consumers for whom this is their sole means of cellular voice and broadband internet service.

“In respect of our mission, our network users, and the potentially devastating public safety and economic development consequences, we will exhaust every effort to cause Verizon Wireless to rethink this extremely consequential decision and to honor the promise of its LRA program. We are hopeful that a resolution is achievable and that this critical infrastructure will remain in service.”