Snapdragon 801 and eCSFB

[jonathanlc2005]

So i wanted to ask... i noticed when i owned the nexus 5 for a brief period... that data while calling didnt work, but now with snapdragon 801 it has cat 4 LTE and VoLTE possibilities...

 

so... with the samsung s5... does this mean data while calling?

 

also... is there any significant difference between cat 4 and cat 3 LTE?

[david279]

No data and voice on voLTE till the network rolls it out.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

 

[Destroyallcubes]

There is no more simultaneously using data and voice on triband devices. It is possible in single band phones. If you need both voice and data at the same time I'd stay single band.

[WiWavelength]

And the MSM8974 in the Nexus 5 is already a Category 4 baseband.

 

AJ

[gnoj]

I thought the SD 801 was just a binned SD 800 that has been given a higher stock clock? I haven't seen much information re support of VoLTE in UE, but I don't see why current LTE devices couldn't receive an update to support it once providers begin to deploy it.

 

VoLTE through Sprint is still at least a couple of years off. As Jeremy mentioned, if you need simultaneous voice and data, stick with a single-band LTE device (as I'm doing), use VoIP over WiFi (through a hotspot if necessary), or switch to any of the other carriers.

[MrZorbatron]

There is no more simultaneously using data and voice on triband devices. It is possible in single band phones. If you need both voice and data at the same time I'd stay single band.

I can't wait until they get their heads on straight and do it like the GS3 was.  There's a 1x T/R path and a data T/R path.  The data T/R path can be either LTE or EVDO.  I don't get why the Note 2 isn't the same, it has a CDMA path and LTE path.  Dumb because theoretically it could be on EVDO and LTE at the same time, even though the firmware would never allow it.

 

There's no reason you can't have a multiband data side with the same arrangement of separate 1x.

[gnoj]

I can't wait until they get their heads on straight and do it like the GS3 was.  There's a 1x T/R path and a data T/R path.  The data T/R path can be either LTE or EVDO.  I don't get why the Note 2 isn't the same, it has a CDMA path and LTE path.  Dumb because theoretically it could be on EVDO and LTE at the same time, even though the firmware would never allow it.

 

There's no reason you can't have a multiband data side with the same arrangement of separate 1x.

 

It's not an issue of space either, since they were apparently able to fit in a second WiFi antenna into the GS5. That extra antenna is nice, but I think a separate path for data makes much more sense until VoLTE is deployed and enabled.

[MrZorbatron]

It's not a issue of space either, since they were apparently able to fit in a second WiFi antenna into the GS5. That extra antenna is nice, but I think a separate path for data makes much more sense until VoLTE is deployed and enabled.

It's never a space issue, especially with how much larger phones are getting.  It would only be a space issue if they had to put a dozen antennas in it.  Anyway, having additional antennas is good for reception.  Sprint's BS line about improving range and cell's edge performance is a complete crock to anyone who understands radio.  They posed is as if a single larger antenna is less effective than several smaller, which isn't true.  Different bands require different antenna tuning.  Varying lengths and shapes of elements is much more effective than electronic tuning, even though some electronic lengthening (adding inductance) will still be required for 800MHz in any instance.  Either way, I would rather see separate antennas for voice and date even if they both require electronic tuning.  Losing the feature is a HUGE headache for me.

 

I also do not believe the battery life difference to be that significant, since you could still user CSFB with it in so-enabled areas.  Just put the CDMA 1x radio to sleep and wake it up when signaled over LTE that you have a call.  It wouldn't be any different than changing one radio to another band or technology.  For greater on-call battery savings, make the simultaneous voice/data a selectable option so it would put the data radio to sleep while on a call if it was disabled.

 

Being that I am in Eastern Michigan and not a particularly heavy data user, there is very little benefit to me in having anything but a single band device, so I will just ride that one as far as I can for now.  I use data for professional purposes, so while additional speed is nice, it isn't extremely important.  I used to do ordering over the old Sprint network, even in the middle of nowhere when I practically had to climb to the roof somewhere to grab 1x, or god forbid Verizon 1x roaming, and had a pretty easy time with it.

 

Incidentally, I seriously believe that Verizon significantly degrades Sprint users' 1x roaming speeds.  When I was up north a few months ago, I got WAY better speed on Sprint 1x on the absolute ragged edge of the cell where I had to be careful how I held my GS3, than when I was roaming on Verizon with 3-4 bars.

[Destroyallcubes]

It's not a issue of space either, since they were apparently able to fit in a second WiFi antenna into the GS5. That extra antenna is nice, but I think a separate path for data makes much more sense until VoLTE is deployed and enabled.

I think there is plenty reason they don't. I'm not the most up to date with it but having two pathways might be more expensive and Would require the re "enginerring" of devices and how they are designed. I wouldn't want to pay anymore than I do now. But if it was the same price then it would just be a plus. But as of now you can keep SVLTE but be stuck on b25, or get tri-band, with no SVLTE.

[jonathanlc2005]

what about cat 3 vs cat 4? the reason i ask is because i dont know if it will make a difference when it comes to upgraded speeds in the future.

 

my s4 broke and using my photon till insurance reinburses me... but i dont know if i should go s5 or lg g2.

 

i liked the nexus but the battery life wasnt what i hoped for.

Edited February 27, 2014 by jonathanlc2005

[themuffinman]

what about cat 3 vs cat 4? the reason i ask is because i dont know if it will make a difference when it comes to upgraded speeds in the future.

 

my s4 broke and using my photon till insurance reinburses me... but i dont know if i should go s5 or lg g2.

 

i liked the nexus but the battery life wasnt what i hoped for.

You can easily get a brand new lg g2 on ebay for well under $300 but if you gonna use an upgrade then I would say just get the gs5.

 

Edit:  Actually, upgrade or not, I would still get the g2 over the s5.  Overall I still think the g2 is a better device even being several months older than the gs5.  Its just that I wouldn't waste an upgrade on a g2 being that you can get brand new ones at reasonable prices.

[WiWavelength]

Sprint's BS line about improving range and cell's edge performance is a complete crock to anyone who understands radio.

 

Oh, come on.  That sounds more like a typical wounded, emotional reaction to the disappearance of SVLTE than any reasoned analysis.  You need to substantiate that before you make such a cockamamie accusation.  It is not just a Sprint "BS" line -- it is an engineering line that single radio devices perform better.

 

Now, one reason for that could be largely, even exclusively Sprint specific because Sprint is running CDMA2000 and LTE in the same PCS 1900 MHz band.  Off the top of my head, I can think of no other operator in the world running CDMA2000 and LTE in the same frequency band.  So, for SVLTE devices, that presents a filter challenge.  Both of the two separate radio paths are transmitting/receiving at similar PCS frequencies, and they are only centimeters, even millimeters apart inside the handset.  Keeping CDMA1X 1900 from interfering with LTE 1900 and vice versa becomes a challenge or a shortcoming of SVLTE devices.

 

AJ

[MrZorbatron]

Oh, come on. That sounds more like a typical wounded, emotional reaction to the disappearance of SVLTE than any reasoned analysis. You need to substantiate that before you make such a cockamamie accusation. It is not just a Sprint "BS" line -- it is an engineering line that single radio devices perform better.

 

Now, one reason for that could be largely, even exclusively Sprint specific because Sprint is running CDMA2000 and LTE in the same PCS 1900 MHz band. Off the top of my head, I can think of no other operator in the world running CDMA2000 and LTE in the same frequency band. So, for SVLTE devices, that presents a filter challenge. Both of the two separate radio paths are transmitting/receiving at similar PCS frequencies, and they are only centimeters, even millimeters apart inside the handset. Keeping CDMA1X 1900 from interfering with LTE 1900 and vice versa becomes a challenge or a shortcoming of SVLTE devices.

 

AJ

Filtering is a concern, but somewhat lessened on modern hardware with essentially software defined radios. Selectivity As hugely better than it was even just a couple years ago. additionally, the benefit of improved antenna tuning should easily overcome any reduction in performance from additional filtering.

 

Further, SVLTE between bands would not interfere. It should be possible in not now then soon to use a true multi mode multi frequency radio. The RRUs use them.

[hoagie]

Best modem or SDR in the world is not going to work if it is getting interfered with by a powerful in band signal in the same handset.

[chgoguy80]

Oh, come on.  That sounds more like a typical wounded, emotional reaction to the disappearance of SVLTE than any reasoned analysis.  You need to substantiate that before you make such a cockamamie accusation.  It is not just a Sprint "BS" line -- it is an engineering line that single radio devices perform better.

 

Now, one reason for that could be largely, even exclusively Sprint specific because Sprint is running CDMA2000 and LTE in the same PCS 1900 MHz band.  Off the top of my head, I can think of no other operator in the world running CDMA2000 and LTE in the same frequency band.  So, for SVLTE devices, that presents a filter challenge.  Both of the two separate radio paths are transmitting/receiving at similar PCS frequencies, and they are only centimeters, even millimeters apart inside the handset.  Keeping CDMA1X 1900 from interfering with LTE 1900 and vice versa becomes a challenge or a shortcoming of SVLTE devices.

 

AJ

 

But if thats the case in a triband phone wouldn't it be easier to handle than on a single band hone since during a call say 1900, just have the phone use LTE band 41 or fallback to 800Mhtz for LTE to preserve SVLTE (while not causing 1900 issues)?

[hescominsoon]

svlte is a non-issue.  I have an ecfb device.  Let me tell you unless you are trying to watch video and be on the phone at the same time there's no difference with an ecsfb device.  The battery life is also much better due to not having to run as many radios at once.  As much as i loved svlte or even svevdo ecsfb makes it a wash.  Even if you don't have ecsfb the sv(insert type here) isn't that big of a deal.  It really does help with battery life and i can tell you as a ham having all of these paths inside already..it's hard enough to not have them interfere with each other...sv(whatever) just makes it worse by either adding more signal paths(which introduces crosstalk) or having to shift between signal paths. Wiwavelength has this exactly right.  SDR has nothing to do with not having crosstalk between the signal paths..wiwavelength is absolutely correct and it's not a Sprint BS thing either.

[n9ovreric]

svlte is a non-issue. I have an ecfb device. Let me tell you unless you are trying to watch video and be on the phone at the same time there's no difference with an ecsfb device. The battery life is also much better due to not having to run as many radios at once. As much as i loved svlte or even svevdo ecsfb makes it a wash. Even if you don't have ecsfb the sv(insert type here) isn't that big of a deal. It really does help with battery life and i can tell you as a ham having all of these paths inside already..it's hard enough to not have them interfere with each other...sv(whatever) just makes it worse by either adding more signal paths(which introduces crosstalk) or having to shift between signal paths. Wiwavelength has this exactly right. SDR has nothing to do with not having crosstalk between the signal paths..wiwavelength is absolutely correct and it's not a Sprint BS thing either.

qrz!

 

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[MrZorbatron]

Best modem or SDR in the world is not going to work if it is getting interfered with by a powerful in band signal in the same handset.

Yes and no.  It works now on SVLTE and SVDO devices.  It would still work on a tri band device at least as well as today, and probably better because they could be on different bands.  There are other options, too.  They could require the data and voice be on different bands, say use 2500MHz or throttled 800MHz LTE while on a PCS voice call.

 

Be careful with what you're calling in-band.  It is very easy to tune the selectivity of a radio.  We do it all the time on HF (Shortwave) radio on extremely closely spaced, very narrow, often SSB frequencies, running many times more power than a phone does.  I know that there are plenty of issues there still, but it is doable.

 

Either way, we have this crosstalk potential on SVwhatever devices now, but tri-band devices have yet to show any significant signal performance improvements.  I can tell you from experience that on PCS, the Nexus 5 doesn't have any improvement that I can see when compared to a Galaxy S 3 or Note 2.  I know because I have a friend with one and it is no better than mine.

[MrZorbatron]

svlte is a non-issue.  I have an ecfb device.  Let me tell you unless you are trying to watch video and be on the phone at the same time there's no difference with an ecsfb device.  The battery life is also much better due to not having to run as many radios at once.  As much as i loved svlte or even svevdo ecsfb makes it a wash.  Even if you don't have ecsfb the sv(insert type here) isn't that big of a deal.  It really does help with battery life and i can tell you as a ham having all of these paths inside already..it's hard enough to not have them interfere with each other...sv(whatever) just makes it worse by either adding more signal paths(which introduces crosstalk) or having to shift between signal paths. Wiwavelength has this exactly right.  SDR has nothing to do with not having crosstalk between the signal paths..wiwavelength is absolutely correct and it's not a Sprint BS thing either.

I make parts orders all the time over the phone while looking at things online.  This means I will need a mobile hotspot or something now.

[n9ovreric]

Yes and no. It works now on SVLTE and SVDO devices. It would still work on a tri band device at least as well as today, and probably better because they could be on different bands. There are other options, too. They could require the data and voice be on different bands, say use 2500MHz or throttled 800MHz LTE while on a PCS voice call.

 

Be careful with what you're calling in-band. It is very easy to tune the selectivity of a radio. We do it all the time on HF (Shortwave) radio on extremely closely spaced, very narrow, often SSB frequencies, running many times more power than a phone does. I know that there are plenty of issues there still, but it is doable.

 

Either way, we have this crosstalk potential on SVwhatever devices now, but tri-band devices have yet to show any significant signal performance improvements. I can tell you from experience that on PCS, the Nexus 5 doesn't have any improvement that I can see when compared to a Galaxy S 3 or Note 2. I know because I have a friend with one and it is no better than mine.

are you a ham radio operator?

 

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[MrZorbatron]

are you a ham radio operator?

 

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

Not presently. Eventually I will pull everything out of the boxes, set up my tower, renew my license, and get back on the air. I just haven't gotten around to it, way too busy since I have been here.

 

Just listening at the moment, Drake R8B with a long wire from end to end of the attic of my ranch style house (102'). Amazing what it picks up, really.

[n9ovreric]

Not presently. Eventually I will pull everything out of the boxes, set up my tower, renew my license, and get back on the air. I just haven't gotten around to it, way too busy since I have been here.

 

Just listening at the moment, Drake R8B with a long wire from end to end of the attic of my ranch style house (102'). Amazing what it picks up, really.

that's cool. I've been a ham for over 20 years. Have a ICOM 476 pro. Don't get on the air much tho.

 

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[hoagie]

Ham here, I've been licensed for 21 years. Doesn't seem like it's been that long. 

[n9ovreric]

Ham here, I've been licensed for 21 years. Doesn't seem like it's been that long.

same here. But we'll worth it tho.

 

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[S4GRU]

I can tell you from experience that on PCS, the Nexus 5 doesn't have any improvement that I can see when compared to a Galaxy S 3 or Note 2. I know because I have a friend with one and it is no better than mine.

I only tested it on one site in Colorado for all of 15 minutes, but in that specific observation with an N5, GN2 and a GS3, the Nexus 5 bested them in every instance of signal strength and data throughput. And I was confirmed on the same site/sector. As for battery life, I am not able to say.

 

The N5 in my observations was 3-5dBm better not being held, and about 7-8dBm better while being held than the GN2. It was about 5-7dBm better than the GS3 unheld, and about 10dBm better held. The GN2 was less affected being held than the GS3. But that didn't surprise me given the size of the device.

 

My Netgear Zing beat them all, and even picked up a distant B41 site.

 

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