T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[Deval]

Hmm...VoiceStream? Nope, too much data.

 

Towerstream? Nope, already taken.

 

CellularOne? Nope, TMo owns like two cellular licenses.

 

PowerTel? Maybe...sounds too much like Nextel though.

 

metroPCS? Well...they do have the rights to the name, and everyone knows that their subscriber proportion drops like a rock outside urban areas...

 

OmniPoint, the precursor to VoiceStream.

 

I remember those days!

[Deval]

Oh yeahhhhhhh I remember mLife - wasn't it their name for GPRS services?

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

I believe so, but more so a total rebrand of AT&T Wireless. 

[maximus1987/lou99]

Now it would be nice if some one with deep pockets other than AT&T, Softbank or Verizon sunk money in to buy T-mobile to then upgrade there 2G foot print to 4G LTE, got rid of the pink and the T-mobile name and rebooted there rep so that they could better fight the big two.

 

Also the mobile broadband plans are over priced, they need to lower them or redo the pricing on those. ( Not cell phone plan's, hotspot/tablet plans.)

Maybe if Softy hadn't plunged in with Sprint but now, TMO is too much of a fixer upper with too strong competition. It's probably worth more as parts.

[maximus1987/lou99]

Sprint, AT&T, Verizon, the US government, CenturyLink, even Dish. Anyone of them have the realistic reasons to buy DT's 74% of T-Mobile US. However, AT&T and Verizon should not be allowed as it would be too anti-competitive to do so.

Realistic.

Verizon, ATT, Sprint are not realistic in this administration.

 

Us government buying Tmobile????

 

Dish: they probably never wanted to buy sprint and only bid up the price to make its own AWS-4 more valuable.

 

Hedge funds: they only buy if they believe they can invest and then sell in a few years but who else is gonna buy in a few years, another hedge fund?

 

Nope.

 

Open market is really the only buyer at this point I think.

[4ktvs]

Maybe if Softy hadn't plunged in with Sprint but now, TMO is too much of a fixer upper with too strong competition. It's probably worth more as parts.

 

 

Um the same could have been said for sprint before NV with 3G speeds more like 2G speeds and a smaller 4G footprint than even T-moblie. And on top of that T-mobile has been still making money Vs sprint that has been losing money hand over fist. 

 

I think if some one wanted to enter the mobile data game, T-mobile would be way better than to try and build your own from the ground up. But really I think they have a chance of doing just fine with out a buy out happening to them.

[maximus1987/lou99]

Um the same could have been said for sprint before NV with 3G speeds more like 2G speeds and a smaller 4G footprint than even T-moblie. And on top of that T-mobile has been still making money Vs sprint that has been losing money hand over fist.

 

I think if some one wanted to enter the mobile data game, T-mobile would be way better than to try and build your own from the ground up. But really I think they have a chance of doing just fine with out a buy out happening to them.

Yes they were similar but sprint had the foothold in clearwire. TMO has no advantage besides its low number of subs for the amount of spectrum it has.

 

TMO's big problem is that it has no nationwide sub 1 ghz spectrum, not even 3x3 for slow-poke LTE.

And with any 600 MHz it gets, it's gonna have to use it to run voice also which means its gonna need to have higher tower density than for pure LTE data.

 

I guess it's not that bad simply cause of the high spectrum/sub ratio. But no one's gonna pay top dollar unless they have a killer business idea ie where mobile data is an enabler and not the actual product.

 

Then there's the DT problem. It wants out but at what price? Contractually, it can only sell its stake before the 18 month lockup if someone buys it all at once.

 

The one thing I'm concerned is that DT may be limiting TMO's network investments to keep TMO's debt low so it has a higher resale value.

[WiWavelength]

And on top of that T-mobile has been still making money Vs sprint that has been losing money hand over fist. 

 

If you are not separating the Sprint side, which has been holding its own, from the Nextel side, which has been "losing money hand over fist," then your analysis is exceedingly superficial.

 

AJ

[maximus1987/lou99]

If you are not separating the Sprint side, which has been holding its own, from the Nextel side, which has been "losing money hand over fist," then your analysis is exceedingly superficial.

 

AJ

Will Sprint gain meaningful subscribers before TDD and 800 are widely deployed?

[WiWavelength]

Nope.

 

Open market is really the only buyer at this point I think.

 

Hey, in Japan, SoftBank, not then a telecom company, bought out Vodafone KK.  So, do not count out a new entrant.  Maybe McDonalds will buy out T-Mobile.  Their customer bases ought to be complementary.

 

 

AJ

[maxsilver]

Everything Everywhere is a joint venture.  That is very different from a spin off or an acquisition.  Plus, it calls itself Everything Everywhere (and not T-Mobile) for a reason.

 

For another relevant example, look at SoftBank Mobile.  It does not still brand itself Vodafone KK.  Nope, the name went back to the UK when Vodafone sold off its Japan operations to the new entrant.

 

AJ

Virgin Mobile USA is owned by Sprint, and is not owned or operated in any way by Virgin Mobile UK or Virgin Media, but still keeps the brand name "Virgin Mobile" even after Sprint bought out Virgin Group's ownership. This isn't completely identical to the T-Mobile situation, since Virgin is a MVNO, and T-Mobile has it's own network.

 

But if we're being fair, there is at least a little bit of precedent for the brand to stick around after purchase.

[4ktvs]

If you are not separating the Sprint side, which has been holding its own, from the Nextel side, which has been "losing money hand over fist," then your analysis is exceedingly superficial.

 

AJ

 

My point was not to bash sprint, it was to say that they both alike when it came to there networks. But Sprint is now on it's way to fixing all that and I think T-mobile can too. Not saying they will, but can and I think we can have 4 big players.

[maximus1987/lou99]

If you are not separating the Sprint side, which has been holding its own, from the Nextel side, which has been "losing money hand over fist," then your analysis is exceedingly superficial.

 

AJ

Will Sprint gain meaningful subscribers before TDD and 800 are widely deployed?

[maximus1987/lou99]

Hey, in Japan, SoftBank, not then a telecom company, bought out Vodafone KK. So, do not count out a new entrant. Maybe McDonalds will buy out T-Mobile. Their customer bases ought to be complementary.

 

 

AJ

That guy is 1/1000000.

I looked at every single slide of Softy's 2q presentation and they are KILLING it.

 

My favorite slide is arpu over time

[WiWavelength]

That guy is 1/1000000.

 

What "guy"?  Are you talking T-Mobile subs vs McDonalds customers?  T-Mobile subs are cheap.  MetroPCS subs are even cheaper.  The combined operator's current strategy is courting people who need to finance small purchases, such as handsets.  Those people are financially strapped, the same kinds of people who eat at McDonalds.  My logic is meant largely in jest, but it contains a fair amount of truth.

 

AJ

[maximus1987/lou99]

What "guy"? Are you talking T-Mobile subs vs McDonalds customers? T-Mobile subs are cheap. MetroPCS subs are even cheaper. The combined operator's current strategy is courting people who need to finance small purchases, such as handsets. Those people are financially strapped, the same kinds of people who eat at McDonalds. My logic is meant largely in jest, but it contains a fair amount of truth.

 

AJ

Mr. Son

Not many people could take a Vodafone KK and turn it into a SoftBank mobile.

Edited August 5, 2013 by qpotlk1134

[gnoj]

Sprint, AT&T, Verizon, the US government, CenturyLink, even Dish. Anyone of them have the realistic reasons to buy DT's 74% of T-Mobile US. However, AT&T and Verizon should not be allowed as it would be too anti-competitive to do so.

 

Realistic.

Verizon, ATT, Sprint are not realistic in this administration.

...

 

Agreed, there's no way AT&T, VZW, or SoftBank would waste time trying to acquire T-Mo until at least 2017. I think AT&T's still smarting over the last breakup fee..

 

CenturyLink would make some sense, as they're now the third baby bell, but have they ever expressed an interest in getting into mobile? I think they're content with reselling VZW at the moment.

 

My money is still on Dish. How else are they going to utilize their AWS-4 holdings? Combine AWS-4, T-Mo's existing spectrum (which probably will include some AWS-3), and a healthy chunk of 600 MHz, and you'll be left with a company with nearly as broad a range of spectrum as Sprint now holds. Although ultimately of all the apparent options I think it would be best for the company to remain in DT's hands, as long as they commit to improving their network coverage and speed.

 

The one thing I'm concerned is that DT may be limiting TMO's network investments to keep TMO's debt low so it has a higher resale value.

 

Yes, this appears to be exactly what is happening. Just like Softbank, DT has enough capital to bankroll their own version of NV if they wanted to. It makes sense now for them to keep capex and debt low enough to attract potential buyers. However, if they put off for too long a decision on whether or not to sell TMUS, that delay may backfire as T-Mo falls way behind the other 3 national carriers who will have LTE coverage across their entire footprints soon enough. That would leave potential buyers with the choice of either investing much more heavily in it to bring it back up to snuff (there are only so many Masayoshi Son's in the world), or retreating entirely to urban markets. I hope whoever does end up controlling T-Mo that they do choose to invest heavily in it as it's important to have a strong 4th national carrier, particularly after all the regional and local carriers disappear.

[mellimel2212]

What "guy"? Are you talking T-Mobile subs vs McDonalds customers? T-Mobile subs are cheap. MetroPCS subs are even cheaper. The combined operator's current strategy is courting people who need to finance small purchases, such as handsets. Those people are financially strapped, the same kinds of people who eat at McDonalds. My logic is meant largely in jest, but it contains a fair amount of truth.

 

AJ

So just because u eat McDonald's u are cheap or broke????? Haha so so not true I know bankers lawyers doctors ect who eat McDonald's because they have good food. The same for T-Mobile. I'm with them because I like there biz practices and mobile and customer service in my city. Ymmv. The same with sprint att vzw.

 

Sent from my T-Mobile LG Escape running 4.1.2 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[ChadBroChillz]

they have good food. 

 

Sent from my T-Mobile LG Escape running 4.1.2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[maximus1987/lou99]

So just because u eat McDonald's u are cheap or broke????? Haha so so not true I know bankers lawyers doctors ect who eat McDonald's because they have good food. The same for T-Mobile. I'm with them because I like there biz practices and mobile and customer service in my city. Ymmv. The same with sprint att vzw.

 

Sent from my T-Mobile LG Escape running 4.1.2 using Tapatalk 2

He specifically stated its "largely" true not "always" true.

 

Not saying this is you but many people today don't like hearing demonstrably true facts that are politically incorrect.

6 months ago, I remember reading that Legere said that he wants to change TMO stores so that they're more hip. Translation: he knows his best chance is with those I like to call the "subprime clientele".

I don't blame Legere for thinking this way. It's the only avenue to TMO not going bankrupt what with DT (probably) blocking the investment needed to upgrade 15k rural towers.

 

I visited a TMO store recently and wow: TMO is definitely attracting its target market lol.

Edited August 6, 2013 by qpotlk1134

[mellimel2212]

More hip= younger subs is what he is actually talking about. Inform me on what you and AJ is talking about???

 

Sent from my T-Mobile LG Escape running 4.1.2 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[maximus1987/lou99]

Agreed, there's no way AT&T, VZW, or SoftBank would waste time trying to acquire T-Mo until at least 2017. I think AT&T's still smarting over the last breakup fee..

 

CenturyLink would make some sense, as they're now the third baby bell, but have they ever expressed an interest in getting into mobile? I think they're content with reselling VZW at the moment.

 

My money is still on Dish. How else are they going to utilize their AWS-4 holdings? Combine AWS-4, T-Mo's existing spectrum (which probably will include some AWS-3), and a healthy chunk of 600 MHz, and you'll be left with a company with nearly as broad a range of spectrum as Sprint now holds. Although ultimately of all the apparent options I think it would be best for the company to remain in DT's hands, as long as they commit to improving their network coverage and speed.

 

 

Yes, this appears to be exactly what is happening. Just like Softbank, DT has enough capital to bankroll their own version of NV if they wanted to. It makes sense now for them to keep capex and debt low enough to attract potential buyers. However, if they put off for too long a decision on whether or not to sell TMUS, that delay may backfire as T-Mo falls way behind the other 3 national carriers who will have LTE coverage across their entire footprints soon enough. That would leave potential buyers with the choice of either investing much more heavily in it to bring it back up to snuff (there are only so many Masayoshi Son's in the world), or retreating entirely to urban markets. I hope whoever does end up controlling T-Mo that they do choose to invest heavily in it as it's important to have a strong 4th national carrier, particularly after all the regional and local carriers disappear.

TMO cannot retreat to urbania and hope to survive; sprint's nationwide 2.5 GHz made that strategy futile. No matter how low TMO is able to price its plans, sprint will be able to squeeze it on price and/or gigabytes cause of the CAPACITY of 2.5 ghz.

 

Even if DT's plan is to hope for a republican FCC in 2017 so it can sell to sprint, if it tries to go 3.5 years without upgrading 15k rural towers, Sprint will DECIMATE it and the resale value will be ~0.

 

To get an idea of the cost of roaming to TMO, go to gosmartmobile.com

It's a TMO brand that ONLY works on its own network. Unl talk, text, 5 GB data @900 Kbps Is $45.

I put my mom on the $30 unl talk, text

Edited August 6, 2013 by qpotlk1134

[maximus1987/lou99]

More hip= younger subs is what he is actually talking about. Inform me on what you and AJ is talking about???

 

Sent from my T-Mobile LG Escape running 4.1.2 using Tapatalk 2

(Plug your ears sensitive ones).

 

When I was in the TMO store, I saw ghetto people and white trash as indicated by their clothes and manner of talking. That's what we're talking about. And that's what Legere is talking about. More hip is code for ghetto ie poorer.

 

More specifically, there is a correlation if not a causality between how one acts and one's income. You're not gonna see an engineer with his pants 1/4 falling off with tattoos.

Legere knows his only chance is the low end so he adjusts his advertising to attract said demographic.

 

"THAT'S SO ELITIST AND RACIST!"

I told you to plug your ears if they're sensitive to the truth.

Edited August 6, 2013 by qpotlk1134

[GinaDee]

(Plug your ears sensitive ones). When I was in the TMO store, I saw ghetto people and white trash as indicated by their clothes and manner of talking. That's what we're talking about. And that's what Legere is talking about. More hip is code for ghetto ie poorer. More specifically, there is a correlation if not a causality between how one acts and one's income. You're not gonna see an engineer with his pants 1/4 falling off with tattoos. Legere knows his only chance is the low end so he adjusts his advertising to attract said demographic. "THAT'S SO ELITIST AND RACIST!" I told you to plug your ears if they're sensitive to the truth.

Speaking of being politically incorrect:  Sprint retail stores are just as "ghetto," as T-Mobile.  Talk about the pot calling the kettle black... for real.

 

Regular customers (not Sprint employees or enthusiasts)..... don't choose Sprint for coverage nor do they choose Sprint for their incredibly fast 3G speeds because we all know neither are there.  They choose Sprint because they are cheaper than the more well known incumbents.  Sprint, like T-Mobile will continue to offer unlimited data as long as they have to in order to attract the value conscious.  

 

This isn't a knock on Sprint but it's reality if you want to go there. 

[GinaDee]

TMO cannot retreat to urbania and hope to survive; sprint's nationwide 2.5 GHz made that strategy futile. No matter how low TMO is able to price its plans, sprint will be able to squeeze it on price and/or gigabytes cause of the CAPACITY of 2.5 ghz. Even if DT's plan is to hope for a republican FCC in 2017 so it can sell to sprint, if it tries to go 3.5 years without upgrading 15k rural towers, Sprint will DECIMATE it and the resale value will be ~0. To get an idea of the cost of roaming to TMO, go to gosmartmobile.com It's a TMO brand that ONLY works on its own network. Unl talk, text, 5 GB data @900 Kbps Is $45. I put my mom on the $30 unl talk, text

 

 

TMO cannot retreat to urbania and hope to survive; sprint's nationwide 2.5 GHz made that strategy futile. No matter how low TMO is able to price its plans, sprint will be able to squeeze it on price and/or gigabytes cause of the CAPACITY of 2.5 ghz. Even if DT's plan is to hope for a republican FCC in 2017 so it can sell to sprint, if it tries to go 3.5 years without upgrading 15k rural towers, Sprint will DECIMATE it and the resale value will be ~0. To get an idea of the cost of roaming to TMO, go to gosmartmobile.com It's a TMO brand that ONLY works on its own network. Unl talk, text, 5 GB data @900 Kbps Is $45. I put my mom on the $30 unl talk, text

 

I was around when Sprint bought Nextel.  The Sprint fanboys were in the same utopia as they are now.  They thought they were going to rule the wireless world with the best coverage, best PTT offering, best phones, best speeds and highest ARPU.  They were going to destroy Verizon and dominate the US wireless market.  

 

2.5 GHz networks have great capacity capabilities but the range is abysmal.  With best efforts building out new sub 1 GHz networks and PCS networks from scratch are poor and spotty at best.  2.5 GHz will be even worse.  I doubt Son is dumb enough to pour in the capital to build out 2.5 GHz to the extent needed to be ubiquitous and will instead only use it in the most dense urban markets where the highest needs are.  

 

Facts are that Softbank, as successful as they were in Japan, are not guaranteed to replicate this success State-side.  By many accounts even in Japan their service "sucks."  The United States is a market unlike no other on earth and the challenges to build out far exceed anything SoftBank has ever had to encounter.  The incumbents will not make it easy for them either.  

 

A large part of Softbank's Japanese success was in part to being an exclusive provider of the iPhone.  Here the carriers compete by having the best phones exclusive to themselves or pricing themselves down down down.  Son doesn't want to allow the competitors to capitalize on growing data revenues while he offers unlimited data with capped fees.  

 

I'm trying to find the interview he made with a reporter where he claimed he would have to continue to offer "unlimited data," as long as Sprint's network was poor in comparison to their competitors.  

[GinaDee]

What "guy"?  Are you talking T-Mobile subs vs McDonalds customers?  T-Mobile subs are cheap.  MetroPCS subs are even cheaper.  The combined operator's current strategy is courting people who need to finance small purchases, such as handsets.  Those people are financially strapped, the same kinds of people who eat at McDonalds.  My logic is meant largely in jest, but it contains a fair amount of truth.

 

AJ

 

AJ I know you are trying to be funny so I'll extend a courtesy laugh to you and your ignorance.  

 

When did Sprint become the luxury carrier for the well to do?  What dimension of space is this even reality?  

 

T-Mobile and Sprint cater and fight for 2nd and 3rd tier customers who value paying less money a month in exchange for a lesser network experience.  Walk into any Sprint store and it's like going to the DMV.  I've had to deal with their retail (corporate owned employees and Business reps alike for years.  They stand out and not always in a good way. 

 

Sprint customers looking to buy accessories have to compete with customers trying to pay their 2 month past due statements in cash.  

Edited August 6, 2013 by GinaDee