Network Vision/LTE - Columbus Market

[AirJordan613]

Sprint 3G hasn't work for me at all in over a week calls drop ALOT for me too. I'm thinking about dropping Sprint and go to T-Mobile, I'm always in Columbus because I know T-Mobile sucks if your out of Columbus.

3G has been abysmal lately for me as well.

 

 

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[dkyeager]

Same problem here in Pickerington. We've got friends with T-Mobile and we used to use a T-Mobile hotspot thanks to no LTE and 3G service being a near useless. Wife just said it's time to switch when she got tired of her call dropping on the way home every day. Been this way since September and she finally got fed up. Ironically, this happened the same day Basil-Western LTE was turned on. Positive note, Nexus 5 is on it's way. Negative note, we're out the $100/line for the ETF. Been with Sprint for 5 months shy of 10 years.

 

Whoever decided that getting LTE turned on in Carrol, Baltimore, Newark, Lancaster, etc was more important than getting 800 Mhz voice turned on in the whole city doesn't make the best decisions. They've basically setup a zone where the calls drop 100% to bring in LTE that is basically the same speed as HSPA+ in a less populated area. If Sprint isn't bleeding customers on the SE side, I'd be floored.

 

Edited to add this: Also, I don't see why everyone is excited about B41 LTE. 1900MHz already has terrible penetration, 2500MHz is going to be even worse. Don't get me wrong, I've got an Evo LTE and it's RF is pretty much terrible, but still. I've used WiMax in buildings downtown and it just doesn't work. This is a large chunk of why no one liked WiMax, it's building penetration is non-existent. There's a reason why T-Mobile just agreed to buy 700 Mhz spectrum from Verzion and AT&T/Verzion are concentrating on their 700MHz bands.

 

IMO the Network Vision project is extremely complicated, its too bad they previously did not have the money to take it in smaller steps that had less affect on the users.  But without Network Vision, they would not remain in business much longer either.

 

As a person who got a Photon 4G the morning they were released, I am well acquainted with Wimax.  Columbus actually had one of the better Wimax networks compared to other metros where I used it.  Office / stucco home building penetration is an issue, but that is where LTE on bands 25 and 26 comes in.  I see band 26 LTE used in very rural areas for distance, and downtown for building penetration.

 

Band 41 TD-LTE versus Wimax.  No comparison.  Speed 60Mbps+ versus 14Mbps (both unloaded), 16 versus 2 upload.  The coverage at the 44 Band 41 TD-LTE sites in Columbus that I have been at

is much different than Wimax and cover much more area.  Generally good coverage to the edge.  Great coverage extends out much further than Wimax. Possible negative: judgements are all based on winter with no leaves on the trees. 

 

The target user speed experience for Sprint is 12-15Mbps accross their network. Source: http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/sprints-bye-2014-year/2014-01-08. In my observations, many users can not detect anything past 5Mbps no matter who is the carrier.

 

 

 

Sprint 3G hasn't work for me at all in over a week calls drop ALOT for me too. I'm thinking about dropping Sprint and go to T-Mobile, I'm always in Columbus because I know T-Mobile sucks if your out of Columbus.

 

When ever the network is flakey for a few days in Columbus (in the last 2 months), I have then observed new sites coming on line.  Then it seems to take a while for these sites to be tuned and come up to full strength.  I did observe band 25 LTE coming on line in Canal Winchester on Tuesday for about 5 minutes, plus many band 41 TD-LTE sites (but that may be almost done for a month until the next band 41 phase.)

 

I have also read that Sprint is trying to move band 25 3G users to 1x800 to free up more room for band 25 LTE.

 

 

To stay or go?? 2 months ago I faced the same question.  I believe Sprint with Softbank is viable.  The darkest hours come right before the dawn.

[Chowder]

Just think how few people will be using our shiny new network come spring. It'll be all ours for a couple years!

 

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[chanfishy]

Just think how few people will be using our shiny new network come spring. It'll be all ours for a couple years!

 

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Yes but we got a few months yet I'm not going to T-Mobile I'm just going to reactivate my old Clear Voyager and use that for internet since 3G doesn't even work for me. It is going to suck having to carry around another device with me and having to pay $40 for the service.

[amcferrin90]

Not sure where you're at in Pickerington but I was taking a dinner break at Refugee and 256 where I know nothing works because it's smack in between NV and legacy. I went to ##DATA#, set my phone to CDMA only and enjoyed usable data for a bit. At that point my 1X went from 800 to 1900 but it worked. I'm going to try this tomorrow on the way to work and see what happens. My goal was to force data over CDMA

 

I did find one site that is legacy and working! It's my little secret too. Actually it's probably why Oakley707 hasn't complained much about data.

[andycapps]

Sprint 3G hasn't work for me at all in over a week calls drop ALOT for me too. I'm thinking about dropping Sprint and go to T-Mobile, I'm always in Columbus because I know T-Mobile sucks if your out of Columbus.

If you ever go on trips, you'll be on edge coverage with Tmobile unless you're in a metro area. If you never travel and you live in a metro area, yeah, TMobile is great.

[the_tom_burns]

Sprint 3G hasn't work for me at all in over a week calls drop ALOT for me too. I'm thinking about dropping Sprint and go to T-Mobile, I'm always in Columbus because I know T-Mobile sucks if your out of Columbus.

 

(first post woo)

 

As someone who never travels outside 270, and is never around Morse, Sprint's been ...not good over the past few years.  But the last week or two everything has been nigh unusable.  I travel down 315 from Worthington to Short North most mornings around 6:30am to go to the gym, and over the last week or two my Pandora hasn't streamed anything the whole way down, and just gives me "timed out" errors.  I'm not sure if that's long-term good, but short term it sucks.

 

I have, however, figured out that forcing EVDO (is that forcing CDMA? I'm a bit foggy on that point) makes things work much better.  Somewhere I read on this site that eHRPD is routed through the LTE chipsets, vs. EVDO going through ...something else.  Given that Sprint put everyone on eHRPD where I'm from, my theory is that the EVDO technology is barren, and we can get usable data through it now, whereas their eHRPD routing is hyper congested, as they're not done building out how it works.  

 

I'm sure someone will make what I said make sense.  But in short, I have data when EVDO is displayed, none when eHRPD is.  So get into EVDO and you should be ok.

[COZisBack]

New LTE Accepted yesterday.

• Marysville x 4
• Bellafontaine
• Mount Vernon

[bumonbox]

Sorry for that vague post but I am at the chase at 1000 Polaris parkway

Across from the AMC movie theatre. I'm not able to check the map on my phone due to it closing out. But will check once I get home.

 

 

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Ahah, but you mean Rave movie theater, (or well, Cinemark now owns them).  There is 4g on Polaris, I hadn't looked that closely, but thought the signal reached to the Chase Complex on Polaris.  Ah well.

 

So on an irrelevent note.  I asked this before, but I guess the answer didn't register at the time, so I am going to ask and understand it this time.  3g GMO sites, if they are GMO, will they not be getting 800 mhz at all, or 4g for that matter?  Or are just some of them getting 800 MHz at different times from their upgrade?  I mostly ask because of 2 specific towers (I won't include here, I could put it in the sponsor thread I suppose) up in Mount Vernon, (west of Mount Vernon, I live on the west edge of mount vernon, and by edge I mean it is a fraction of a mile until I am in centerburg) off route 3.  The tower I usually connect to is on Dunham rd, but it's a GMO, and naturally I want to know if it will ever see 800 mhz. 

 

The good news is, since upgrading the tower, cell service is considerably more usable in the house.  But you have to be careful where you are in the house when trying to use it.  But I'd love it to be perfect.

[chanfishy]

New LTE Accepted yesterday.

 

• Marysville x 4
• Bellafontaine
• Mount Vernon

Hope they are coming to Columbus next

[COZisBack]

I'm not sure if everyone knows, but if you're a Sponsor of S4GRU.com you have access to a map and spreadsheet that shows every single Sprint site in our market minus LTE 2.5 & LTE 800?

 

It's located here: http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/4742-columbus-market-mapspreadsheet/

 

It will tell you if a site has Network Vision work started, if it has construction complete, if the site has been 3G accepted, 1x800 accepted and/or LTE1900 accepted. Please check it out if you haven't. It will help you all alot.

 

 

Ahah, but you mean Rave movie theater, (or well, Cinemark now owns them).  There is 4g on Polaris, I hadn't looked that closely, but thought the signal reached to the Chase Complex on Polaris.  Ah well.

 

So on an irrelevent note.  I asked this before, but I guess the answer didn't register at the time, so I am going to ask and understand it this time.  3g GMO sites, if they are GMO, will they not be getting 800 mhz at all, or 4g for that matter?  Or are just some of them getting 800 MHz at different times from their upgrade?  I mostly ask because of 2 specific towers (I won't include here, I could put it in the sponsor thread I suppose) up in Mount Vernon, (west of Mount Vernon, I live on the west edge of mount vernon, and by edge I mean it is a fraction of a mile until I am in centerburg) off route 3.  The tower I usually connect to is on Dunham rd, but it's a GMO, and naturally I want to know if it will ever see 800 mhz. 

 

The good news is, since upgrading the tower, cell service is considerably more usable in the house.  But you have to be careful where you are in the house when trying to use it.  But I'd love it to be perfect.

 

In terms of your 3G GMO question, there appears to be multiple types of 3G GMO sites here in Columbus.

• First is a traditional GMO site, where 1900 RRHs (Radios) only are mounted near the base station cabinets and the legacy coaxial cable and legacy antennas are used. This site will only have 3G 1900.
• Another is a GMO site, where 1900 RRHs only are mounted near the base station and there is Legacy Antennas, but they're newer antennas that support LTE. This site will have 3G/LTE 1900.
• Next is a site where 1900 & 800 RRHs are mounted near the base but the coaxial is swapped out for hyperflex and new antennas and this site will support full services, but the RRHs are mounted near the basestation
• Last type of site are sites that were previously determined to be GMO then they decided to make it a full build site and all services are available.

It's possible that either of the first two will eventually be converted to Full Build, Full Service sites. If and when that will occur is unknown at this time.

[COZisBack]

Hope they are coming to Columbus next

 

Just my opinion, but I honestly think they are, this is the first time that I can say that. There is already a team in Columbus building sites, I think they're coming to join them.

[bumonbox]

I'm not sure if everyone knows, but if you're a Sponsor of S4GRU.com you have access to a map and spreadsheet that shows every single Sprint site in our market minus LTE 2.5 & LTE 800?

 

It's located here: http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/4742-columbus-market-mapspreadsheet/

 

It will tell you if a site has Network Vision work started, if it has construction complete, if the site has been 3G accepted, 1x800 accepted and/or LTE1900 accepted. Please check it out if you haven't. It will help you all alot.

 

 

 

In terms of your 3G GMO question, there appears to be multiple types of 3G GMO sites here in Columbus.

• First is a traditional GMO site, where 1900 RRHs (Radios) only are mounted near the base station cabinets and the legacy coaxial cable and legacy antennas are used. This site will only have 3G 1900.
• Another is a GMO site, where 1900 RRHs only are mounted near the base station and there is Legacy Antennas, but they're newer antennas that support LTE. This site will have 3G/LTE 1900.
• Next is a site where 1900 & 800 RRHs are mounted near the base but the coaxial is swapped out for hyperflex and new antennas and this site will support full services, but the RRHs are mounted near the basestation
• Last type of site are sites that were previously determined to be GMO then they decided to make it a full build site and all services are available.

It's possible that either of the first two will eventually be converted to Full Build, Full Service sites. If and when that will occur is unknown at this time.

 

 

Thanks, that helps a lot! 

So at this point, if it's already upgraded, odds are it's going to stay that way, at least for a bit, and that amount of time is unknown.

 

I do find it odd though, I'd think in rural areas, where coverage has to be so spread out, they'd be really gunning to get 800 mhz moving.  And looking at the towers up around here and other rural areas, it seems like there were good about upgrading many of the towers along the more major roads in those areas, but the more remote sites seems stuck as GMOs.  That is a very unscientific analysis as I haven't put much time into looking at it, but that's just what it seems like. 

 

That said I technically live right on one of those major roads.  And what's annoying for me is, running rt 3 from westerville straight to mount vernon, and this stretch of rt 3 near where I live is now the only remaining spotty connection.  There used to be some other weak spots, but those got corrected with the upgrades.   

I suppose I may just need to buckle and get an airrave if I want consistant usability.

[COZisBack]

Thanks, that helps a lot! 

So at this point, if it's already upgraded, odds are it's going to stay that way, at least for a bit, and that amount of time is unknown.

 

I do find it odd though, I'd think in rural areas, where coverage has to be so spread out, they'd be really gunning to get 800 mhz moving.  And looking at the towers up around here and other rural areas, it seems like there were good about upgrading many of the towers along the more major roads in those areas, but the more remote sites seems stuck as GMOs.  That is a very unscientific analysis as I haven't put much time into looking at it, but that's just what it seems like. 

 

That said I technically live right on one of those major roads.  And what's annoying for me is, running rt 3 from westerville straight to mount vernon, and this stretch of rt 3 near where I live is now the only remaining spotty connection.  There used to be some other weak spots, but those got corrected with the upgrades.   

I suppose I may just need to buckle and get an airrave if I want consistant usability.

 

If you haven't had a chance to see Robert's story on GMOs it's a great read: http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/entry-340-sprint-deploys-special-ground-mount-option-network-vision-sites-in-some-low-capacity-and-high-engineering-locations/

[andycapps]

Just my opinion, but I honestly think they are, this is the first time that I can say that. There is already a team in Columbus building sites, I think they're coming to join them.

Team in Columbus is up in Westerville area now, right?

[bumonbox]

If you haven't had a chance to see Robert's story on GMOs it's a great read: http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/entry-340-sprint-deploys-special-ground-mount-option-network-vision-sites-in-some-low-capacity-and-high-engineering-locations/

 

Thanks a ton.  I kept searching for a GMO informational post on the site, but just couldn't find it, don't think the search function was working - or my brain or something.

 

That made it crystal clear for me.  And now makes much, much more sense.  I am definitely not alone.  No doubt they assessed the potential subsriber count on these towers and ranked them low priority.  The only thing that is less clear is, it doesn't sound like GMOs offer much of improvement.  In many cases it doesn't sound like they would offer improved signal propogation.  However, I definitely noticed a very slight improvement.  I don't have to go outside to talk anymore. 

This has me wondering too - is winter better for cell signal in rural areas.  I don't have an awesome understanding of signal propogation, but vegetation does a good job decreasing propogation of wind and noise, does it do the same for cell signal?

[UPdownLoAD]

bumonabox: Download Sensorly and start doing some mapping on your way home!! I've been trying to map south of Centerburg when I get the chance but I could use the help. North of 36 or south of 36 between Centerburg and Utica would be the most helpful (you'll see the blanks )

 

There is also a newly launched LTE site that you might be able to pickup when you get home, depending on your line of sight. The exact site is on the Sponsor side, which I see you are. We could also use the help getting more info from that LTE tower for our market's spreadsheet.

[amcferrin90]

Thanks a ton.  I kept searching for a GMO informational post on the site, but just couldn't find it, don't think the search function was working - or my brain or something.

 

That made it crystal clear for me.  And now makes much, much more sense.  I am definitely not alone.  No doubt they assessed the potential subsriber count on these towers and ranked them low priority.  The only thing that is less clear is, it doesn't sound like GMOs offer much of improvement.  In many cases it doesn't sound like they would offer improved signal propogation.  However, I definitely noticed a very slight improvement.  I don't have to go outside to talk anymore. 

This has me wondering too - is winter better for cell signal in rural areas.  I don't have an awesome understanding of signal propogation, but vegetation does a good job decreasing propogation of wind and noise, does it do the same for cell signal?

Another factor that I think was not discussed could be the tower structure. The construction permits I've seen all required an engineering firm to determine the max wind speed the equipment on the tower could sustain and then the equipment/tower have to be upgraded to meet a minimum max wind speed. There is also the aviation light factor as I've seen some towers receive new aviation lighting that was not present before, probably requiring additional inspections by the FAA and such. All of these factors also probably contribute to the GMO decision.

 

Let me divert to building code. If your building is built in 1974, building codes of that day apply. But if you do any upgrades or renovations you risk having to bring everything up to current code which in most cases can be cost prohibitive. So if they don't touch the tower, they wouldn't be required to bring it up to code. This could very well be a factor if you look at cost vs population.

[spazhead]

Hi, I actually do not have my LTE only turned on right now on my G2.  I am in Gahanna, kind of near 270 and Hamilton.  I looked at my phone to check for a text and saw the 4g light on.  I do have the updated 4.22 version of SCP but it is still not showing the location.  Anyway, it was definitely a band 41 (0F), again in regular CDMA + LTE auto mode.  Ran a speed test and it was 9 down 2 up.  I guess I was just curious how it was picking up b41 when not in LTE only mode?  That update never came out yet, right?

[S4GRU]

It's cool that you guys are holding a S4GRU Meet & Greet.  Wish I could be there.  Have a great time!  

 

Robert

[bumonbox]

bumonabox: Download Sensorly and start doing some mapping on your way home!! I've been trying to map south of Centerburg when I get the chance but I could use the help. North of 36 or south of 36 between Centerburg and Utica would be the most helpful (you'll see the blanks )

 

There is also a newly launched LTE site that you might be able to pickup when you get home, depending on your line of sight. The exact site is on the Sponsor side, which I see you are. We could also use the help getting more info from that LTE tower for our market's spreadsheet.

 

I've got it.  I've done some mapping before, I don't often have the app running though.  I will do so.  Especially if I do any putzing around.

 

While I probably won't make the members meet, I think it's awesome you guys are doing it.

[Oakley707]

Hi, I actually do not have my LTE only turned on right now on my G2.  I am in Gahanna, kind of near 270 and Hamilton.  I looked at my phone to check for a text and saw the 4g light on.  I do have the updated 4.22 version of SCP but it is still not showing the location.  Anyway, it was definitely a band 41 (0F), again in regular CDMA + LTE auto mode.  Ran a speed test and it was 9 down 2 up.  I guess I was just curious how it was picking up b41 when not in LTE only mode?  That update never came out yet, right?

Correct, the Spark update is not out yet.  You didn't by chance take a screenshot of your SCP did you?  Post it if you do, it would definitely confirm Band 41 based on the GCI / PCI numbers.

[dkyeager]

Hi, I actually do not have my LTE only turned on right now on my G2.  I am in Gahanna, kind of near 270 and Hamilton.  I looked at my phone to check for a text and saw the 4g light on.  I do have the updated 4.22 version of SCP but it is still not showing the location.  Anyway, it was definitely a band 41 (0F), again in regular CDMA + LTE auto mode.  Ran a speed test and it was 9 down 2 up.  I guess I was just curious how it was picking up b41 when not in LTE only mode?  That update never came out yet, right?

 

As each band 41 site comes up there is often a period of several hours to a day when it is publicly viewable.  Any one who has band 41 turned on will see it if they are nearby for a long enough period.  As they continue the setup process it becomes hidden unless you are in the G2s special mode, which is often described as "LTE Only".  It seems that they continue to make antenna adjustments for several weeks after that.

 

All this and much more is covered in the premier section.

[thenight84]

You guys have been real busy i see. CoZ I have a pretty solid list of new 3G sites going live this month if youre interested 

[digiblur]

You guys have been real busy i see. CoZ I have a pretty solid list of new 3G sites going live this month if youre interested 

 

The skies have parted.....oooooooo