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10MHz by 10MHz LTE 1900 band


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Any word on a deployment of 10x10?

 

Surely people feel how slow the current 5x5 is compared to 10x10 T Mo/etc.

 

Apparently many if not all Sprint LTE devices have been set up to support 10x10 in the 1900 band (Note 4 and Note Edge have it, the only devices I have checked). They have capacity of 37.5MHz to 40MHz in the band. Enough for up to 15x15 perhaps and a legacy CDMA/EVDO channel. Thus 10x10 is more than doable .. IMO. :)

 

What it would do is overnight double downloads and uploads, to be on par with T Mo in areas where 2.5GHz dropped or was not available. The current 5x5 sort of puts around in comparison side by side. :P

 

To Sprint: it might bring instant satisfaction boosts to customers that goes with fast and optimal running networks.

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I suspect rural areas would be able to have a 10x10 carrier added. Urban and suburban, there might not be enough room after CDMA voice and EV-DO.

 

 

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I suspect rural areas would be able to have a 10x10 carrier added. Urban and suburban, there might not be enough room after CDMA voice and EV-DO.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Suburban can get by on voice on 800Mhz. Urban maybe not. On the other hand if Sprint perfects WiFi calling, between 1xAdvanced on 800Mhz and WiFi calling, they might not need voice on 1900Mhz. EVDO will depend on M2M customers moving to LTE.

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Sprint's PCS holdings are HIGHLY variable by market, and where they do hold more than one block, they are often not adjacent to each other to allow wide channels. Sprint could only do a 10MHz FDD LTE carrier in maybe 10 markets in the country. And it would be very messy, and would create other problems like voice capacity and M2M capacity.

 

That's why Sprint is trying to push as much traffic as possible off B25, so the remaining customers who only have B25 can have a decent experience. They can do that faster than refarming enough to get a 10x10. And also, while there are devices out there that are only 5MHz capable, this will never happen.

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Any word on a deployment of 10x10?

 

Surely people feel how slow the current 5x5 is compared to 10x10 T Mo/etc.

 

Apparently many if not all Sprint LTE devices have been set up to support 10x10 in the 1900 band (Note 4 and Note Edge have it, the only devices I have checked). They have capacity of 37.5MHz to 40MHz in the band. Enough for up to 15x15 perhaps and a legacy CDMA/EVDO channel. Thus 10x10 is more than doable .. IMO. :)

 

What it would do is overnight double downloads and uploads, to be on par with T Mo in areas where 2.5GHz dropped or was not available. The current 5x5 sort of puts around in comparison side by side. :P

 

To Sprint: it might bring instant satisfaction boosts to customers that goes with fast and optimal running networks.

 

Unless it's a penis measuring contest, raw speeds are nothing if a depressing thing to brag about.

 

Also, a 10x10 would require contiguous spectrum, adjacent to G-Block, which Sprint does not have nationwide. What we would see is potential carrier aggregation in PCS, sometime in the future when Sprint starts refarming PCS. Of course that will effect EVDO and voice capacity, which is something to consider.

 

What everyone is forgetting is that with B41, there is no real need to refarm PCS yet. If Sprint can densify the network with small cells, etc. the capacity would be sufficient and speeds would be acceptable.

 

It really comes down to what a user considers the "speed" should be. Advertising the fastest does nothing for users if it isn't consistent.

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Also, a 10x10 would require contiguous spectrum, adjacent to G-Block, which Sprint does not have nationwide.

In this scenario, they would have to take the full 10x10 out of PCS A-F blocks that Sprint would hold in the market. Which makes it really hard to do. Sprint does have some markets with 20x20 in PCS A-F blocks. But rarely contiguous, of course.

 

Sprint could do a 10x10 channel in PCS A-F in a few markets, and still keep the 5x5 G Block for 5MHz only devices. But it would just be handful of 97 markets. And there will be some cons in doing so.

 

It will destroy voice and EVDO capacity at critical high use areas in those markets. At Stadiums, event areas, airports, shopping malls, etc. Sprint has deployed up to a dozen CDMA carriers. Taking up ~15x15MHz of PCS spectrum. Other sites in the rest of the market may only use 10x10 for CDMA in PCS A-F.

 

So if they deploy a 10x10 LTE carrier and turn off 5MHz of CDMA in the places that actively use more, you instantly have a voice and EVDO shortage in places of high usage in that market.

 

Maybe one day the trade off to reduce the capacity of high capacity sites will be worth it, and Sprint decides to add the 10x10 LTE carrier. But this would only be in about 10 of 97 markets. The other ~87 remaining markets can't add the 10x10 B25 even if they wanted.

 

By the time it would make sense for Sprint to pull the trigger on a meaningful 10MHz PCS LTE plan, B41 will be ubiquitous and Non Triband devices will be a near meaningless part of the market.

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I think that sprint could refarm/reconfigure their b25 holdings to allow 10x10... But the time and money it would take to do so when they already have b41 with 3x20 possible today begs the Question-why?

At the end of the day it comes to execution-buy and implement the small cells/macro sites where it's needed.

If they can do that in a timely fashion maybe we should all buy 600k shares.

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Unless it's a penis measuring contest, raw speeds are nothing if a depressing thing to brag about.

 

Also, a 10x10 would require contiguous spectrum, adjacent to G-Block, which Sprint does not have nationwide. What we would see is potential carrier aggregation in PCS, sometime in the future when Sprint starts refarming PCS. Of course that will effect EVDO and voice capacity, which is something to consider.

 

What everyone is forgetting is that with B41, there is no real need to refarm PCS yet. If Sprint can densify the network with small cells, etc. the capacity would be sufficient and speeds would be acceptable.

 

It really comes down to what a user considers the "speed" should be. Advertising the fastest does nothing for users if it isn't consistent.

 

Sprint can have 3 5x5 channels in b25 in some markets (including PCS G). In some markets where they have 15x15MHz channels they could probably do a 10x10 + a 5x5 (PCS G). It might not have the same peak speed as a 10x10 or a 15x15 channel but who cares. Now I have long advocated that Sprint trade some of their BRS to Dish for their 2000-2020MHz+PCS H allocation. Along with PCS G it will make for a nice 30x10 MHz chunk of spectrum. It kind of makes the rest of their PCS holdings kind of irrelevant.

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Sprint can have 3 5x5 channels in b25 in some markets (including PCS G). In some markets where they have 15x15MHz channels they could probably do a 10x10 + a 5x5 (PCS G). It might not have the same peak speed as a 10x10 or a 15x15 channel but who cares. Now I have long advocated that Sprint trade some of their BRS to Dish for their 2000-2020MHz+PCS H allocation. Along with PCS G it will make for a nice 30x10 MHz chunk of spectrum. It kind of makes the rest of their PCS holdings kind of irrelevant.

 

Except that it is not that simple/easy. In order to deploy a true 10x10 or 20x20, you would need contiguous, greenfield spectrum, rather than refarming at the risk of harming your existing base.

 

That's why Sprint could do a better job with B41 deployment, which is 10000000% greenfield.

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How much voice traffic can 800 carry? I was wondering if not for some legacy device, Sprint can totally remove voice channel in PCS.

 

As much as one PCS 1x carrier.  And Sprint only deploys one PCS 1x carrier in rural areas.  Most sites have at least two.  And higher capacity sites have between 3-6.  So one single SMR 1x carrier is not going be enough to carry all the voice traffic except in rural areas.  At least, as of now.  As voice usage continues to drop, the capacity becomes less and less important.  But not fast enough.

 

Also, Sprint still has millions of customers who do not have CDMA 800 capable phones.

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As much as one PCS 1x carrier.  And Sprint only deploys one PCS 1x carrier in rural areas.  Most sites have at least two.  And higher capacity sites have between 3-6.  So one single SMR 1x carrier is not going be enough to carry all the voice traffic except in rural areas.  At least, as of now.  As voice usage continues to drop, the capacity becomes less and less important.  But not fast enough.

 

Also, Sprint still has millions of customers who do not have CDMA 800 capable phones.

I believe in suburban and rural areas one channel is more than enough. 1xAdvanced is configurable for either wider coverage or more capacity. Since Sprint has added 1x800 voice to pretty much every site they can configure 1x800 voice for capacity. Now NYC and San Fran  and most downtowns will always through those calculations out of whack!

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Also, Sprint still has millions of customers who do not have CDMA 800 capable phones.

 

Rob, I do question that, because Sprint has been seeding the market with BC10 phones since the EVO and EVO 3D. 

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I believe in suburban and rural areas one channel is more than enough. 1xAdvanced is configurable for either wider coverage or more capacity. Since Sprint has added 1x800 voice to pretty much every site they can configure 1x800 voice for capacity. Now NYC and San Fran  and most downtowns will always through those calculations out of whack!

 

1x 800 is already configured for 1 voice carrier and 1 LTE carrier.

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Rob, I do question that, because Sprint has been seeding the market with BC10 phones since the EVO and EVO 3D. 

 

Think M2M.  Millions of customers, or better would be to say millions of active devices..  Also, not all Sprint customers have smartphones.  Even if 90% of Sprint customers have CDMA 800 capable devices, that leave over 5M who do not.  But only recently has M2M started supporting 800MHz.  And there is less incentive to upgrade these as they just perform a simple function.  There is no consumer demand for a new product.

 

Additionally, if I remember correctly the EVO did not support CDMA 800.  It's been since the EVO 3D, if memory serves.  Also, there were a few notable devices after the EVO 3D that did not support BC10, and there were some angry folks.  Wasn't one of them the original Photon?  Or maybe the GS2?

 

EDIT:  Heck, Sprint can't even get BC10 to work on the Note 2!!!

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I believe in suburban and rural areas one channel is more than enough. 1xAdvanced is configurable for either wider coverage or more capacity. Since Sprint has added 1x800 voice to pretty much every site they can configure 1x800 voice for capacity. Now NYC and San Fran  and most downtowns will always through those calculations out of whack!

 

I disagree.  They have to be able to do it in the whole market or not at all.  It's the issue of lowest common denominator.  To explain, if there are a few sites that need 6-10 CDMA carriers in a market, you can't deploy a mixed solution.  It all has to be one way or the other.  You cannot deploy 10x10 LTE throughout the market and keep the high capacity CDMA where needed.  They would interfere.  Catastrophically.

 

You either have to say we will live with insufficient CDMA capacity at the high capacity sites, or live without redundant 10x10 PCS LTE that is being covered by 20MHz B41 LTE.  This shows why Sprint is not jumping right in and going with 10MHz LTE now even in places where it may seem they can.  Because they can't.

 

However, they will reach a threshold in time that these really high capacity 1x/EVDO sites usage starts to go down.  Especially with VoLTE coming online.  Or possibly a reduced voice usage threshold in time.  But as the years go on, the benefit of a 10MHz PCS LTE carrier goes down.  The more and more B41 coverage comes online, especially infill coverage, the less important it becomes.  We are seeing B25 5MHz go up in a lot of places as B41 capacity and coverage improve.

 

Sprint should do it where they can implement it.  Don't get me wrong.  I just wanted to illustrate it is not quite as easy as your post may make it seem.  The high capacity CDMA sites are significant encumbrance.  And they are in some of the most customer sensitive areas.  Like stadiums, airports, malls and event areas.

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Think M2M.  Millions of customers, or better would be to say millions of active devices..  Also, not all Sprint customers have smartphones.  Even if 90% of Sprint customers have CDMA 800 capable devices, that leave over 5M who do not.  But only recently has M2M started supporting 800MHz.  And there is less incentive to upgrade these as they just perform a simple function.  There is no consumer demand for a new product.

 

Additionally, if I remember correctly the EVO did not support CDMA 800.  It's been since the EVO 3D, if memory serves.  Also, there were a few notable devices after the EVO 3D that did not support BC10, and there were some angry folks.  Wasn't one of them the original Photon?  Or maybe the GS2?

 

EDIT:  Heck, Sprint can't even get BC10 to work on the Note 2!!!

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating the removal of 1x on PCS, never. 

 

Just remarking that even feature phones have been seeded for quite some time, and with customer's upgrade cycles, perhaps something similar to the iDen shut down could be done if necessary.

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I disagree.  They have to be able to do it in the whole market or not at all.  It's the issue of lowest common denominator.  To explain, if there are a few sites that need 6-10 CDMA carriers in a market, you can't deploy a mixed solution.  It all has to be one way or the other.  You cannot deploy 10x10 LTE throughout the market and keep the high capacity CDMA where needed.  They would interfere.  Catastrophically.

 

You either have to say we will live with insufficient CDMA capacity at the high capacity sites, or live without redundant 10x10 PCS LTE that is being covered by 20MHz B41 LTE.  This shows why Sprint is not jumping right in and going with 10MHz LTE now even in places where it may seem they can.  Because they can't.

 

However, they will reach a threshold in time that these really high capacity 1x/EVDO sites usage starts to go down.  Especially with VoLTE coming online.  Or possibly a reduced voice usage threshold in time.  But as the years go on, the benefit of a 10MHz PCS LTE carrier goes down.  The more and more B41 coverage comes online, especially infill coverage, the less important it becomes.  We are seeing B25 5MHz go up in a lot of places as B41 capacity and coverage improve.

 

Sprint should do it where they can implement it.  Don't get me wrong.  I just wanted to illustrate it is not quite as easy as your post may make it seem.  The high capacity CDMA sites are significant encumbrance.  And they are in some of the most customer sensitive areas.  Like stadiums, airports, malls and event areas.

 

Or go the T-Mobile approach in those EDGE markets and just reduce voice capacity drastically in order to appear data strong.

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Or go the T-Mobile approach in those EDGE markets and just reduce voice capacity drastically in order to appear data strong.

 

This is an option.  I would advise against it since the B41 deployment is occurring very rapidly adding LTE capacity, and Triband adoption is happening pretty darn fast now.  Normal customers are upgrading at a much faster rate than M2M.  But Sprint should do things to try to get the network down to one 1x 800 carrier and one 1x and EVDO 1900 carrier.  Then use any remaining PCS assets for LTE.  

 

They may be able to get there in another year or so, in some markets.  But it will be limited to only a small number of markets for some time.  In about a quarter of Sprint markets, Sprint won't be able to do even a 5MHz PCS LTE carrier in A-F blocks until all of CDMA is decommissioned in PCS in that market.  Fortunately because of the USCC spectrum transaction, Fort Wayne, Indiana and Champaign/Urbana, Illinois are no longer in that position.  But I believe Houston still is.

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Doesn't Sprint have 40 MHz of contiguous PCS spectrum in St. Louis after swapping PCS with AT&T post-USCC buyout? 

 

Isn't it 20x20 and not 40?

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