Jump to content

The 20mhz/40mhz 2.4ghz/5.8.ghz wifi thread


rf40928
 Share

Recommended Posts

Quick question about Roberts testing. Was the 35 cap a limitation of the note 2s wifi or the router wifi? Or both? If you tested 2 devices at the same time would they both max out at 35 each or a combination of 35. And when you connect via usb later this weekend can you also connect another device via wifi? A simultaneous test would be interesting.

 

Sent from my cm_tenderloin using Tapatalk HD

 

 

I think in alot of situations this would be a limitation of many routers due to being single band and/ or 2.4 Ghz -which has alot of traffic  .. So Unless on dual band or tripple band router - you are using a single band your typical dl speed is the most 30mbps. On dual band it should give you a close 75mbps.  I posted a couple times, but my iPhone 5 will sometimes download as slow as 12 Mb/s on Wifi 2.4 Ghz..  yet once I switch to 5Ghz Im at 50 Mb/s all day long ...

 

Note 2 supports wireless N technology for both 2.4/5Ghz bands leh. Therefore the minimum "theoretical speed" attainable should be 130Mbps according to agreed supported standards..  

 

I've found a few threads of people claiming to hit near 50 on the N2 .. and one of some uploading at 42 on the N2... but most are saying 30 Mb/s and most of those folks are using 2.4Ghz routers ..

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think in alot of situations this would be a limitation of many routers due to being single band and/ or 2.4 Ghz -which has alot of traffic  .. So Unless on dual band or tripple band router - you are using a single band your typical dl speed is the most 30mbps. On dual band it should give you a close 75mbps.  I posted a couple times, but my iPhone 5 will sometimes download as slow as 12 Mb/s on Wifi 2.4 Ghz..  yet once I switch to 5Ghz Im at 50 Mb/s all day long ...

 

 

Not sure where to begin with this quote of post here.  Dual band, triple band?  Never seen one that is more than 2.4/5.8. 

 

Let's just start all over.  802.11n regardless of being 2.4 or 5.8, with a 20mhz single channel and single spatial stream(one antenna) is limited to 65/72 megabits.  The 7 megabit variation depends on the guard interval used.  It's basic rule of thumb even being in a perfectly quiet wifi location right next to the router that you're going to get a tad bit over half of the handshake rate.   For instance 65 megabits... you might be able to swing 35-36 megabits..give or take. 

 

Most smartphones, tablets, streamers, and other cheap wifi cards in laptops are limited to one spatial stream, with many devices limited to 20mhz wide on the 2.4 band.  Some smartphones that have 5.8 band capabilities are able to take advantage of 40mhz channel which pretty much doubles this 65/72 number. 

 

There's a very simple chart on wikipedia explaining the handshake rates based on the number of spatial streams, guard interval, channel width, etc.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11n-2009#Data_rates

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure where to begin with this quote of post here.  Dual band, triple band?  Never seen one that is more than 2.4/5.8. 

 

Let's just start all over.  802.11n regardless of being 2.4 or 5.8, with a 20mhz single channel and single spatial stream(one antenna) is limited to 65/72 megabits.  The 7 megabit variation depends on the guard interval used.  It's basic rule of thumb even being in a perfectly quiet wifi location right next to the router that you're going to get a tad bit over half of the handshake rate.   For instance 65 megabits... you might be able to swing 35-36 megabits..give or take. 

 

Most smartphones, tablets, streamers, and other cheap wifi cards in laptops are limited to one spatial stream, with many devices limited to 20mhz wide on the 2.4 band.  Some smartphones that have 5.8 band capabilities are able to take advantage of 40mhz channel which pretty much doubles this 65/72 number. 

 

There's a very simple chart on wikipedia explaining the handshake rates based on the number of spatial streams, guard interval, channel width, etc.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11n-2009#Data_rates

 

 

rf40928 says:  I'm at work and while I can't go into a long reply right now I have a 'true' dual band at home ( two chips inside the router which broadcast both 2.4 and 5Ghz simulataneously with 3 sids for 5ghz and another 3 sids for 2.4 ghz..  ) ASUS RT N66R router.. best one out there IMHO.. THE Asus RT 66U is the same router.. ( R stands for retail version.. The U is ordered direct from Asus )

 

Tri-band routers are a  newer  thing  .. these routers have a third radio that operates on the currently unlicensed 60GHz frequency band. Using a new technique to beam the radio signal directly to the antennas of connected devices (a process called beamforming) allows some of these routers to achieve data throughput rates of 7Gbps – considerably faster than the measly 300Mbps that 802.11n routers are capable of. 

 

Some tri band info

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-34439_1-57562769/qualcomm-and-wilocity-mix-wi-fi-and-wigig-demo-first-tri-band-consumer-products/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

rf40928 says:  I'm at work and while I can't go into a long reply right now I have a 'true' dual band at home ( two chips inside the router which broadcast both 2.4 and 5Ghz simulataneously with 3 sids for 5ghz and another 3 sids for 2.4 ghz..  ) ASUS RT N66R router.. best one out there IMHO.. THE Asus RT 66U is the same router.. ( R stands for retail version.. The U is ordered direct from Asus )

 

Tri-band routers are a  newer  thing  .. these routers have a third radio that operates on the currently unlicensed 60GHz frequency band. Using a new technique to beam the radio signal directly to the antennas of connected devices (a process called beamforming) allows some of these routers to achieve data throughput rates of 7Gbps – considerably faster than the measly 300Mbps that 802.11n routers are capable of. 

 

Some tri band info

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-34439_1-57562769/qualcomm-and-wilocity-mix-wi-fi-and-wigig-demo-first-tri-band-consumer-products/

 

Which none of it makes a hill of beans...  no need for a long reply.  We aren't talking about your router at home, we are talking about the hotspot.  You are continuing to get confused by marketing. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure where to begin with this quote of post here.  Dual band, triple band?  Never seen one that is more than 2.4/5.8. 

 

Let's just start all over.  802.11n regardless of being 2.4 or 5.8, with a 20mhz single channel and single spatial stream(one antenna) is limited to 65/72 megabits.  The 7 megabit variation depends on the guard interval used.  It's basic rule of thumb even being in a perfectly quiet wifi location right next to the router that you're going to get a tad bit over half of the handshake rate.   For instance 65 megabits... you might be able to swing 35-36 megabits..give or take. 

 

Most smartphones, tablets, streamers, and other cheap wifi cards in laptops are limited to one spatial stream, with many devices limited to 20mhz wide on the 2.4 band.  Some smartphones that have 5.8 band capabilities are able to take advantage of 40mhz channel which pretty much doubles this 65/72 number. 

 

There's a very simple chart on wikipedia explaining the handshake rates based on the number of spatial streams, guard interval, channel width, etc.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11n-2009#Data_rates

 

 

rf40928 says:  I'm at work and while I can't go into a long reply right now I have a 'true' dual band at home ( two chips inside the router which broadcast both 2.4 and 5Ghz simulataneously with 3 sids for 5ghz and another 3 sids for 2.4 ghz..  ) ASUS RT N66R router.. best one out there IMHO.. THE Asus RT 66U is the same router.. ( R stands for retail version.. The U is ordered direct from Asus )

 

Tri-band routers are a  newer  thing  .. these routers have a third radio that operates on the currently unlicensed 60GHz frequency band. Using a new technique to beam the radio signal directly to the antennas of connected devices (a process called beamforming) allows some of these routers to achieve data throughput rates of 7Gbps – considerably faster than the measly 300Mbps that 802.11n routers are capable of. 

 

Some tri band info

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-34439_1-57562769/qualcomm-and-wilocity-mix-wi-fi-and-wigig-demo-first-tri-band-consumer-products/

 

I'll add to this now and say because I can broadcast 2.4 and 5 Ghz at the same time ( with 3 customizeable sid's EACH ) I can do alot of experiements.  I had my pc on 2.4 ghz 20mhz.. would never hit even 30 Mb/s download.. some channels Id get close.. but mostly once I changed to 40 Mhz I could.   Ive looked at neighbors broadcast and channels over windows.  And changed my routers 2.4 Ghz channel to one away from the other channels.. this would mostly increase speed obviously.  While my Pc was on one of my 2.4 Ghz sids.. My wife iPad 4 is on the 5ghz.. downloading at 50 Mb/s... which neither the phone or ipad will hit 50 on 2.4 Ghz at all.. but they did show improvement with speed for channels.. I gave my son his own 2.4 ghz sid for the xbox.. my wife and I share our own  2.4 ghz sid.. and one is unused... For the three (5Ghz) sid's.. only one is used for the ipad and iphone.. I can set the router to throttle each sid as well as set priorities.. throttling does work by the way ( some think it doesn't because you can;t control how fast the data comes from the provider )... but you can still to a certain extent.  Because you control the upload speed and can assign bandwidth of upload to each sid..  Also when you set priority and the cable company is waiting on the upload ( so it can then download ) the router will send it according to the prioirty you set.. I can tell this works when i do speed test..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which none of it makes a hill of beans...  no need for a long reply.  We aren't talking about your router at home, we are talking about the hotspot.  You are continuing to get confused by marketing. 

 

Ok sorry to you, but I wasnt confused.  I should have clarified more.

I also didn't mean to offend anyone.

 

I wasn't talking mainly  about a hotspot, but I compared it to a home Wi-Fi because both broadcast with a small amount of power - jusy a few mW's  ( milliwatts ) ..

 

You more or less said you'd never heard of a tri band .. so a some point we must have been on the same page because we know there are tri band hotspots now. 

 

I was replying to those  saying they couldn't hit a certain speed on their notes with wifi 2.4ghz.. and giving my experiences with channel interference on wi fi at home.. basically stating how much interference you get when broadcasting over 2.4 on any wifi that broadcast with such little power... even if you're literally 12 inches away you can be picking up signals that maybe very weak and cutting back speeds.  That's when I brought in my home network and my experiments with 5Ghz.  The huge difference I saw in  speed by simply going to a less populated 5Ghz spectrum ( that also can't go as far - means less outside interference )  showed how optimal speeds on 2.4Ghz was a pipe dream on my own cell phone and ipad.

 

You can't sweep away the interference problem on a overpopulated spectrum with 2.4.  Any unlicensed device, any microwave oven, cordless phones, bluetooth devices, wireless video cameras, outdoor cellular microwave links, wireless game controllers, zigbee devices, fluorescent lights, WiMAX devices, and even bad electrical connections can cause broad RF spectrum emissions. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok sorry to you... but I wasnt confused.. I wasnt talking about a hotspot.. I was replying to people saying they couldn't hit a certain speed on their notes with wifi 2.4ghz.. and giving my experiences with channel interference on wi fi at home.. basically stating how much interference you get when broadcasting over 2.4 on any wifi.. it limits alot - home or not.

And he said the reason for lower speeds is lower bandwidth, 20 MHz, not necessarily 2.4 ghz. If you're in the middle of a field, there's no 2.4 ghz interference.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And he said the reason for lower speeds is lower bandwidth, 20 MHz, not necessarily 2.4 ghz. If you're in the middle of a field, there's no 2.4 ghz interference.

I compared hotspot to  home wfi because both are broadcasting with just a few milliwatts of power.

 

I get the  20 Mhz versus 40Mhz which I understood.. but when Ive done 2.4 Ghz 20Mhz versus 40 Mhz it made very little difference for my peak speed on the iphone/ ipad. 

 

Right now I have my main 5Ghz sid broadcasting on the 20 Mhz channel bandwidth. 

This is how I came to the conclusion I did.

 

I can be 20wide or 40wide on 2.4 Mhz.. and the iPhone would rarely hit 25 Mb/s .. yet I switch to only 20Mhz 5Ghz spectrum and I'm downloading at 50 Mb/s ..

 

Still 20 Mhz.. only went to 5ghz.. yet while I'm remaining on 20Mhz I doubled my speed.. I only changed from 2.4 to 5 Ghz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I compared hotspot to home wfi because both are broadcasting with just a few milliwatts of power.

 

I get the 20 Mhz versus 40Mhz which I understood.. but when Ive done 2.4 Ghz 20Mhz versus 40 Mhz it made very little difference for my peak speed on the iphone/ ipad.

 

Right now I have my main 5Ghz sid broadcasting on the 20 Mhz channel bandwidth.

This is how I came to the conclusion I did.

 

I can be 20wide or 40wide on 2.4 Mhz.. and the iPhone would rarely hit 25 Mb/s .. yet I switch to only 20Mhz 5Ghz spectrum and I'm downloading at 50 Mb/s ..

 

Still 20 Mhz.. only went to 5ghz.. yet while I'm remaining on 20Mhz I doubled my speed.. I only changed from 2.4 to 5 Ghz

I already covered the reasons why you saw no difference with your 20mhz only devices.

 

Bangs head....

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I already covered the reasons why you saw no difference with your 20mhz only devices.

 

Bangs head....

So how come when I kept the bandwidth at 20 Mhz I doubled my speed by simply going to the less populated higher frequency? 

 

I'm getting a lot of traffic over 2.4 Ghz from neighbors -- when I run "netsh wlan show networks mode=bssid" in windows command prompt.. to check..

 

I figured less overlapping with neighbors channels..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So how come when I kept the bandwidth at 20 Mhz I doubled my speed by simply going to the less populated higher frequency? 

 

The long and short of it:  noise and interference.  The ISM 2.4 GHz band is overpopulated with microwaves, baby monitors, and of course, wireless routers.  The ISM 5 GHz band has lesser propagation/reception characteristics, but it is a much larger band and far less crowded with common usage.

 

AJ

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When you changed your 2.4ghz from 20mhz to 40mhz your phone and ipad were still connected at 20mhz with 1 spatial stream.

 

Ok - I got this.  But when I switched to 5Ghz - I kept the bandwidth set to 20 Mhz.. I didn't increase it.  Yes, I did an experiment where the PC got better speed ( on 2.4 Ghz ) when I went to 40 Mhz.. but still nowhere near peak speed.

 

The long and short of it:  noise and interference.  The ISM 2.4 GHz band is overpopulated with microwaves, baby monitors, and of course, wireless routers.  The ISM 5 GHz band has lesser propagation/reception characteristics, but it is a much larger band and far less crowded with common usage.

 

AJ

What you said it was Ive been trying to say. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When you changed your 2.4ghz from 20mhz to 40mhz your phone and ipad were still connected at 20mhz with 1 spatial stream.

I may not understand this to the depth you do, but...

 

I will say The iPhone 5 is 20 & 40 Mhz capable..Wouldn't it go to 40 Mhz (?) when I switched 2.4 Ghz from a 20 Wide to a 40 Wide....?  When I did I  saw little difference -

 

Iit is THEN at that point I logged the iP5 off the 2.4 Ghz sid.... and on to the 5Ghz sid broadcast of my router ( which was set at 20 Mhz - not 40 Mhz ) that I saw the HUGE increased in performance..

 

This was my whole point - saying the overcrowded 2.4 spectrum would not give optimal results when you're shooting for just that from a hotspot or home router broadcasting with just milliwatts of power.  This was in response to someone saying their NOTE 2 wouldn't do over so and so speed over 2.4 Ghz while I couldn't get my iPhone 5 to do barely half the download ( of my Time Warner 50 down 5 up  connection ) until I simply went to a less crowded frequency

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When you changed your 2.4ghz from 20mhz to 40mhz your phone and ipad were still connected at 20mhz with 1 spatial stream.

 

Lets say the devices stayed at 20 Mhz.. when  switched to 40 Mhz - WHILE STILL at 2.4 Ghz.. Ok - yes I see there wouldn't be increase in performance..

 

My point was I kept 5Ghz at 20 Mhz.. and saw a doubling of speed .. 50 Mb/s down everytime.. Without widening the channel to 40

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The long and short of it:  noise and interference.  The ISM 2.4 GHz band is overpopulated with microwaves, baby monitors, and of course, wireless routers.  The ISM 5 GHz band has lesser propagation/reception characteristics, but it is a much larger band and far less crowded with common usage.

 

AJ

Yes I can pick up neighbors 200+ feet away on 2.4...  I can walk 60 feet away and barely pick up my 5Ghz.. while the 2.4 is fine..

The one thing I like about this Asus.. is I can increase or decrease my broadcast signal strength in the firmware.  Can have the 2.4 chip set at 120 mW.... while at the same time bump the 5Ghz broadcast up to 200 mW for a boost..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When you changed your 2.4ghz from 20mhz to 40mhz your phone and ipad were still connected at 20mhz with 1 spatial stream.

Thank you for the work you do and also even if we weren't fully getting each other being patient.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for the work you do and also even if we weren't fully getting each other being patient.

 

Bear with us.  While running an ever growing, non profit site, we moderators and authors sometimes get a bit chippy.  I am certainly guilty of that.  We mean well, but we do get frustrated at the omnipresent questions and work load at times.

 

AJ

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bear with us.  While running an ever growing, non profit site, we moderators and authors sometimes get a bit chippy.  I am certainly guilty of that.  We mean well, but we do get frustrated at the omnipresent questions and work load at times.

 

AJ

 

I understand.   I work in healthcare with a broad variety of people. I serve an even broader variety of patients to whom some are very gracious and thankful while others are hateful..

 

Thanks

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I have a few questions maybe someone out there knows the answers to

 

1. I live in a very rural area so 40mhz on 2.4ghz is very suitable for me. If I set my router to use only 40mhz on 2.4ghz what happens when a wireless N adapter that only supports 150mbps connects to the router? Does it just limit the speed of that adapter or does it reduce the whole network down to the slower speed as well as reduce it down to 20mhz?

 

2. This is an easier question: In my advanced settings to my adapter I have an option for "20/40 coexistence mode" and the settings are either Auto, Enabled, or Disabled what exactly does that do. I have googled and have only found answers to what these settings do on routers and not adapters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • large.unreadcontent.png.6ef00db54e758d06

  • gallery_1_23_9202.png

  • Posts

    • Did my drive from PHX to SEA & got to experience the terribleness that is the totem lake area. Impressive, speed test didn't complete either time.
    • Weird that they'd go back to the Edge+. Would think they'd let folks use the S22 just like with Genesis. In other news, St. Louis has 10x10 n71 + n66 SDL live. A bit more info here:  
    • Wonder what other spectrum the auto industry can use, how much of the 5.9GHz was being used, and if 30MHz will be enough 20 or 30 years from now. The auto industry has had it for 20 years sure, but technology can move really slow.  It isn't good.  It isn't ready for real world applications. The hardware is too slow to be able to process enough reliable data. It is too expensive.  Etc. I would argue that we are just getting to the point where features that I would assume could use 5.9GHz are just now hitting mass market as the code is better, hardware is not only significantly faster but also cheaper. The baseline trim models still lack a lot of safety features but the next trim up usually comes with a bunch of goodies I'd assume could make use of 5.9GHz. Just imagine where we were in 2005, 2010, 2015.  Mostly just assumptions without enough knowledge of the spectrum use, so a hint of skepticism. With the what, 1.2GHz that opened up in the 6GHz range, getting 45MHz out of 5.9GHz is very meh.
    • Cool find! Been there since 2018 according to Cellmapper. The only other time I've seen them leave up a temp site like this for a long period of time was when a nearby site is temporarily inoperable like the one in Red Hook Houses. That doesn't seem to be the case here and it's pretty much a GMO site at this point. My best guess is that T-Mobile wanted to put a site there to fill in coverage but because it's on LGA's grounds getting the actual permission to do so is extremely complex so they worked out a deal with the Port Authority to put up a COW in the meantime.  
    • Would this be a T-Mobile COW outside LGA Terminal A? eNB 49106 seems to line up to its position, plus the arm for the trailer to hook onto a truck says T-Mobile. Here is the NYC streetcar view the image was pulled from.     For all the years I have been monitoring the DAS, I have never gotten -55 or better, even after passing by every antenna in a station that is deep enough to have 0 outside macros reaching in. The SNR is still 20+, so its probably designed that way on purpose.
  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...