Sprint 800 MHz LTE Set For Launch In 2014

[MacinJosh]

Yes and no. EVO LTE will use Sprint's 1xAdvanced on 800 and 1900. The EVO LTE is 3G EVDO "capable" on 800, but Sprint has no plans to put 3G EVDO on 800 SMR. But if they ever should, the device could use it.

 

Robert

 

I'm curious: Why make a device compatible with 3G EVDO on 800 SMR when you have no plans to put EVDO on the SMR Band to begin with?

[S4GRU]

I'm curious: Why make a device compatible with 3G EVDO on 800 SMR when you have no plans to put EVDO on the SMR Band to begin with?

 

They didn't go through any extraordinary measures to "make it." Given all the other requirements of the device that were necessary, it just is. And it's not a bad thing. It will give Sprint flexibility in the future.

 

There are many places geographically where Sprint will not have enough SMR spectrum to deploy a 5x5 LTE carrier. They could elect in those locations to at least install an EVDO carrier for customers to use. However, I have never seen one document that says Sprint plans to do this. But it is something they could do.

 

Robert

[WiWavelength]

I'm curious: Why make a device compatible with 3G EVDO on 800 SMR when you have no plans to put EVDO on the SMR Band to begin with?

 

EV-DO 800 capability is already baked into the chipset, power amp module, and antenna configuration. Locking out the capability would require more work than simply letting it go unused.

 

AJ

[MacinJosh]

They didn't go through any extraordinary measures to "make it." Given all the other requirements of the device that were necessary, it just is. And it's not a bad thing. It will give Sprint flexibility in the future.

 

There are many places geographically where Sprint will not have enough SMR spectrum to deploy a 5x5 LTE carrier. They could elect in those locations to at least install an EVDO carrier for customers to use. However, I have never seen one document that says Sprint plans to do this. But it is something they could do.

 

Robert

 

EV-DO 800 capability is already baked into the chipset, power amp module, and antenna configuration. Locking out the capability would require more work than simply letting it go unused.

 

AJ

 

Standard manufacturing process. I get it now. Thanks.

[WiWavelength]

Does the EVO 4G LTE contain an unmentioned second Qualcomm modem so as to enable SVDO? Or does the S4 MSM8960 internally contain multiple radios, such that it can do SVDO by itself? Those are the greater questions right now.

 

AJ

[MacinJosh]

Does the EVO 4G LTE contain an unmentioned second Qualcomm modem so as to enable SVDO? Or does the S4 MSM8960 internally contain multiple radios, such that it can do SVDO by itself? Those are the greater questions right now.

 

AJ

 

Wouldn't the modems be shown on some diagram from the FCC filing?

[WiWavelength]

Wouldn't the modems be shown on some diagram from the FCC filing?

 

No, internal processing is not the purview of the FCC. The FCC is concerned primarily with external radiation. So, typical FCC OET filings make no mention of the the actual baseband radio.

 

AJ

[MacinJosh]

No, internal processing is not the purview of the FCC. The FCC is concerned primarily with external radiation. So, typical FCC OET filings make no mention of the the actual baseband radio.

 

AJ

 

Ah. So when will we know? When it's released and someone tears it apart?

[EarlyMon]

Does the EVO 4G LTE contain an unmentioned second Qualcomm modem so as to enable SVDO? Or does the S4 MSM8960 internally contain multiple radios, such that it can do SVDO by itself? Those are the greater questions right now.

 

AJ

 

I believe that it's a common myth that Qualcomm SoCs contain radios. When considering the RF that must be managed to deal with bus crosstalk within the SoC (system on (a) chip), adding raw antenna inputs and managing to that would drive costs through the roof.

 

According to Qualcomm, here's the modem set built-in to the S4 SoC -

 

Snapdragon S4 Processor MSM8960 chipset includes the industry’s only complete platform that integrates all of the world’s leading 2G, 3G and 4G mobile broadband modem technologies on a single chip. This new integrated multimode modem is based on an advanced, programmable architecture that is performance, size and power optimized for the fastest combination of modems available for:

• LTE FDD/TDD (Cat3)
  
• 3G (DC-HSPA+ Cat 24)
  
• EV-DO Rev. B
  
• 1x Advanced
  
• TD-SCDMA
  
• GSM/GPRS/EDGE
  

(and)

 

For LTE handsets, the 8960 modem enables UMTS/GSM voice and LTE data (CSFB), as well as simultaneous CDMA voice with LTE data (SVLTE).

 

(and)

 

Mobile broadband technologies are growing increasingly complex in their implementation. LTE is currently being implemented in over 40 different radio frequency bands throughout the world. To complement its wide range of modem standards supported, Qualcomm has designed the Snapdragon S4 Processor MSM8960 CHIPSET platform to address all commonly-used frequencies (from 700–2600 MHz) and bandwidths up to 20 MHz, allowing its customers to address any mobile network opportunity whether the sim- plest single frequency implementation to the most extensive multi-frequency global mode, whether 4G, 3G or 2G.

 

(and)

 

Industry’s first fully integrated 3G/4G world/multimode LTE Modem: Supports all of the world’s leading 2G, 3G and 4G LTE standards. It also includes integrated support for multiple satellite position networks (GPS and GLONASS) as well as short range radios via Bluetooth, WiFi, FM and NFC.

 

From http://www.qualcomm....-new-mobile-age

 

Note, PDF download required.

 

Hope this isn't redundant and is somewhat helpful.

 

Wouldn't the modems be shown on some diagram from the FCC filing?

 

The Evo 3D submission to the FCC included a full schematic, with part numbers, that was fortunately leaked - I don't know if that's happened before or since, but was hoping for it with this phone (one can always hope). If we can get a leaked schematic, then as with the 3D, we can nail the entire phone's capabilities per various semiconductor data sheets and answer a lot of questions.

 

Sadly, as AJ suggests and you say, we'll most likely be stuck waiting for a teardown, and those aren't always complete.

Edited April 14, 2012 by EarlyMon

[MacinJosh]

The Evo 3D submission to the FCC included a full schematic' date=' with part numbers, that was fortunately leaked - I don't know if that's happened before or since, but was hoping for it with this phone (one can always hope). If we can get a leaked schematic, then as with the 3D, we can nail the entire phone's capabilities per various semiconductor data sheets and answer a lot of questions.

 

Sadly, as AJ suggests and you say, we'll most likely be stuck waiting for a teardown, and those aren't always complete.[/quote']

 

I guess we will just have to wait then.

 

Sent from Joshs Evo Shift using Forum Runner

[EarlyMon]

Except for the modem data, yes.

[irev210]

Yeah just hopefully when this happens the settings in the phone for it allow the user to configure it some on their end easily. With clear live I'd like to know exactly what LTE network I'm connected to and the signal strength of it...there may be times ill rather be on sprints and will hate being forced to clears if not better fully...

Something that Sprint and micro smith deal will handle likely...just interested how it all will look once done...

 

Have a feeling that we won't be able to tweak connecting to clearwire or not from a general user standpoint, which will kinda suck imho...

 

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

I was wondering the same thing. I am curious how clearwire's LTE deployment will go and if it will be plagued with some of the same issues I see with their WiMAX network.

[lrmcgarvey]

Makes me sad. I was really hoping Sprint would put EVDO on the 800 band to improve coverage.

[MacinJosh]

Makes me sad. I was really hoping Sprint would put EVDO on the 800 band to improve coverage.

 

By the time they finish rolling out LTE, they will try to get most people to have LTE for data and lessen the number of EVDO users anyway.

 

Sent from Joshs Evo Shift using Forum Runner

[4ringsnbr]

Makes me sad. I was really hoping Sprint would put EVDO on the 800 band to improve coverage.

 

Until the FCC approves LTE in ESMR (if it ever does), I would expect an EVDO carrier or 2 in ESMR since almost all Sprint phones sold the past 18 months do support it and it will help the capacity constrained markets. And not a single planned LTE phone from Sprint supports LTE in 800. Plus, it will take a couple years of LTE availability to have sufficient LTE market penetration to warrant more than a single carrier (the PCS G block being the primary carrier).

[WiWavelength]

Until the FCC approves LTE in ESMR (if it ever does)...

 

You do everyone a disservice with your insistent pessimism about broadband operation within ESMR of the SMR 800 MHz band. On the contrary, the wheels are already in motion for FCC approval. Please see the article that we published a month ago, the FCC proposed rulemaking, and the two relevant FCC dockets:

 

http://s4gru.com/ind...band-operation/

http://transition.fc...FCC-12-25A1.pdf

http://apps.fcc.gov/...iew?name=11-110

http://apps.fcc.gov/...oro7&name=12-64

 

Take this to the bank: the FCC will approve ESMR broadband operation (which inherently includes LTE), and it will happen this year.

 

AJ

[4ringsnbr]

You do everyone a disservice with your insistent pessimism about broadband operation within ESMR of the SMR 800 MHz band. On the contrary, the wheels are already in motion for FCC approval. Please see the article that we published a month ago, the FCC proposed rulemaking, and the two relevant FCC dockets:

 

http://s4gru.com/ind...band-operation/

http://transition.fc...FCC-12-25A1.pdf

http://apps.fcc.gov/...iew?name=11-110

http://apps.fcc.gov/...oro7&name=12-64

 

Take this to the bank: the FCC will approve ESMR broadband operation (which inherently includes LTE), and it will happen this year.

 

AJ

 

Maybe so, but it won't change the fact that there are about 15 million EVDO ESMR capable handsets in operation today on the Sprint network. No LTE ESMR handsets are available or even planned (as far as we know). It is logical to deduce that 2-3 years from now, there will be 15-20+ million EVDO ESMR handsets out there when the first (possible) LTE ESMR handsets hit the market or have maybe 1 million devices in use. If Sprint has any sense, they will run EVDO in ESMR for a couple of years at least until the LTE needs present themselves.

[ericdabbs]

Maybe so, but it won't change the fact that there are about 15 million EVDO ESMR capable handsets in operation today on the Sprint network. No LTE ESMR handsets are available or even planned (as far as we know). It is logical to deduce that 2-3 years from now, there will be 15-20+ million EVDO ESMR handsets out there when the first (possible) LTE ESMR handsets hit the market or have maybe 1 million devices in use. If Sprint has any sense, they will run EVDO in ESMR for a couple of years at least until the LTE needs present themselves.

 

If Sprint gets FCC approval for 800 MHz LTE before the end of this year, I doubt it will be very long until handsets contain the necessary antennas to support band class 26. I think we could start seeing LTE phones with 800/1900/2500 MHz by mid year 2013 if that happened. I agree with AJ, I don't think running EVDO in ESMR will make any sense since by the time Sprint has enough ESMR spectrum freed up it could deploy LTE directly.

[lrmcgarvey]

I agree with 4ringsnbr,

While LTE in the 800 band sounds great. Why not deploy EVDO in that band for a year or two since you have millions of phones that can use it now? Instead they are going to go straight to LTE in the 800 band which no device on thier network can even use.

 

Seems like it would be a great step, (even if not long term), to free up spectrum for markets that are so congested that they are almost unusable.

 

Not sure which is worse AT&T and Verizon squating on bands and not using them. Or sprint rolling out services on bands that no one can use.

[MacinJosh]

It is a waste of money to build out ESMR EVDO only to replace it with 800 LTE a year or 2 later. Jumping straight to LTE after shutting down iDEN is a cheaper, more effective solution. Sprint is trying to save money on Network Vision, not spend extra they don't need to.

 

Sent from Joshs iPhone 3Gs using Forum Runner

[4ringsnbr]

It is a waste of money to build out ESMR EVDO only to replace it with 800 LTE a year or 2 later. Jumping straight to LTE after shutting down iDEN is a cheaper, more effective solution. Sprint is trying to save money on Network Vision, not spend extra they don't need to.

 

Sent from Joshs iPhone 3Gs using Forum Runner

They don't have to "build out" EVDO ESMR... the SDR radios with NV on ESMR can be loaded with EVDO, 1xA, or LTE remotely. In a traditional network build, it would be a waste to do EVDO for a couple of years, but with NV and software defined radios, there is far less investment in making the changes.

[S4GRU]

I agree with 4ringsnbr,

While LTE in the 800 band sounds great. Why not deploy EVDO in that band for a year or two since you have millions of phones that can use it now? Instead they are going to go straight to LTE in the 800 band which no device on thier network can even use.

 

Seems like it would be a great step, (even if not long term), to free up spectrum for markets that are so congested that they are almost unusable.

 

Not sure which is worse AT&T and Verizon squating on bands and not using them. Or sprint rolling out services on bands that no one can use.

 

Because Sprint can't start deploying EVDO carriers on 800 until Fall (just like 1xA). So they would be spending a lot of money to deploy something for less than one years use. Because in less than 12 months they will need to vacate those carriers for LTE800 in that spectrum. A lot of wasted money for carriers that are going to be in use for less than 12 months. Sprint doesn't have the luxury for additional expenses.

 

Also, they would have to vacate more iDEN channels than they are planning now. Sprint is only vacating enough room for Channel 476 in the iDEN thinning. And that is going for the 1xA carrier.

 

These devices only have EVDO 800 capability, because they are coming naturally with it. Why block it? Also, in the future, Sprint will have some weird little pieces of 800 spectrum left over in some markets with irregular sized spectrum holdings. They may be able to take a EVDO carrier that can be used for these devices in those instances.

 

Robert

[lrmcgarvey]

I understand both sides of the argument. Just sounds like Sprints bad planning again or thier plans are changing too fast for them to keep up with. If they knew that they were planning on launching LTE in the 800 band that soon. You would think they would have thought far enough ahead to at least have the LTE flagships they are using to launch thier netowrk be able to use it.

 

"Here buy our flagship HTC EVO 4G LTE device that ushers in Sprints new network vision!! " **

 

** oh, and did we mention that your device in less than a year will only be able to connect to half our LTE network. Thanks for the money.

 

ok, thats a bit harsh, but just comes off as kind of shortsighted on thier part. Oh Well here is hoping that maybe the Galaxy S3 will be able to use both.

[S4GRU]

I think Sprint was planning 800 LTE sooner, and now is pushing it out. Now that Sprint has pushed 800 LTE out another six months, should they try to stick some temp 800 EVDO carriers in there? Heck no.

 

Robert

[lrmcgarvey]

I think Sprint was planning 800 LTE sooner, and now is pushing it out. Now that Sprint has pushed 800 LTE out another six months, should they try to stick some temp 800 EVDO carriers in there? Heck no.

 

Robert

 

Like I said, I understand what you are saying. Just saying that If Sprint knew that it would be coming that soon, (or if they were planning it that soon), why they wouldn't try to have thier new phones, (not even released), try and support it.

 

When is was hinted at coming in 2014 or so, it was really no big deal, as the phones coming out now would be off contract by the time it rolled out and picking up a new one that supported both bands would make sense. Now that it looks like they will be rolling out only halfway into the new LTE phones contracts it kind of seems like bad planning.

 

Also, want to make clear I'm not upset about it, and it won't sway my purchasing decision any. Just trying to understand thier reasoning behind not including it in LTE phones now. Well, I can understand the nexus as its really last years phone. But to not include it in like the El-Tevo which was still in development doesn't make sense.