S4GRU

Report back should you find any sites live with LTE. Would love to update our maps accordingly. Thanks!

Robert

Robert or someone else capable of answering this question, I have read awhile back ( can't remember where though) that with NV upgrade they were putting something closer to the receiver antenna that was normally on the ground with the main equipment. The logic was that it would minimize signal loss and actually improve signal strength quite a bit being up on the tower itself. Is this so and what was it exactly just to refresh my memory?

 

If this is the case then I can't wait for my towers in Charlotte, NC receive the NV upgrades. I am more concerned with Voice coverage more than anything at the house.

Yes, as Josh explains above, Sprint is moving to RRU's in Network Vision. Placing the radio directly behind the antenna. In field testing, the signal gain for doing this is approximately 20%. However, the gain is highly variable depending on the coax that was used at the legacy site and the length of the run. A newer site with a short coax, the gain could be as low as 3% to 5%. At an old boomer (with a 500' run), the gain could be 30% to 40%, possibly even more.

Robert

I had to snicker when I heard the comment made that T-Mobile would be the first to deploy multi-mode components.

 

But that being said, 4 billion sounds about right if you're reusing some equipment and not deploying backhaul.

Multi-mode components is a stretch. However, it does appear to be true they will be the first to deploy integrated radios (combined RRU/Panel assemblies). They are quite stellar to look at the mockups from Ericsson below. Those are so hot, I would hang them in my living room!

Robert

Source: http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/359-integrated-radios/

open fly

As I told Robert yesterday, the Sierra Wireless CDMA1X/EV-DO/WiMAX/LTE hotspot can really radiate some RF. Max ERP on LTE 1900 is 32 dBm and on WiMAX 2600 is 28 dBm. For reference, that is 16x the power output of the EVO 4G LTE and 4x the power output of the EVO 4G, respectively.

 

AJ

With numbers like that, it makes me want to get one! Although, as close as I live to a site, it could be one quarter of the EVO and I'd still be fine.

Robert

I'm still sad you stopped devving for the epic with the SyndicateRom.

All good things must come to an end. Progress...right?

Robert

EvDO Rev. 0 won't surpass 0.16mbit/s upload that's why I assumed it was Rev. 0 as all 3 tests have the same upload speed.

 

I'm assuming with network vision sprint will have more carriers deployed (and actually use their spectrum) so you'll see better speeds even at peak time because the users will be spread across many carriers instead of just one or two. Improved back haul will help out greatly but it doesn't help if you have 100 phones using data on two carriers at peak time (to my understand there is at max 3.1Mbit/s per carrier and that's shared between the connected users.). Beyond that they would have to improve cell density if spectrum becomes constrained.

 

Please correct my if my assumptions are wrong.

You are correct about the limitations of upload speeds on EVDO-0. So I see why you made the assumption. But I often get 160kbps upload speeds (and even lower) on my EVDO-A connection at my home, even with upload speeds over 1Mbps. Strange phenomenon. And when it happens, the MAC Index is still low. I've often wondered if it is a specific user hogging all the upload bandwith in my sector, or related to backhaul.

When it comes to more EVDO carriers, that is occurring in some places. However, it is not a uniform deal across the board. Sprint is reserving some PCS space for additional 5x5 LTE carriers (and sometimes 3x3), where there is enough PCS spectrum remaining in a market to do that.

Sprint has prepared a database that shows existing EVDO demand, and projected EVDO demand for the next 4 years at all 38,000 sites. So when Network Vision arrives, they are adding EVDO carriers for existing demand and demand for the next two years, at most sites, so long as they have the spectrum to add the carriers. If it is a capacity constrained market, or if the spectrum is being reserved for LTE additional capacity, then additional EVDO carriers might not be added.

Also, 3.1Mbps is the maximum theoretical speed. The maximum real speed possible on the Sprint network is 2.6Mbps.

Robert

click on AWS Block C and D for MetroPCS and scroll the map. AWS Block C and D are each a 5x5 block and combined would be a 10x10. Maybe it might be better to say they have two 5x5 chunks in NYC.

OK...I see what you're cooking up now. I only went through the blocks individually and did not try to assemble adjacent frequencies together.

Robert

What is your guy's opinions on how NV is progressing? Is anyone seeing any material benefits yet? I know the most exciting part is the LTE deployment, but how about improved 3G speeds, lower dropped calls, getting signal where you weren't before, etc? Does anyone have any hard data on this matter -- pre/post NV deployment network performance? How would you guys rate the non-LTE benefits of NV?

 

I noticed from your maps that Los Angeles is undergoing a lot of NV deployments, but I have yet to see any material benefits -- mostly seeing pretty poor 3G speeds on the Epic Touch. In fact, I think I would argue that the speeds are lower than they were around this time last year, probably due to the increased # of users on the network. I'm just curious if they haven't flipped the switch yet, or if this is all there is.

They have only completed 36 sites out of 1,063 total LA Metro sites. That is only 3%. 97% more to go. Also, with such a high site density, that means most of these cells are very small. I would doubt you would notice much right now, unless you were standing right next to one of the completed NV sites. And we have a S4GRU member who is going around and checking some LA sites that are complete and has reported his findings, including upgraded speeds.

Network Vision is not a simple upgrade at each site. It is a major tear down and replace of every single piece of equipment, coax, internet backhaul, sweeps, cabinets, radios, panels...it replaces everything at every single site except for the tower/structure itself. It is going to take 10 months to complete a market the size of LA. And perhaps even longer.

Robert

According to that map, MetroPCS also have a 10x10 chunk in NYC and a 5x5 chunk in the northeast area in Philladelphia and Boston.

I clicked on all the MetroPCS 10x10 holdings and did not see one that covers NYC. I just double checked, and still don't see it.

Robert

Migrating customers would probably be difficult. MetroPCS is all non-contract prepaid customers isn't it? They don't have a contract keeping them tied to the service provider.

It would be a challenge. However, even AT&T let Alltel customers out of their contracts when they were forced migrated to AT&T devices.

Robert

I envy you, your area etc... lol. Those look like NV speeds but it's far to early for that. At least I think it is... I'm not sure if Toledo is in the Cleveland market or not. If so it's definitely to early.

Cleveland and Toledo are separate Sprint markets. Network Vision has not started in either of these markets. Cleveland will come first, but probably not until the very end of 2012 or early 2013 start. Toledo will not start until 2013. Some backhaul work will begin in Cleveland by late summer or early fall in advance of NV.

There are no "NV" speeds, per se. The 3G speed increase that will happen after Network Vision is because there will be more ample backhaul to serve 3G customers at each site. There are many pre-NV sites with sufficient backhaul for existing demand. In these cases, NV will not improve speeds.

Robert

That may be 3G but it only looks like EvDO rev. 0 check under status for the EvDO revision.

It is highly unlikely that it is Revision 0. This is a new EVDO deployment. Sprint has not deployed EVDO-0 carriers in many years.

Robert

I was mainly surprised at the latency, here it's 150ms or higher but recently on some towers it's as low as 130ms. So I guess it's slightly improved back haul and possibly more EvDO Carriers added to the base station.

With EVDO, I see a huge variability in latency. I have seen pings as low as 75ms on EVDO at sites with AAV backhaul. And I have seen it as high 400ms on sites that are still functioning at full speed. Backhaul is the biggest determination of the latency on a EVDO connection. Although the core back at the switch location can impact the latency as well, should it become overloaded

Robert

I'm not sure if NV related. My speeds in Milwaukee since May 5th have been as high as 1.2m down. Never seen speeds that fast on 3G. Its pretty consistent, 800k-1000. Pings around 220ms-280ms.

It is not NV related. Network Vision will not start in Milwaukee until Winter at the earliest. There will be some backhaul work in advance, but the new backhaul will not be connected to legacy services. At least that is the plan now.

Robert

I've gotten 2Mbit/s down on Pre-NV towers.

Absolutely. Sites with AAV backhaul can have 3G EVDO speeds up to 2.6Mbps. However, Sprint only started deploying some sites with AAV backhaul since roughly 2009. Virtually none of the EVDO sites before 2009 have AAV. Sites with T1 backhaul max out around 1.4Mbps.

Robert

I think I tend to agree with the Net Neutrality folks on this one.

Robert

Someone beat you to this topic: http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/940-tmobile-in-talks-with-metropcs-about-merger/

Robert

Wouldn't tmo run into problems running two different networks. Like sprint did when they acquired Nextel?

 

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

MetroPCS and Tmo have similar spectrum holdings in AWS/PCS. The new combined company would most likely just phase out the MetroPCS network ASAP, forcing those customers to migrate into new devices (kind of like what ATT did with Alltel). I just think that MetroPCS spectrum just isn't very valuable. You can look at it here: http://specmap.sequence-omega.net/

Also, MetroPCS subscribers aren't very valuable either. And you can't use their network. The only value to MetroPCS, IMHO, is the spectrum. They do have two good 5x5 chunks of AWS in the Western U.S. But other than that, it is highly fractured pieces of 5x5 AWS and PCS...and a 10x10 AWS chunk in some rural Florida, Georgia and California counties.

Robert

We initially reported May 18th for this device back on March 20th. I'm glad the schedule held. Our info comes directly from behind the walls in Overland Park. So anytime our reporting deviates from the final outcome, its because Sprint had to change it for some reason. And that is the reason why Sprint does not report these dates in advance. They are so fluid.

Robert - Posted from my E4GT with ICS using Forum Runner

Crying Game

Robert via Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

 

It definitely has advantages on the basestation side where you can deploy up to 8x8MIMO. Not so clear on the device side' date=' where if you can squeeze 2x2 MIMO you're in business. Maybe on the tablet or laptop side, but I don't see anything more than 2x2 on an iPhone sized handset, do you?[/quote']

 

Agreed. Small and medium sized smartphones are disadvantaged with MIMO larger than 2x2. Even 2x2 is tough in those little guys with an ever expanding frequency set.

 

I'm looking forward to a larger iPhone being released. All of a sudden these iPhoniacs who loved small phones will miraculously love larger devices. Its going to be funny.

 

Robert via Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

 

Besides the buzz of LTE' date=' why would TMobile invest 4 billion into an LTE conversion? HSPA+42 and 84 perform great and as noted outperform LTE in many cases.

 

Is there something in LTE that makes it that much better than continuing to upgrade HSPA?[/quote']

 

All things being equal in the way its deployed, HSPA+ does not out perform LTE. I guess you could argue maybe on the device side there are better performance attributes like battery life and device availability.

 

Robert via Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

Well' date=' sprint has officially confirmed the 18th launch date.

 

Not sure why they were so unsure of the launch date.[/quote']

 

Sounds like deliveries are going to come down to the wire.

 

Robert via Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

bad apple

Robert via Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

pickled herring

chalk lime

rain dance

Thanks for joining S4GRU. Hope to see you around!

Robert