Sectors

[mhammett]

Does anyone know if Sprint reduced the number of radios covering a given sector? It seems like they did in a few places. Signals seem like they're trying to strike a balance between coverage area and close-in capacity and failing at both.

 

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[WiWavelength]

Are you asking about the number of CDMA1X and EV-DO carriers? If anything, Network Vision is increasing the number of deployed carriers.

 

AJ

[mhammett]

Antenna on the tower. In this regard, I am concerned about RF propagation, not data\voice capacity.

[WiWavelength]

In Network Vision, number of sectors tends to remain unchanged -- still typically two or three sectors.  Number of antennas per sector, though, is definitely changing.  In most cases, Network Vision antennas are being deployed at one per sector, while legacy antennas usually ran three per sector.  During the transition, one of the legacy antennas comes down to make way for the new dual band Network Vision antenna.  So, that loss of one antenna per sector could certainly affect legacy RF propagation.

 

We do have several existing threads here with pics of Alcatel-Lucent, Ericsson, and Samsung deployment antenna plus RRU configurations in various stages of completion.

 

AJ

[Boosted20V]

In Network Vision, number of sectors tends to remain unchanged -- still typically two or three sectors.  Number of antennas per sector, though, is definitely changing.  In most cases, Network Vision antennas are being deployed at one per sector, while legacy antennas usually ran three per sector.  During the transition, one of the legacy antennas comes down to make way for the new dual band Network Vision antenna.  So, that loss of one antenna per sector could certainly affect legacy RF propagation.

 

We do have several existing threads here with pics of Alcatel-Lucent, Ericsson, and Samsung deployment antenna plus RRU configurations in various stages of completion.

 

AJ

 

But within each of the panels, they can adjust downtilt independently per antenna, correct? I would imagine if they needed to have antennas pointed in multiple directions, even if the number of carriers didn't call for multiple antennas, they would need to use 2 just to get the RF propagation where they need it.

[WiWavelength]

But within each of the panels, they can adjust downtilt independently per antenna, correct? I would imagine if they needed to have antennas pointed in multiple directions, even if the number of carriers didn't call for multiple antennas, they would need to use 2 just to get the RF propagation where they need it.

 

I am not sure that I follow your train of thought.  Are we talking bands, antennas, elements?  We are trying to retire use of the term "panels."  Regardless, downtilt is separately adjustable per band in the Network Vision dual band antennas.

 

AJ

[lilg740]

In Network Vision, number of sectors tends to remain unchanged -- still typically two or three sectors.  Number of antennas per sector, though, is definitely changing.  In most cases, Network Vision antennas are being deployed at one per sector, while legacy antennas usually ran three per sector.  During the transition, one of the legacy antennas comes down to make way for the new dual band Network Vision antenna.  So, that loss of one antenna per sector could certainly affect legacy RF propagation.

 

We do have several existing threads here with pics of Alcatel-Lucent, Ericsson, and Samsung deployment antenna plus RRU configurations in various stages of completion.

 

AJ

Most legacy sites around here are either 1 or 2 Legacy CDMA antennas or 3 iDen antennas and a CDMA anenna(Synergy)

[mhammett]

*nods* I've contributed some pictures of Samsung gear. I just can't see inside of the antenna or know what was there before. Well, unless there are rust marks on the pipes.

 

Around here a tower has to cover a large geographic area and a lot of users close. Two different directions the antenna have to be tilted for optimal performance (RF and throughput). Do we know what a typical vertical beamwidth is?

 

Some towers here still have at least two antenna per face, but they're short structures near busy areas, so I'd suspect that is for throughput, not RF.

 

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[Substantive]

AppleJack,

 

I think he's saying, on the legacy setup, with multiple carriers spread over multiple (PCS only) antennas, there existed a possibility to have a layered coverage setup by having differing downtilts between the antennas within each sector.

 

With the equipment consolidation (did I see that there were 4 PCS and 2 SMR antennas per Beamwave?) on big sites, the coverage is apparently different to what he had before. I'm wondering if with all the attention now being given to the low/medium/high (SMR/PCS/BRS) solution to the coverage/capacity balance, maybe the objectives are not the same when they are mechanically adjusting the PCS elements since at the very least they are expecting SMR to be along shortly augment range (in addition to the little bit they gained with the RUUs)?

[doug526]

In most of their setups I have seen Sprint use 2 PCS antennae/panel per sector on legacy sites.  In rare cases I've seen them use 3 per sector, and sometimes 1 per sector.

 

Here in my area, TMobile has usually had 3 antenna per sector, and lately with their LTE network refresh they have swapped those older antennas out for 3 brand new antenna per sector plus new RRUs.  Whereas Cricket usually has 1 antenna per sector, Verizon has 2 CDMA antenna and 1 for LTE.  Clearwire generally uses 1 antenna per sector, in some rare cases 2.  AT&T almost always has 4 per sector in (sub)urban areas.

 

It used to be in 802.11b/a/g networks that a radio would require 2 antennae for diversity, thus increasing performance and range.  My RF knowledge is not that great, and not sure how beneficial antenna diversity is in cellular networks.  Because there's multipath and all that crud in the way of our signals. Perhaps with these new hybrid SMR/PCS antennas, that need for two antenna per sector is eliminated, or just combined into a single "panel".  Maybe Network vision 3.0 will go back through and add a second antenna per sector to increase capacity?  Or, is more really less?

 

Maybe someone could point us in the direction of a good whitepaper about the actual function of the number of antennas in relation to RF performance, and the comparison between LTE antenna requirements versus 1X, EVDO, and WCDMA.

[mhammett]

Physically diverse antenna are almost always better.

 

Even with a lower frequency, the antenna will still have to have appropriate vertical beamwidth and tilt.

 

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[digiblur]

There is actually 6 separate antenna arrays inside the one antenna. The 6 are divided into 3 sections. The pairs have a +45 and -45 degree polarization difference for diversity. Each pair also have independent remote downtilt control of 10 degrees.

 

Lots of tech packed into one antenna unit to make a clean install and cut down on lease costs.

[WiWavelength]

Physically diverse antenna are almost always better.

 

This is what I am calling T-Mobile's supposed "4x2 MIMO."  It appears to be just 2x2 MIMO with a second antenna set for spatial diversity.  MIMO should refer to only spatial channels that actually carry distinct traffic.

 

AJ

[halcyoncmdr]

There is actually 6 separate antenna arrays inside the one antenna. The 6 are divided into 3 sections. The pairs have a +45 and -45 degree polarization difference for diversity. Each pair also have independent remote downtilt control of 10 degrees.

 

Lots of tech packed into one antenna unit to make a clean install and cut down on lease costs.

 

THIS IS FULL OF ACCURATE INFORMATION

 

The Network Vision panels have multiple antenna structures inside that can independently be controlled for downtilt remotely. The main panel can be set for a specific downtilt as the baseline, and then each antenna inside the panel can be adjusted according to what it needs for the desired operation.

[bosox801]

I found this at a site here in Draper UT, it has some tech specs of the Antennas they installed at this site. https://www.dropbox.com/s/775g0qob4swefuo/SL03XC306_07162013.pdf

Im sure some of you already know this info but its nice to see it and it is factual and not disputable.