Network vision tower locations and conecctions

[danny1st]

 

 

 

 

Quick question about NV towers. When I look at the tower updates via the Sprint NV official site in my area (zip: 49509) there is a tower (#3) that is about 500 ft directly to the south of my house. According to signal finder and open signal I have never connected to this tower. I connect primarily to tower #1, which is a monopole (flagpole) style tower. Tower #2 is the secondary tower that I will bounce to under certain conditions. When I drove to this location however, I could not find a tower in the immediate area? Tower #1 is the only tower in the area that has received multiple updates (speed, data capacity, etc.). I am in no way literate in the ways of tech/tower talk and I am well aware that open signal and signal finder apps are in no way perfect. But I am confused as to why I have not connected to the main Sprint tower that has been updated/upgraded. I am now using the S3, but have recieved the same data via my OC epic and my wifes POS Intercept. Any and all help in understanding this issue would be greatly appreciated in advanced... just remeber to dumb it down for the comon folk such as myself.

 

Again, thanks

Edited December 10, 2012 by danny1st

[danny1st]

tower 3 is the only tower that has received updates, tower 1 is not mentioned on the NV site at all... Sorry for theconfusion

 

[digiblur]

Towers aren't always towers. You will see many people here refer to them as sites. Some are panels inside other objects hiding the panels. Some are on top of buildings that you might not be able to see. Flagpoles, light poles, trees, etc.

[boomerbubba]

If you are trying to track you LTE connections to specific antenna sites, there is no app that will do that for you directly. You have to survey the towers/sites yourself using your LTE Engineering screen.

 

If you are trying to track CDMA connections, the apps you are using won't help either. Use CDMA Field Test. Or if you don't mind the privacy risk, try Netmonitor. You still might have to do some field work to figure out the exact sites.

 

In any case, start with a comprehensive map of the Sprint towers, which you can get as an S4GRU sponsor. Sprint's own maps are incomplete.

[danny1st]

so I could in fact be connecting to the Sprint tower #3 in question. that's depressing for the fact that after 6 months of so called speed and data updates my speeds are still ridiculous at best (less than 100 k down) I was hoping the tower had connection issues or something... anything but what is going on. the bad part is as soon as I drive in any direction approximately 2 miles my speeds are where they should be. (1 to 1.5 meg down). I know I will be getting lte, it's just a matter of time.

[newboyx]

 

 

 

 

my wifes POS Intercept.

 

Again, thanks

For continued happiness in your marriage you need to get her a new phone ASAP.

Sent from a phone using an application. That's pretty cool.

 

 

[danny1st]

now I'm really going to get flamed... she now has an iphone. and believe me I tried to talk her out of it.

 

 

For continued happiness in your marriage you need to get her a new phone ASAP.

Sent from a phone using an application. That's pretty cool.

Edited December 10, 2012 by danny1st

[danny1st]

If you are trying to track you LTE connections to specific antenna sites, there is no app that will do that for you directly. You have to survey the towers/sites yourself using your LTE Engineering screen.

 

If you are trying to track CDMA connections, the apps you are using won't help either. Use CDMA Field Test. Or if you don't mind the privacy risk, try Netmonitor. You still might have to do some field work to figure out the exact sites.

 

In any case, start with a comprehensive map of the Sprint towers, which you can get as an S4GRU sponsor. Sprint's own maps are incomplete.

 

downloaded cdma field test, now the primary tower is a totally different location. wrong again however, only single story residence, no towers, poles, tree with panels (really by the way?). just want be sure I am connecting to the Sprint tower that is receiving the updates and if not, why? I know Sprints data is very poor in some locations. but when I have a tower within 500 feet with no obstructions (my road leads directly to it as if it was the fricken yellow brick road) and that tower, according to Sprint has received multiple speed and data capacity upgrades in the past year... why I'm I still pulling less than 100 k down during off peek hours.

 

Sorry for the b#&$h fest, just trying understand?

[boomerbubba]

downloaded cdma field test, now the primary tower is a totally different location. wrong again however, only single story residence, no towers, poles, tree with panels (really by the way?). just want be sure I am connecting to the Sprint tower that is receiving the updates and if not, why? I know Sprints data is very poor in some locations. but when I have a tower within 500 feet with no obstructions (my road leads directly to it as if it was the fricken yellow brick road) and that tower, according to Sprint has received multiple speed and data capacity upgrades in the past year... why I'm I still pulling less than 100 k down during off peek hours.

 

Sorry for the b#&$h fest, just trying understand?

 

CDMA Field Test is mapping the coordinates broadcast by the base station site (tower). But those coordinates may not be the tower's actual location. The coordinates broadcast for the sites' sectors may be offset from there. That is why I said above, "You still might have to do some field work to figure out the exact sites." And you would probably need the S4GRU maps of all the Sprint towers, available to Sponsors here, to do that.

 

See this comment in the FAQ thread for further explanation.

[danny1st]

 

 

CDMA Field Test is mapping the coordinates broadcast by the base station site (tower). But those coordinates may not be the tower's actual location. The coordinates broadcast for the sites' sectors may be offset from there. That is why I said above, "You still might have to do some field work to figure out the exact sites." And you would probably need the S4GRU maps of all the Sprint towers, available to Sponsors here, to do that.

 

See this comment in the FAQ thread for further explanation.

 

I understand and thanks for the response. just sad that we as consumers have to seek information on secondary third party sites and that their information is misleading or just outright false. if they are upgrading towers, you would think it would be in there own interest to give out valid information.

 

on that note, signal finder and open signal are indicating that the tower I am currently connected to is at site 1 which is actually a tower (mono pole) and cdma field test is within a few hundred feet from this tower that is not identified as a Sprint tower according to their own information (stay with me here cause I now your ripping your hair out... I do get what your saying). but the tower that is getting the updates that is a few hundred feet closer to my location, I am not connecting to according to all these signal apps. the apps are showing actual tower locations for this tower...

 

I guess it's not that important really, just hearing about all these upgrades, and seeing Sprint proudly release all the improvements on their towers and yet absolutely zero improvements on actual speed. just frustrating.

[boomerbubba]

I understand and thanks for the response. just sad that we as consumers have to seek information on secondary third party sites and that their information is misleading or just outright false. if they are upgrading towers, you would think it would be in there own interest to give out valid information.

 

on that note, signal finder and open signal are indicating that the tower I am currently connected to is at site 1 which is actually a tower (mono pole) and cdma field test is within a few hundred feet from this tower that is not identified as a Sprint tower according to their own information (stay with me here cause I now your ripping your hair out... I do get what your saying). but the tower that is getting the updates that is a few hundred feet closer to my location, I am not connecting to according to all these signal apps. the apps are showing actual tower locations for this tower...

 

I guess it's not that important really, just hearing about all these upgrades, and seeing Sprint proudly release all the improvements on their towers and yet absolutely zero improvements on actual speed. just frustrating.

 

You really cannot generalize about all purported "tower mapping" apps because they work differently The apps you are using (Open Signal and Signal Finder) do not show actual tower locations at all, only imputed locations that they have computed using crowdsourced signal strength collections. These computations are extremely and notoriously unreliable. I consider these apps, when used for this purpose, to be junk.

 

At least the other class of apps (CDMA Field Test, Netmonitor, etc.) plots the locations that are broadcast by the CDMA base stations. In some cases, these locations are the actual sites so it is straightforward to see them. But in others, the locations do not represent the sites, but rather the offset locations, as the FAQ comment explains.

 

Yes, it would be nice if Sprint and other carriers would just publish their full set of antenna sites, but they don't. For Sprint, the single best resource is the set of Sponsor maps here at S4GRU, which are sourced from internal Sprint project documents. With these Sponsor maps, CDMA Field Test and a little work, it is possible to isolate the CDMA site you are connected to. I have always been able to do it, but no app will do all the work for me. (BTW, the other major CDMA carrier, Verizon, goes even further to suppress tower locations. Even though Verizon sites apparently broadcast coordinates, the carrier seems to cripple the Android API on its handsets to block apps such as CDMA Field Test from mapping the sites at all.)

 

None of this applies to LTE, which does not even include broadcast coordinates in its technical standard. So even with the S4GRU maps, the only way to correlate their mapped LTE sites to signal data available on the handsets is by field survey to build our own lookup table. No doubt Sprint has such tables internally, and it would be nice if they were published. But they are not.

[danny1st]

 

 

You really cannot generalize about all purported "tower mapping" apps because they work differently The apps you are illsing (Open Signal and Signal Finder) do not show actual tower locations at all, only imputed locations that they have computed using crowdsourced signal strength collections. These computations are extremely and notoriously unreliable. I consider these apps, when used for this purpose, to be junk.

 

At least the other class of apps (CDMA Field Test, Netmonitor, etc.) plots the locations that are broadcast by the CDMA base stations. In some cases, these locations are the actual sites so it is straightforward to see them. But in others, the locations do not represent the sites, but rather the offset locations, as the FAQ comment explains.

 

Yes, it would be nice if Sprint and other carriers would just publish their full set of antenna sites, but they don't. For Sprint, the single best resource is the set of Sponsor maps here at S4GRU, which are sourced from internal Sprint project documents. With these Sponsor maps, CDMA Field Test and a little work, it is possible to isolate the CDMA site you are connected to. I have always been able to do it, but no app will do all the work for me. (BTW, the other major CDMA carrier, Verizon, goes even further to suppress tower locations. Even though Verizon sites apparently broadcast coordinates, the carrier seems to cripple the Android API on its handsets to block apps such as CDMA Field Test from mapping the sites at all.)

 

None of this applies to LTE, which does not even include broadcast coordinates in its technical standard. So even with the S4GRU maps, the only way to correlate their mapped LTE sites to signal data available on the handsets is by field survey to build our own lookup table. No doubt Sprint has such tables internally, and it would be nice if they were published. But they are not.

 

wow, you sir are very knowledgeable. again, thanks for your response and your time. just upgraded and am now locked in for another 2 and am now having a little buyers remorse if you will. I gambled on the wimax promise and lost, now I find myself in the same boat with the promise of a bright lte future. I knew what I was getting into, just that whole "here we go again sinking feeling as the first site dates for west michigan have come and gone with no information (for the common folk anyway) on any real progress.

 

you guys on this site really know your s$!t, and it is appreciated. again, thanks

[stormchaser68]

Wish someone would come up with an app like I had for my Blackberry phone before going over to the Note 2 called Signal Loc. That signal loc app for the blackberry phone was a cool app that helped me locate the broadcasting Sprint tower and even roaming tower locations and then saved it to my SD card in a file and then exported it out to google maps to see a wider range of where I traveled and where all the towers it found. If only someone could create an app for the Android OS system for people like me that love going out and finding cell towers like that I would jump right on it and download that app for my phone here.

[boomerbubba]

Wish someone would come up with an app like I had for my Blackberry phone before going over to the Note 2 called Signal Loc. That signal loc app for the blackberry phone was a cool app that helped me locate the broadcasting Sprint tower and even roaming tower locations and then saved it to my SD card in a file and then exported it out to google maps to see a wider range of where I traveled and where all the towers it found. If only someone could create an app for the Android OS system for people like me that love going out and finding cell towers like that I would jump right on it and download that app for my phone here.

 

CDMA FIeld Test and Netmonitor will export logs as CSV files and/or as KML files for mapping. But the content of the coordinates mapped has all the shortcomings of the interactive displays I described above, because those shortcomings originate with the Sprint base stations themselves. So I am sure your Blackberry app had the same limitations.

[stormchaser68]

CDMA FIeld Test and Netmonitor will export logs as CSV files and/or as KML files for mapping. But the content of the coordinates mapped has all the shortcomings of the interactive displays I described above, because those shortcomings originate with the Sprint base stations themselves. So I am sure your Blackberry app had the same limitations.

 

Thanks and yeah it had some of those limitations too but sure was a nice app to have on there where it would tell you how close and or how far you were from the cell sites. The only thing off the top of my head I can remember that it had a flaw to it was the Signal Loc app would only go down to -80db and that would be it.

 

What do you think would be as close as possible to what I had on my blackberry signal loc app you would say to get?

[boomerbubba]

What do you think would be as close as possible to what I had on my blackberry signal loc app you would say to get?

 

Either CDMA Field Test or Netmonitor will export KML files for the squawked CDMA coordinates, warts and all. I prefer CDMA Field Test. (I used to use Netmonitor, but I uninstalled it because I decided I didn't like its privacy risk. Others may weigh that risk differently than I do.) Netmonitor did show multiple sites on its interactive screen. Of course, the log files for both include multiple sites. Both apps export KML files plotting the coordinates broadcast by CDMA sector base stations the handset connects to, which may or may not be the actual antenna sites. The output is still useful if you understand these limitations, and have access to the S4GRU master maps of the actual Sprint sites for reference to divine the actual site within a plotted triangle.

[stormchaser68]

Either CDMA Field Test or Netmonitor will export KML files for the squawked CDMA coordinates, warts and all. I prefer CDMA Field Test. (I used to use Netmonitor, but I uninstalled it because I decided I didn't like its privacy risk. Others may weigh that risk differently than I do.) Netmonitor did show multiple sites on its interactive screen. Of course, the log files for both include multiple sites. Both apps export KML files plotting the coordinates broadcast by CDMA sector base stations the handset connects to, which may or may not be the actual antenna sites. The output is still useful if you understand these limitations, and have access to the S4GRU master maps of the actual Sprint sites for reference to divine the actual site within a plotted triangle.

 

Ok. Thanks and yes I have access to those maps in the Sponsor area to compare what I find and what is on the maps here to see.

[CriticalityEvent]

Towers aren't always towers. You will see many people here refer to them as sites. Some are panels inside other objects hiding the panels. Some are on top of buildings that you might not be able to see. Flagpoles, light poles, trees, etc.

 

downloaded cdma field test, now the primary tower is a totally different location. wrong again however, only single story residence, no towers, poles, tree with panels (really by the way?).

 

My head actually cocked to the side when I read that as well! Aside from the issues with anchoring panels to something that is alive and potentially growing, I couldn’t figure out how something like downtilt would work on something that has the rigidity of a real tree. Can you imagine what your service would be like in a storm? “I have signal! No, wait neverm… THERE! Oh, gone again.” It’d be like a giant metronome.

 

http://waynesword.pa...du/faketree.htm

 

These fakes are pretty spot-on from a distance! This is not good news for my driving skills since S4GRU.com has taught me to keep an eye out only for conspicuous panels. Now I'm going to start questioning everything.

[boomerbubba]

downloaded cdma field test, now the primary tower is a totally different location. wrong again however, only single story residence, no towers, poles, tree with panels (really by the way?).

My head actually cocked to the side when I read that as well! Aside from the issues with anchoring panels to something that is alive and potentially growing, I couldn’t figure out how something like downtilt would work on something that has the rigidity of a real tree. Can you imagine what your service would be like in a storm? “I have signal! No, wait neverm… THERE! Oh, gone again.” It’d be like a giant metronome.

 

http://waynesword.pa...du/faketree.htm

 

These fakes are pretty spot-on from a distance! This is not good news for my driving skills since S4GRU.com has taught me to keep an eye out only for conspicuous panels. Now I'm going to start questioning everything.

 

A red herring.

 

It is obvious that danny1st was not looking at the actual tower site, but was being fooled by the offset coordinates being squawked by the CDMA sector base stations. When the coordinates are offset from the actual antenna site, they might be far way from there. Even miles away in some cases.

 

Yes, there are "stealth" towers disguised as trees, etc. But that was not the case here. This was a case of the user not understanding that the mapped coordinates displayed in the app might not be real.

 

BTW, since you have Sponsor privileges, you might also be interested in this thread: CDMA towers that squawk the wrong coordinates

[CriticalityEvent]

A red herring.

 

It is obvious that danny1st was not looking at the actual tower site, but was being fooled by the offset coordinates being squawked by the CDMA sector base stations. When the coordinates are offset from the actual antenna site, they might be far way from there. Even miles away in some cases.

 

Yes, there are "stealth" towers disguised as trees, etc. But that was not the case here. This was a case of the user not understanding that the mapped coordinates displayed in the app might not be real.

 

BTW, since you have Sponsor privileges, you might also be interested in this thread: CDMA towers that squawk the wrong coordinates

 

Oh yeah, I know about that (I’ve posted in there a few times), I had just never heard of panels on “trees.” I did slightly derail the thread with that post, my apologies.

[Dkoellerwx]

Oh yeah, I know about that (I’ve posted in there a few times), I had just never heard of panels on “trees.” I did slightly derail the thread with that post, my apologies.

 

Trees, cacti, palm trees, flagpoles, rocks... anything to hide the 'ugly' cell tower.