S4GRU

movie night

This phone is beginning to interest me. If Sense 4 isn't the memory whore it's claimed to be and if it feels right in the hand...Hmmm?

Memory whore?

I have an ex-girlfriend who still screws with my memory! So I can relate about the anguish you must feel, just by channeling that.

Robert

As long as a deal is fair for both Sprint and Dish I would be happy with it. Sprint needs money and if there is any way that can help offset costs from Network Vision. Also any spectrum that is not in the hands of Verizon and AT&T is a victory in itself.

 

I am sure AT&T has rubbed Ergen the wrong way already by crying to the FCC about the way they plan to deploy LTE. That is not to say that Ergen can't be bought though but I am sure it is not his first choice.

Be that as it may, Ergen is so shrewd that he will always make Sprint and Tmo think that a deal with AT&T is imminent to get the best deal that Dish can get from them. He is in the middle of a great bargaining position. And he knows it.

If Sprint ever gets a deal with Dish, it will not be lucrative. But I like your point that a Sprint/Dish deal, even if not financially lucrative, is a huge win just if ATT or Verizon cannot get it. It would be the reverse of the Alltel deal. Only more valuable as Dish spectrum is nationwide.

Robert

Ahh, I didn't know that Sprint was not using the Nextel towers at all. I thought that the iDEN sites that were being decommissioned were going to be converted to LTE and added into network vision. So what happens to people that are on nextel now but live in an area with little to no sprint service?

All iDEN customers will be forced migrated. They can move to Sprint CDMA or they can go to another carrier. That's about it for options.

Robert

That's great news. I'm really looking forward to 800 mhz LTE. I really hope the Galaxy S III supports it though, which is what I'm planning on getting for my next phone. I'd hope for 2500 mhz TD-LTE support for when clearwire lights that up, but I have my doubts.

I'm of the same mind set. I really hope that the GS-III supports 800 at a minimum, and ideally TD-LTE 2500 too. I will likely get one of the new LTE devices coming out now. But I'm definitely saving one of my upgrades for the GS-III.

Robert

Anytime you receive or send an SMS or MMS (text / picture) message, your phone will go to 1x. Sprint uses 1x to transmit SMS and MMS messages (which is why pictures take forever). The only phones that won't do this are SVDO-capable phones. The only SVDO-capable phones that exist today (or soon) are HTC Thunderbolt, HTC Rezound, & LG Viper (to be released). It's just like talking on the phone-- you cannot maintain a 3G (EVDO) data session while on a call-- your data will drop to 1x as your phone only has a single CDMA baseband processor.

I can never remember getting hung up on 1x after getting a SMS, but maybe I have and just not realize it. I get hung up on 1x so often going in and out of coverage here in rural New Mexico, that I don't think I have noticed.

Robert

You seemed to have completely ignored the majority of my post and instead focus on the last sentence. I was simply asking a question and describing what the problem was. Forgive me if I'm slightly irritated when I'm paying for 1X instead of 3G. If this site is not affiliated with Sprint, then why are you making such a big deal out of it?

 

Thank you S4GRU for giving me some insight on this. Do you know if this will happen any less often when network vision comes into effect?

Scott is a moderator and a writer here. I wouldn't recommend getting into a further discussion on the subject. I think we should move on. Please accept my explanation on the issue.

However, it should improve post Network Vision. With RRU's up high on the the towers, it should have a significant impact on filling in the little 3G RF holes that exist now. This will give you a more seamless coverage area of 3G. Also, newer devices will handoff better too than devices from last year or even older. So the problem that you are experiencing will definitely get better for you after Network Vision is complete in your area.

What will be even better is when you are using a LTE device in a LTE coverage area once 800 LTE is deployed. With LTE on 800, the coverage area will be very seamless. And streaming audio/video in a coverage area will be a very good experience.

The Sprint network is going under a metamorphosis currently. It will not be even remotely like its former self. And for most of us, I know we cannot wait. And the reports we are getting from the live Network Vision sites are very promising.

Robert

bumpy flight

I think you have that backwards. CDMA phones can (and do) connect to multiple towers/sectors all the time-- everybody talks on the same channel allowing soft handoff which is why CDMA calls practically never drop. GSM is a TDMA technology-- it CANNOT connect to more than one tower at a time as they're all on different channels from their neighbors and use different timeslots-- the hard handoff is why GSM is a very, very poor voice technology in comparison. Now GPRS/HSPA (3G "GSM") is W-CDMA, so it can connect to multiple towers.

I am using poor terminology. GSM stays in contact, but it does not allow for soft handoff. My agency used to use AT&T and I would use an app called Antennas (http://www.androidce...puts-bars-shame) on it. It would show all the GSM towers that my device was seeing. The device also used this same information and would triangulate your location when you used the network to determine location.

Since then, our agency has moved to Verizon. So now I have a CDMA personal and work phone. The CDMA devices I have used only show one location on Antennas app and when you use the network to determine location, they seem to be much less accurate. This is not because of the handoff technology (which obviously CDMA is far superior) but because of the number of sites the device is listening to and can get coordinates for.

I didn't mean to imply that the GSM devices are actually "connected" to these additional towers.

Robert

Many devices have a hard time going back to 3G EVDO if they get handed over to 1x, especially while in an active data session. And streaming would be the ultimate example of an active data session. It used to happen to me all the time on my EVO. It still happens on my E4GT too, but it seems to be a little better at pushing me back up to EVDO.

So it is easy to make the assumption when this happens that for some reason you are not in a 3G EVDO coverage area and/or perhaps there is something wrong with the network. When in reality, you probably only lost 3G EVDO coverage for a few seconds or a minute, but your device will not reconnect you.

The best way to correct this when you know you are in a 3G area, but stuck in 1x, is to cycle through Airplane mode. But this can be really cumbersome and annoying, especially when streaming. But rest assured, I have the same issue on my work Verizon phone too. In fact, it's worse because it drops to 1x more often in my area.

As for Scott's comments, please understand around here the 4G fee is a taboo subject. It causes our dander to get ruffled because it usually gets mentioned right before flaming begins. So we may be a little hyper sensitive. Your question is legit, so I apologize for us shooting you first, and then responding to your question.

Best Regards,

Robert

S4GRU Administrator

Yeah I wasn't really meaning replace it with fiber but microwave to the base which I guess is not possible sometimes...nice to know loop is possible and being done when so though. I guess in these areas after time they will end up having to upgrade microwave radomes if tech advances to increase bandwidth handle, OR end up coughing up for fiber...hopefully by that time there become more direct locations to connect some of the towers microwave to so not in loop. Again I was thinking worst case here, given sprint track record... You have an idea how many are being linked by chance, like longest link of towers or avg #? Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk

Typically, you wouldn't want to do more than 3 or 4 in a terminal end application with links being greater than 5-6 miles in between each. Although links of 10mi can be supported. If you were doing a loop, you could do 7 or 8. There are even newer and better improvements in MW than can support even greater distances. However, they are pretty new to market. And I'm not sure if Sprint backhaul providers are already up to speed and deploying these.

Sprint is using fiber backhaul where it can. Where it is easily accessible and affordable. And supposedly, the Southern Connecticut market has no microwave at all.

Robert

Yeah, BUT whats the backup for the towers not near the front of the line? i mean its not real smart imho to leave the possibility of having 1 little device able to take out others in other areas...

 

interested in the article though, to see how they effectively evenly distribute the backhaul to all the towers in that series. This will work for now but in future they will have to get each tower its own line or at least only a few linked in a series line...Microwave has its limits on bandwidth....

dunno why but I just envision Sprint running a giant 20-50 tower series link doing this just testing the absolute max they can push it...If you stretch 1 Microwave long enough though you could have the bandwidth split up to be back down to the bundled T1 level...

 

ill try and wait till the article before I think negatively on it much more...lol

Is it smart to delay LTE by a couple of years and spend billions more trying to do an all fiber backhaul? Also, a single line of fiber that's not redundant is not bullet proof. Fiber lines get cut all the time. And it's easier and faster to repair microwave. It's sixes IMO. And when you consider the cost and schedule to go with MW, it's a no brainer. Modern MW is so fast and so scalable.

Also, you can build MW in a redundant loop to improve reliability, It doesn't have to have a terminal end.

Robert

ewww that sounds not so smart....I would think that they wouldn't do it more than once like this...setting them up in a series is way too risky imho. If one in the middle or near the beginning goes down for whatever reason, then the rest of the towers down the line are SOL...Also how do they regulate the bandwidth to each tower if in a series like that? Would make it seem that first tower in the line gets the priority and all...

It's not a big deal at all. But you can "repeat" only so many times before you affect performance. It is done all the time. I am writing an article on it soon.

Robert

I'm glad I purchased when I did!

Robert

Robert, at first glance, the map appears to include accurate Sprint market boundaries. Based on your GIS work with digiblur, is that correct?

 

AJ

Yeah, I saw that. I was half considering a revision to the Sprint Markets maps based on that.

Robert

GPS with my Evo is usually rock-solid. However, within buildings (like work) or steel structures the GPS won't lock and I rely on network positioning. My wife's Epic4G is terrible at locking GPS location indoors, acceptable outdoors. My Evo will often lock indoors when she can't and almost never fails outdoors.

 

 

 

I don't know where those are at.

 

 

 

I noticed when visiting Chicago and my GPS off, my network position was +-400-ft and tracked my speed and direction pretty well.

Your brother has an AT&T device that works great indoors? I haven't had any device that is good with GPS inside most structures. Some will, some won't. Some maybe if you are near a window. If you just mean network based location, that makes sense. GSM devices stay in contact with many sites at once, allowing for much better triangulation. I also think that iPhone are better with GPS, in general, based on my experiences.

The signals from GPS satellites are pretty darn weak and don't penetrate very well at all. It's amazing that they even work in a car.

Robert

Network Vision is not being tested anywhere except for G Block. There is signficiant drive testing that occurs before they finally convert a site off legacy and onto NV. We have also had many members visit sites in Chicago, Boston, Central Jersey and DFW and none have complained of these issues. This doesn't make sense from how NV is being deployed. You would need to have a modified PRL to be experiencing the issues described.

Also, someone should probably tell that guy over in the HoFo thread who was complaining about not seeing a map of completed sites that we have one posted here for sponsor members.

Robert

That tower must be providing backhaul for the other towers.

It's daisy chaining. It's receiving backhaul via MW and passing it on to another site too.

Robert

Completely Agree, but maybe it is slated for after NV completion. I wonder if the lack of iDEN sites being included is because the investors are breathing down Hesse's back. I would think they gotta use some of the towers in the future for better capacity and coverage.

 

 

I know they are decommissioning sites, but do they still own the rights to put up towers after they are decommissioned or is it like they are giving up that tower completely. If it is the latter, then I am upset, because they have a great chance to at least close the gap on ATT for coverage.

 

also I assumed the map would have more coverage with the LTE 800 added. I was not expected a lot, but it seems exactly like sprint's cdma coverage. I thought the 800 would have a larger effect.

800 LTE is only going on existing Sprint 1900 CDMA sites. So it will not create any new coverages, just a 45% distance increase for the same sites. So, on a national level, it would just appear as the existing coverage would just swell a little. However, on a local map level, especially one showing signal intensity, the difference is huge.

you'll note the LTE map matches up pretty precisely with the market maps here on S4GRU already).

That's because the data points in our Sprint market maps come from Sprint databases.

The data comes from October 1, 2011. Changes since then (which isn't much) are not reflected.

Robert

I once did a quick estimation that Sprint would only have to keep approx. 1,000 Nextel sites to maximize its coverage area into areas where they have no CDMA coverage currently, but do have iDEN. So, no need to keep all 25k Nextel sites.

Robert

think big

I just ordered one too. Great deal. Couldn't pass up. I regret missing the TouchPad deal.

Robert - Posted from my E4GT with ICS using Forum Runner

That famous McDonald's case where the chick had no idea that coffee is hot was right here in New Mexico.

Robert - Posted from my E4GT with ICS using Forum Runner