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Normal signal loss.


jawknee530
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At my work outside I have a -63 dBm signal on PCS and when I go inside the signal drops to -79 or -82dBm. Is this a normal drop for 1x on PCS? Once smr800 is available what kind of drop will be likely?

 

Those questions cannot be answered with generalizations. No two situations are exactly alike. Depending upon the type of building construction, someone could have a strong signal outside and no usable signal inside.

 

Regardless, your CDMA1X 1900 signal is exceedingly strong outside and still quite strong inside. In that location, CDMA1X 800 will provide you little benefit because CDMA1X 1900 already serves you very well.

 

AJ

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Those questions cannot be answered with generalizations. No two situations are exactly alike. Depending upon the type of building construction, someone could have a strong signal outside and no usable signal inside.

 

Regardless, your CDMA1X 1900 signal is exceedingly strong outside and still quite strong inside. In that location, CDMA1X 800 will provide you little benefit because CDMA1X 1900 already serves you very well.

 

AJ

 

I understand that it's definitely strong both ways where I'm at. I work at a Sprint reseller and the tower is a block over. I was just curious as to how smr would compare to pcs. At my house my 1x PCS signal is usually hovering around -101 dBm and jumps a dozen times per hour between four base stations trying to improve but never does. So smr should help me greatly there.

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I understand that it's definitely strong both ways where I'm at. I work at a Sprint reseller and the tower is a block over. I was just curious as to how smr would compare to pcs. At my house my 1x PCS signal is usually hovering around -101 dBm and jumps a dozen times per hour between four base stations trying to improve but never does. So smr should help me greatly there.

 

Generally the drop in dBm is the same, regardless of frequency when broadcast from the same site with similar transmit power and downtilt. So if you drop around 15dBm typically on PCS, you will likely drop 15dBm when you go indoors on SMR too. But the SMR would likely be a stronger signal than the PCS before you go indoors.

 

As AJ points out, to try to guess exactly what is going to happen in your instance is impossible. Too many variables. And you may get 800 service from a more distant site before the nearest one. This may really throw you off because your SMR signal strength may be worse.

 

Robert via LG Optimus G using Tapatalk

 

 

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At my house my 1x PCS signal is usually hovering around -101 dBm and jumps a dozen times per hour between four base stations trying to improve but never does. So smr should help me greatly there.

 

That depends on what you consider to be the problem. Your -101 dBm RSSI on CDMA1X 1900 right now may be perfectly usable most of the time, but it certainly does not leave much margin for fades or cell shrinkage. CDMA1X 800 should give you a higher RSSI, but your pilot pollution likely will not change. Your handsets hops among four different PNs because they are of similar but varying Ec/Io. As long as CDMA1X 800 is deployed on all four PNs, you will still experience similar but varying Ec/Io among those four PNs. Thus, your handset will continue to jump around as signal/network conditions fluctuate.

 

AJ

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That depends on what you consider to be the problem. Your -101 dBm RSSI on CDMA1X 1900 right now may be perfectly usable most of the time, but it certainly does not leave much margin for fades or cell shrinkage. CDMA1X 800 should give you a higher RSSI, but your pilot pollution likely will not change. Your handsets hops among four different PNs because they are of similar but varying Ec/Io. As long as CDMA1X 800 is deployed on all four PNs, you will still experience similar but varying Ec/Io among those four PNs. Thus, your handset will continue to jump around as signal/network conditions fluctuate.

 

AJ

 

Interesting. I'm new so excuse my ignorance but what exactly is the Ec/lo? If you can link me to some reading that you'd recommend I'd appreciate it. I definitely have dropping calls at home and often have calls going straight to voicemail which I know is not only caused by low signal but can also be caused by network congestion correct? Are the dropped calls caused by my phone trying to jump from one tower to another during the call or just because it loses a connection entirely?

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Generally the drop in dBm is the same, regardless of frequency when broadcast from the same site with similar transmit power and downtilt. So if you drop around 15dBm typically on PCS, you will likely drop 15dBm when you go indoors on SMR too. But the SMR would likely be a stronger signal than the PCS before you go indoors.

 

As AJ points out, to try to guess exactly what is going to happen in your instance is impossible. Too many variables. And you may get 800 service from a more distant site before the nearest one. This may really throw you off because your SMR signal strength may be worse.

 

Robert via LG Optimus G using Tapatalk

 

Thanks for the input. The tower I use at work is dead smack in the center of town with plenty of towers surrounding it. If I were sprint the first towers I'd upgrade with SMR 1x would be around the periphery of town so maybe my phone will be trying to decide whether to use the closer PCS tower or a farther off SMR tower. That's what you were saying right? Can't think of a possible complaint for a situation like that. Well, I'm an American upper middle class white 6' 4" male with a full head of hair, a job, a car (1970 VW Bus), and a girlfriend so really any complaint I have is pretty insignificant anyway.

Edited by jawknee530
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Interesting. I'm new so excuse my ignorance but what exactly is the Ec/lo?

 

Think of Ec/Io simply as a measure of signal quality. It is the ratio of the pilot channel to the total power (signal, noise, interference) in the carrier channel. Ec/Io is always negative -- the more negative it gets, the worse the signal quality. CDMA1X devices track Ec/Io down to -31.5 dB, but below roughly -20 dB Ec/Io is unusable.

 

AJ

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Think of Ec/Io simply as a measure of signal quality. It is the ratio of the pilot channel to the total power (signal, noise, interference) in the carrier channel. Ec/Io is always negative -- the more negative it gets, the worse the signal quality. CDMA1X devices track Ec/Io down to -31.5 dB, but below roughly -20 dB Ec/Io is unusable.

 

AJ

 

Ok, so the RSSI is like the power of the signal at my phone and the Ec/lo is the quality of that signal if I'm understanding correctly. And two towers could have an RSSI of -101 dBm but one could have a slightly higher EC/lo so my phone chooses that one. But not being satisfied my phone is constantly on the prowl for a signal with a better connection so it's jumping around because "the grass is always greener". Is there a simple way to compare two signals with different RSSIs and EC/los?

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Ok, so the RSSI is like the power of the signal at my phone and the Ec/lo is the quality of that signal if I'm understanding correctly. And two towers could have an RSSI of -101 dBm but one could have a slightly higher EC/lo so my phone chooses that one. But not being satisfied my phone is constantly on the prowl for a signal with a better connection so it's jumping around because "the grass is always greener". Is there a simple way to compare two signals with different RSSIs and EC/los?

 

Your handset is not really concerned with RSSI. It is merely a means to calculate Ec/Io. So, your idle handset uses Ec/Io to determine on which PN it will camp. And at a typical slot cycle index setting, your idle handset reevaluates Ec/Io among available PNs every 5.12 seconds.

 

AJ

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Your handset is not really concerned with RSSI. It is merely a means to calculate Ec/Io. So, your idle handset uses Ec/Io to determine on which PN it will camp. And at a typical slot cycle index setting, your idle handset reevaluates Ec/Io among available PNs every 5.12 seconds.

 

AJ

 

PN? Is that short hand for a tower or for what? Like I said if there's any recommended reading for a newbie I could gladly chew it up. I read the FAQ but it didn't list PN under any of the acronyms.

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PN? Is that short hand for a tower or for what? Like I said if there's any recommended reading for a newbie I could gladly chew it up. I read the FAQ but it didn't list PN under any of the acronyms.

 

PN is short for PN offset, or more accurately, Pseudo Noise offset. Think of it as representing a site sector, as each local sector must use a different PN.

 

AJ

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On an unrelated note I used CDMA Field Test App to map my base station and it gave me this location on google maps for BSID 635 in SID 4183/12 http://tinyurl.com/cbxacwq. I went there and all i saw was what looked like a power cabinet which I've attached a picture of. There weren't any towers in sight and this is where the google maps pin sent me.GTMLMO5.jpg

Edited by jawknee530
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PN is short for PN offset, or more accurately, Pseudo Noise offset. Think of it as representing a site sector, as each local sector must use a different PN.

 

AJ

 

Oh man, I get one thing explained and it brings up two more questions. It's like I'm fighting a Hydra. So each Site is a tower or whatever the antennas are on right? And each Site has three sectors? That's why the antennas are in a triangle on the tops of the towers because each face of the triangle is a sector? So it's trying to find the best PN or in other words the best sector to use and it compares the Ec/lo of each sector that it has in range regardless of which tower the sector comes from?

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On an unrelated note I used CDMA Field Test App to map my base station and it gave me this location on google maps for BSID 635 in SID 4183/12 http://tinyurl.com/cbxacwq. I went there and all i saw was what looked like a power cabinet which I've attached a picture of. There weren't any towers in sight and this is where the google maps pin sent me.

 

CDMA Field Test app gets the coordinate from the 1x site it is connected to. In some markets it is the exact location of the site, and in other markets the site broadcast an offset location near the center of the sector. It looks like for you, it is broadcasting an offset sector location. So likely in you market, they all will be off.

 

In the S4GRU Sponsor maps, we show all the Sprint sites nationwide, including in Redding. Speaking of Redding, you ever been to Jack's Steakhouse downtown? I haven't been there in 15 years, but it used to be a place I enjoyed going to when in the area.

 

Robert

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CDMA Field Test app gets the coordinate from the 1x site it is connected to. In some markets it is the exact location of the site, and in other markets the site broadcast an offset location near the center of the sector. It looks like for you, it is broadcasting an offset sector location. So likely in you market, they all will be off.

 

In the S4GRU Sponsor maps, we show all the Sprint sites nationwide, including in Redding. Speaking of Redding, you ever been to Jack's Steakhouse downtown? I haven't been there in 15 years, but it used to be a place I enjoyed going to when in the area.

 

Robert

 

I definitely plan to donate Friday once I have the cash. And yes I have been to Jacks. Pretty good food. Unfortunately that street has been taken over by five or six bars and has become pretty crappy. There's a "rodeo" bar that attracts all the wannabe cowboys in the area and across the street is a punk/metal/meth head bar that likes to blare music and host rediculous dj parties. There's also several bars in between and the cops are called to that street multiple times per weekend. I actually walked out of Jacks once and was lucky enough to witness a mass arrest involving a dozen patrol cars and about 30 dudes in cuffs. Mass brawls in the middle of that street are kind of common unfortunately. Jonny's ( the cowboy bar) was actually shut down for a few months because of the level of violence going on in and around it.

 

On a slightly related note I used to work for Geek Squad in the area and actually set up all of the PCs, Networking and POS systems for that bar. Too bad its such a horrible place to go.

Edited by jawknee530
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I definitely plan to donate Friday once I have the cash. And yes I have been to Jacks. Pretty good food. Unfortunately that street has been taken over by five or six bars and has become pretty crappy. There's a "rodeo" bar that attracts all the wannabe cowboys in the area and across the street is a punk/metal/meth head bar that likes to blare music and host rediculous dj parties. There's also several bars in between and the cops are called to that street multiple times per weekend. I actually walked out of Jacks once and was lucky enough to witness a mass arrest involving a dozen patrol cars and about 30 dudes in cuffs. Mass brawls in the middle of that street are kind of common unfortunately. Jonny's ( the cowboy bar) was actually shut down for a few months because of the level of violence going on in and around it.

 

On a slightly related note I used to work for Geek Squad in the area and actually set up all of the PCs, Networking and POS systems for that bar. Too bad its such a horrible place to go.

 

Sounds like Redding has gone down hill in my absence. At least that part. Our best friends moved there in the Mid 90's and we visited them several times a year. But they moved back to Nevada around 2000, and haven't been back except driving through and maybe swinging by the In N Out drive thru.

 

Thanks for considering a donation to help support S4GRU.

 

Robert

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Sounds like Redding has gone down hill in my absence. At least that part. Our best friends moved there in the Mid 90's and we visited them several times a year. But they moved back to Nevada around 2000, and haven't been back except driving through and maybe swinging by the In N Out drive thru.

 

Thanks for considering a donation to help support S4GRU.

 

Robert

 

Redding is still pretty great I think. About 90k people with two mountains and two lakes within an hour and plenty of trees and hiking. Those bars just attract all the idiots in the area on the weekends. Most of the town is pretty damn safe and Cal Trans if finally upgrading all of the freeways and bridges in the area and are about 90% done with the work.

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