ingenium

Glad your still there. I am about to sign out, but do you have a couple of cross streets in Noe Valley so I can be sure I am looking at the correct small cell installations?

 

"on the plus side you can get a ton of details about each site" - yes that is how I found all that info on the one over by Alta Bates on Ashby.

 

"To my knowledge there aren't really any small cells planned in Berkeley (I know of 2 and they aren't in areas that need help, so they may not be built)." Unfortunately I am not surprised, but I was hoping.

Sent you a PM with more details, but check the exit of the Walgreens parking lot https://goo.gl/maps/ibz8C8MebH12 the antenna has been upgraded since the street view picture was taken. You're looking for these:

 

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Thanks for all of the information, it sounds promissing, and I will go take a look, both out of curiousity and also so I can identify them in the East Bay. Berkeley the hardest place on earth to get anything done is where I am crossing my fingers and hoping for the best. Was pleased to hear of the progress being made on BART.

Ahh yeah Berkeley is tough. If you look at their permits they're like 100 pages per site just to replace antennas (on the plus side you can get a ton of details about each site). The site spacing sucks, and there are LTE dead spots in a few areas (on Dwight between MLK and Sacramento for example). To my knowledge there aren't really any small cells planned in Berkeley (I know of 2 and they aren't in areas that need help, so they may not be built).

 

To give you an idea of how long Berkeley's permit process takes, one of the permits for NV 1.0/2.0 on a site still had reference to Lightsquared equipment being installed. I think they were able to amend/substitute it to 8T8R for the final approval.

 

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I am unclear on expanding the base/expanding coverage in so far as when is a macro site called for and when will small cells do the trick in an urban area.

 

Do they have multi band small cells, I only saw an example of a 1900 LTE pico cell?

 

Can small cells make up for the lack of Spectrum here in the San Francisco Bay Area. Do small cells have the capacity and is the required density needed realistic?

If they're dense enough, yes. The planned Sprint B41 small cells in the bay area should greatly alleviate the congestion on B25/26 and let you be on B41 most of the time. I estimate Oakland alone has over 150 planned. The locations are pretty strategic, and are mostly on light or utility poles. Now if they actually deploy on all these planned locations is another story...

 

If you want an example of Sprint small cells, check out Noe Valley in SF. There is an outdoor DAS installation throughout the neighborhood with B25 and B26. There's a canister antenna on a utility pole every couple blocks. Then a little further south in Glen Park and the Excelsior is/was the test area for Clearwire Wimax small cells. They're very dense there, and those should all be converted to B41 small cells eventually. They're small omni antennas, not the big cylinders like the Noe ODAS or Verizon small cells.

 

It's also possible for Sprint to deploy a second B25 carrier with their existing spectrum here. They just need to slim down the CDMA carriers. Supposedly this is planned soon, but last I checked the CDMA carriers were still spread throughout the whole block.

 

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So the B25/26 ones are the PCIs that changed? In Samsung markets at least B41 PCIs are always sequential like that, but B25/26 PCIs are random.

 

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That is pretty cool to hear. Though, it'd be nice if FiOS could get into my building... hah.

Well, Verizon installers are on strike now anyway. I just signed up and have an install date 5 weeks away... in the meantime they gave me a free unlimited LTE hotspot. Figure I'll just USB tether it to my router.

 

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Oh good, you beat me to it so I didn't have to explain this for a second time today. The G.729 thing kinda soured my Verizon calling experience just a little because it introduced scratchiness and a reduction in overall call volume that annoyed me. It also didn't help that the majority of people I talk to are on AT&T so I was used to AMR-WB 12.6 on top of that from being on AT&T myself. My friend just switched from T-Mobile to VZW and it sounds like ASS. We can't use anything wifi based either because his router has poor range and he absolutely refuses to upgrade it, so I either get choppiness or muffledness depending if he's on wifi calling or 1x.

 

 

Sprint sound quality was always pretty good for me except that I always had robogarble in just about every call. I got sick of that and was happy to be on AT&T UMTS for calls even despite using AMR 5.9 most of the time. And now I use VoLTE of course.

Its a shame testing doesn't include sound quality, but at the same time I think the majority doesn't care/doesn't know any better.

Yeah I get robocarble on pretty much every call, even with a strong signal. I think a lot of the time the sites are over capacity and they drop the quality to support more calls.

 

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From my observations there are quite a few, especially along/between 5 and 99.

I don't think that's the SF market is it? I haven't really looked at the more rural SF market areas

 

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Why is Sprint waiting to finally convert all the old Nextel sites to full NV?

I'm not really aware of any Nextel sites in the bay area that aren't colocated or within a block of an existing Sprint or Clear site (ie redundant). But I also didn't do an exhaustive search, just a quick visual inspection of the maps.

 

In other markets where they did have unique sites, I think some of them have been converted already. I believe the Cleveland market has had a few Nextel conversions.

 

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to make it simple, Sprint could and should cover the countries rural roads with 800 Mhz CDMA and B26 to provide full coverage. This might also reduce the roaming costs paid to other carriers.

 

What would be the max. capacity such setup would be able to handle in terms of bandwith and call / text volume?

I mean if you're putting up the panels you may as well also do 1x1900, EVDO, and B25. The only added cost are the 3 RRUs, which I would imagine aren't that expensive comparatively. The real issue is getting on those sites in the first place.

 

B26, we know the capacity of, ~36 Mbit down per sector. For calls, I'm not sure how many 1x can handle per carrier. I know 1xAdvanced can be tuned for either capacity (4x a normal 1x carrier) or coverage with the same capacity as regular 1x. I'm not sure if that's an either or config or if you can set it somewhere in the middle.

 

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When getting that high in frequencies. You are talking point to point beaming, with directional antennas wave guides and all. Moving mobiles wouldn't work.

 

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I suppose it could be viable backhaul solution for small cells, it would let you install them more densely. But then that's just regular microwave....

 

I feel like whenever LTE is actually upgraded to some newer standard, the cost to upgrade all the macros plus small cells are going to continue to increase dramatically. Not on a per cell basis, but just because there are so many more that will need upgrades.

 

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Others here can speak to the frequency propagation properties way much better than I can, so I'll defer! But I do recall there were people on FierceWireless making comments on 2.5 GHz not going through a wet paper bag and the like.

 

I also find it interesting that Ericsson's FCC Application has multiple redactions, but Nokia's FCC Application does not.

 

Any thoughts on this?

Well 2.5 GHz isn't much different from regular wifi (2.4 Ghz), so I expected similar penetration through walls and such, albeit better range from increased power and less interference.

 

But look at how 5Ghz drops off and can't penetrate walls well... and we're talking 28, 37, and 39 GHz! Sprint's 14.5-15.35 is better, but will still have penetration problems even at higher power. Even line of sight, directional microwave, with higher transmit power, can be disrupted by rain at times. I don't see it being viable outside of being in the same room as the cell.

 

And I'll agree I don't know the exact details of the propagation (maybe it is better than it appears), but it seems only useful for densely packed spaces to provide capacity.

 

Or perhaps if it's on every street pole it may be able to provide an alternative to wired internet service, but my intuition is that it'd be cheaper and more reliable to just run a line to the house like is done now.

 

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Santa Clara and Philly will be the two test/demonstration cities for the upcoming 5G Trial during Copa America next month.

 

Lots of info in the article and in the linked FCC applications from Nokia and Ericsson about the frequencies/equipment/setups for each venue.

 

(BTW: Sprint is a Copa America Sponsor)

Wow, the other carriers are using absurdly high spectrum. It seems like 5G is just going to be for special use cases, like very high density stadiums and event centers and such. I'm surprised that would really even penetrate someone's pocket, and definitely won't make it through a wall or other obstacles. Those are line of sight microwave frequencies right?

 

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Seeing that now, not sure how that would work. Hopefully its not limited to Sprint direct devices.

I think it might be. It seems the reason Passpoint doesn't work on Nexus devices is because it's dependent on Sprint Connection Optimizer, which obviously isn't on Nexus devices. I'm guessing this would be the same.

 

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If im not mistaken Sprint broadcast 2.5 from those small cells, so there is no logging in, it should be seamless for Sprint users.

I assumed those were different models, since the article says "Sprint Wi-fi" in bold at the bulletpoint.

 

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Check out this very interesting Forbes article about Pinsight Media, a subsidiary of Sprint that does big data, behavioral analytics and app development.

 

Pinsight Media is also playing a central role as the landing page for the Kansas City WiFi Project that's going live today.

 

Sprint just posted an article about the WiFi Project as well.

I'm guessing the Sprint only access requires Passpoint. Which STILL doesn't work on Nexus devices, despite the functionality supposedly being included in Marshmallow.

 

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Its progress and Sprint still has plenty of work to get the market fully ready for prime time

It also doesn't help that Sprint's PCS holdings here are so small, since they sold some to ATT many years ago. They're supposedly working to refarm enough CDMA to add a second 5x5 B25 carrier, but they'd have to drop down to 1 CDMA and 2 EVDO (I think) carriers to make that happen. They still have at least 2 CDMA and 3 EVDO carriers live last I looked.

 

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XB designates an ODAS headend for XD nodes.

Do you know what any of the other designations are? XC I assume is a regular macro? Though I do see it for some DAS nodes/antennas as well. And XR is repeater or DAS antenna I believe? XM I think is for a microwave link. Can you think of any more?

 

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They are blaming local permits but what's strange is the other carriers do not seem to be having these permit delays. I think it is just a cover up for some other reason. I read previous delays were from birds!

I'd believe permit delays were an issue in the SF Bay area, but you're right other carriers are getting them through. Perhaps the other carriers planned further ahead? Or have more people dedicated to the permitting process. I know some Sprint sites here are on historical landmarks, whereas the other carriers are on nearby buildings instead. At least one of the landmark sites was stuck for years before NV 1.0 was applied, then another 9+ months before it got LTE. It finally got LTE (and B41) a month ago. And this was the only site serving a high population + tourist attraction neighborhood. The whole area was a legacy (and later NV 1.0 3G) wasteland that was completely unusable during normal times, let alone when they had a big event.

 

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They only airport I've seen Sprint blow away competition is O'Hare... regularly over 100 down.

O'Hare is good, all served by nearby B41 macros. SFO is also pretty good, B41 in a ring of sites surrounding the airport and fast B25/B26 on their internal DAS. The DAS came online a few months before the Superbowl.

 

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I'd rather not others eat my potentially limited bandwidth speeds, eat my data caps, and me getting RIAA/MPAA notices in my email.

 

If Im the only one with a cell, it could be easy for a dozen or two devices to be connected to the 2.5GHz.

I would imagine if they rolled it out for consumer use, it would have optional access controls like the current airave.

 

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That must have been done in the last couple of weeks because last time there was nothing but 1x or 3G in the transbay tunnel. I hope Sprint gets the rest up and running soon.

It wasn't there on April 13 when I took BART to the airport (well, I had picked up the GCI near CCSF on March 30, but I assume that was just in very early test mode). So it definitely rolled out in the last 2 weeks or so. Like I said, most of the transbay tunnel was 3G still, but progress is being made. I think they're still in the middle of rolling it out. I first noticed it around Glenn Park (I saw I still had LTE, and usually the southern portion's DAS cuts out by then). It held until I left Embarcadero, then changed GCIs (to 0A636000 from 0A636400, so pretty close and in the GCI range for new builds) before dropping to 3G.

 

Hopefully they can get B41 on it (or at least B26), because I'm not sure if B25 alone can handle the load especially during peak times. Then hopefully Oakland gets LTE underground as well. It seems that Sprint is really working on getting LTE on transit system DAS installations lately (NYC and DC being examples). Though it was 6+ months between getting the southern BART DAS upgraded and it going live on the downtown SF portion, so who knows.

For simplicity. And if you leave the house while on a call that the call won't drop. But from what I've heard the Sprint airave isn't very good at handoffs to begin with.

It works if you have some coverage outside the house and you're handing off from the airave to the macro site. It will not hand off from a macro site to the airave though. It's one way.

 

LTE would be nice even if just to keep the phone from constantly scanning for LTE while on the airave.

 

Unfortunately wifi calling isn't an option for everyone. It still isn't available on Nexus devices, doesn't hand off at all, and the people I know on Sprint with Galaxy S5s and S6s constantly have problems with it, where it stops working several times a day and requires being toggled off and on again to reconnect.

 

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The BART DAS has now been upgraded under SF (the southern portion's DAS was upgraded a while ago). Only B25 is present, but it's somewhat weak and unstable at times (-100 dBm in the stations). It changed GCIs once I entered the transbay tube and then cut out when I hit the bottom of the bay. So it's likely still be deployed. It seems to be independent (or fed from a different source) from the CDMA portion on the DAS. It's about time!

Given the threat of patent lawyers, I would assume a slightly different explanation will ultimately be found for Android phones. I only saw this issue on CA phones. The common view was it was a bug, I saw it as a benefit.

 

WiWavelength's work is well researched and definitely a welcome addition for S4GRU.

Sprint CA phones, or phones capable of CA on any carrier? Because the Nexus 6 got this "issue" after the Marshmallow upgrade, but didn't have it with Lollipop.

 

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No sprint does not need to win pr battles now.

 

Sprint needs to continue to try and make a reliable network. The PR epeen stunts will come later when the vast majority of subscribers can experience the epeen and not just a few Marque markets.

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X

Exactly. They need to increase site density, whether that's with small cells or new macros.

 

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