iansltx

1 hour ago, red_dog007 said:

I just switched my parents from VZW to US Mobile on VZW.  Their plans are $15/mo for 2.5GB, $30 for 10GB, $40 for unlimited and discounts with unlimited family.  They opted for the two lines $70/mo unlimited. 

Good to know that Ting exists.  Looks like some decent pricing for VZW network, includes hotspot which is nice.  I think US Mobile it is an add-on feature.

Looks like the limited US Mobile plans give you full speed and hotspot, but those are add-ons for unlimited. I've had good luck with Ting customer service so I'm willing to pay a little more for them.

Just confirmed that 5G is *not* included on VZW yet on Ting, which makes sense (and doesn't matter a ton anyway in my area because they won't have n5). Also confirmed that data/video is *not* throttled, which is a significant upgrade from Boost or Metro, both of which cap video at 480p.

Yesterday Ting released new plans. All are available on either T-Mobile or VZW networks. The fixed-allotment plans are comparable to what Boost has ($25 for 5GB, $45 for 22GB with 12GB tethering, $60 for 35GB with 30GB tethering), plus they have a $10 per line plan that adds data when needed at $5/GB.

The interesting thing here is they say 5G is supported on all plans...which makes sense for T-Mobile, but I wonder if this also includes UW on VZW.

For T-Mobile based service, Mint is cheaper if you're willing to lock in pricing, but being able to pay month-to-month with Ting is nice, as is pooled data and VZW network support. I'll likely pull my mom's S20 from Pure Talk to Ting-on-VZW, as she's having issues with connectivity for some reason and I know VZW is fine in that area (T-Mobile is more fiddly). I'll move others' phones over once they get new devices, I think.

6 hours ago, mmark27 said:

Sorry, can't remember are you Sprint, T-mobile, or unlocked? Were you on the beta?

My device is Sprint-locked, on standard Sprint (not TNX). I was on the beta, starting with the incredibly unreliable initial release

Got the release version of Android 11 a day or two ago. Two updates back to back. Just confirmed that B41 CA is there.

7 hours ago, red_dog007 said:

$43/mo is the regular rate for 25Mbps.  $63 regular rate gets you 100Mbps.  We have Charter here too and it is a couple dollars more than Comcast for 100Mbps regular rate.

I know TVision is a thing. Is TMobile doing bundling discounts though? Older folks also want their channels that they watch and these "skinny" packages tend to miss one or more major channels of interest so TVision likely isn't going to be a reasonable choice. Plus there is a ton of competition here.  TVision is also very sports heavy.  Live TV+ with 56 channels, 24 are sport channels. 4 Big 10 and 8 ESPN College Extra. Talk about bloat...

I think if the carriers go into this not wanting to compete against cable to avoid deploying in those areas, that to many they will be doing a disservice.  Landline ISPs have horrible maps. They don't even know sometimes that they have service in a particular area. Example, where my mom lives:  She has access to 4 ISPs. 3 of them offer 1Gbps.  Yet just on the other side of the ridge you are lucky to have 3Mbps DSL, many don't have any internet options but HughesNet. Yet we are all serviced by the same exact tower. I wonder what the exact criteria is to get a site like this flagged for fixed wireless services.

Wait, you can get both Charter and Comcast at the same address? That's super rare, and explains why Comcast would have halfway reasonable pricing in your area.

As for maps, I don't think T-Mobile is focusing on building out capacity for home broadband in particular. They're trying to strengthen their network across the board, and providing enough capacity for high peak speeds also provides enough capacity for fixed wireless, so why not sell it?

My understanding of their deployment model is sectors (not entire sites) that consistently have plenty of spare capacity on the LTE side. THat could be on 600, 700, PCS, or AWS, or some combination thereof. If that happens to cover an area with no other internet options that are decent, it's that much easier to sell the service.

Once they get 5G home broadband equipment online, I expect the number of areas with sufficient extra capacity to grow, particularly in places where they have mid-band. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if fixed wireless was available in 100% of places with mid-band coverage, while for n71 coverage would be necessary but not sufficient.

10 hours ago, red_dog007 said:

That $100+/mo is for those crazy high speeds. Even Comcast's 600Mbps regular rate is under $100 at $93/mo.  At least here. The cheapest offering is 25Mbps for $43/mo.

But then talking 60+, these people want their traditional cable TV.  Comcast will have the power of bundling.  Not sure if TMobile is there yet across their services.

 

Depends on what channels folks are looking for. Remember that TVision is a thing now, and is a good bit less expensive than bloated cable packages.

Also AFIK the $43/mo is an intro rate with bundling; post-promo standalone rates are on the order of $63. In Spectrum territories, home internet is gonna end up around $75/mo post-promo...yes, it's for 200/10, but there's a huge segment of folks who don't care about that speed.

With all that said, LTE home broadband is going to remain something slated for primarily areas where TMo isn't competing with cable, and once they have 5G home internet online the speeds will exceed Comcast's lower tier(s).

Just did an AMR-WB 12.5 kbps (pretty sure those were the numbers) call where a T-Mobile customer called me. Not sure whether it was WiFi or VoLTE, as I had him turn off WiFi partway through and the call didn't drop, but while the call wasn't quite as clear as EVS (or at least didn't feel quite as clear) or Duo, it was perfectly listenable, despite running in an area I know is iffy signal-wise.

https://www.lightreading.com/open-ran/dish-networks-turns-on-first-5g-test-site-taps-intel-for-silicon/d/d-id/765125

Betting they'll start with tri-band base station equipment but only turn on n71, using the spectrum they haven't leased to TMo.

Outdoor-only coverage with n71 sounds like a super thin network deployment. They're gonna have to do something creative pricing-wise to get anyone to actually use the network, given that basically everyone on Boost Mobile doesn't have a 5G phone.

Just caught, but couldn't connect to, n41 a little north of the 183/183A split north of Leander. 40 MHz. So that's at least a third site on top of the two I scoped out a few weeks back.

Coming back from Sweetwater, I saw 10 MHz B71 doing the lion's share of the work keeping coverage, but my guess is that SA-capable SIMs would've locked into the 15-20 MHz of n71 that was there for most of the way. Around Goldthwaite there didn't seem to be native TMo service, though south of there I latched onto a rank-4 MIMO 10 MHz Sprint B25 carrier...first time I've seen that on Sprint...with 60+ Mbps speeds with no CA. This site was *not* 312-250, interestingly enough. By that point, AT&T roaming no longer appeared to be allowed.

There were maybe 15 miles of that trip where I was roaming on AT&T, and maybe another 5-10 where I had Sprint but no TMo native. Saw a few 312-250 sites, one of which was a bit south of Sweetwater.

The amount of ground TMo now covers thanks to B71 actually makes it a reasonable option in those areas. AT&T is still better in terms of time without service, with basically 100% coverage along the route, but particularly on postpaid I think Sprint-on-TMo qualifies as Good Enough. You couldn't say that four years ago (not sure when exactly the B71 came online).

17 hours ago, Destroyallcubes said:

Quick look, looks like it was a 20mhz connection on N2, that's not too bad. Wonder if it's DSS or all n2 being converted from LTE. Also noticed B1w being the Primary carrier with N2, that's interesting. From what I've seen in my locale is B2 is the primary LTE carrier with N5 being the NR band of choice.

B12?

Yeah, it appears as though if you do NSA you have to pick a low-band PCC if you run mid-band NR, or vice versa. Rather curious if they'll use B14 as a PCC anywhere.

As for whether n2 is DSS or not, should be trivial to check, but there's no way AT&T would be willing to remove 20 MHz of LTE capacity in favor of NR at this stage; that's gotta be DSS (and you should be able to verify that by switching back to 4G only mode and checking EARFCNs).

17 hours ago, Destroyallcubes said:

Well no phones run N30 yet, and there is no N46 to my knowledge. 3G is going to be sunset and it'll be completed by what 2022 iirc. Could always just turn that off on sites early. Doubt it though. Most likely will use DSS though

To be clear, I'm betting they'll run n5 dedicated, plus maybe n2/66, as well as additional LTE on 30 and maybe 46.

I seriously doubt they'll drop H+ in these areas until their deadline. Far too many phones can't do VoLTE on AT&T.

Northwest of Fredericksburg on 87 there's a site or two with 15 MHz n71 and a 5 MHz B66 anchor. Hit in excess of 150/15 there, though I had to force B71 for a few seconds to stop my phone from roaming on AT&T LTE at 256 kbps. Found a spot where AT&T only has WCDMA so I couldn't roam there at all.

Anyone know what T-Mobile (e.g. TNX) has roaming-wise with AT&T? T-Mobile is world's better than Sprint along this route (with a few exceptions closer to Fredericksburg where Sprint has B41 etc deployed)b butwithout AT&T roaming there are sizable dead zones.

EDIT: the B66 carrier looks to be configured pretty universally as 4-rank MIMO guessing the point there is to extend range as much as possible so NSA 5G devices have the best chance of connecting. Thinking that's also why they're running a narrower channel, to concentrate Tx/Rx power.

EDIT 2: I've seen a couple 312-250 sites on the way up, including a triband site in Sweetwater. T-Mobile is B2+12 here at 5 MHz each...surprisingly no band 71 of any type. B2 is a bit of a mess but B12 seems fine, though the Sprint network performs better (10x10 + 5x5 of B25, plus 2CA B41, plus B26). The T-Mobile site is significantly closer than the Sprint site to the Wal-Mart parking lot I'm currently sitting in, so if I don't force band selection I wind up on that site, but I imagine the Sprint site gets preferred elsewhere in town, as well it should.

6 hours ago, Destroyallcubes said:

 

Yep any phone not on Android 11 will be stuck on N5 selectively.  They will enable more bands in the coming months. N2 would be impossible to connect to on phones currently unless they ran a specific dialer code and enabled them. But even then it may not connect to them. I've changed the CSCs to other carriers on my U1 version and 5G will not ever show up. Something in the ATT csc is allowing the NR to connect. 

 

I still can't go off of hearing about n2 or n66 being live until a screenshot of the engineering screen is posted unfortunately. I am sure in someplace it could be on. DSS is live in a very few select places , specifically know in North Texas it was being tested 

See Techxstremist on YouTube. He's in Phoenix and has shown engineering screens with 15 MHz n2.

In other news, Fredericksburg, TX appears to be getting small cells: https://www.fredericksburgstandard.com/news/att-works-toward-5g-installation. Curious what all they'll deploy there, as they only have enough 850 in the area to run 5 MHz of n5. As the article says, they aren't doing mmWave, but they have plenty of PCS and AWS so maybe they'll run NR there. Maybe 10 MHz B30 as well. LAA would be a long shot but no reason they *couldn't* do it I suppose.

Here's the official press release for the latest mid-band launch:

https://www.t-mobile.com/news/network/fast-mid-band-5g-new-cities-towns-location-coverage

The Texas cities are all Houston-area.

20 hours ago, Destroyallcubes said:

With the android 11 beta they enabled SA 5G on the U1 ATT software. Also saw N2, and N66 enabled. N12 should follow suit next. 

SA will be when DSS is enabled my guess. Not sure if DSS can work in NSA mode.

VZW is running DSS on NSA, so it's definitely possible. I've seen reports that AT&T is running DSS on n2 at the very least.

On my mom's unlocked S20 n5 is the only NR band visible when running in AT&T mode.

Where she lives, it appears as though AT&T has turned off B5 LTE entirely, running a dedicated 5 MHz for NR (speculated), plus 5 MHz for H+ (confirmed). My guess is that they have enough subscribers that can't do VoLTE that moving H+ to PCS here would be a disaster coverage-wise, and there's no point running DSS on a 5 MHz channel when they have, from what I can tell, 15x15 of PCS, 15x15 + 10x10 of AWS, 10x10 B30, 5x5 B12 + 5 MHz B29, and of course 10x10 of B14 to play with.

By contrast, the brother that just got a Moto g fast is in an area where AT&T is still running B5 LTE, as well as H+ on 850. No n5 at all. Betting that's because that cell site hasn't been touched in awhile (no AWS, no B30, no B14 AFAIK), so there's no NR to turn on and not enough low-band capacity if you dropped B5 LTE. But VoLTE works fine on the new phone, just not sure whether his suddenly better reception is due to using B12 or whether the radio in the g fast is just that good compared to the OG pixel while still using B5.

Tethering for the first time in a bit (non-TNX BTW) and I'm pulling a T-Mobile IP address. Can't exactly tell how I'm being routed, but pings (as low as low 30s to 4.2.2.4 in Dallas) are in line with pure T-Mobile routing rather than proxying through Sprint, thoguh T-Mobile's speedtest.net servers aren't visible. The last time I tethered, I got a Sprint CGN IP and was proxied through both backbones, driving up latency significantly. GeoIP says I'm in Oklahoma.

Pulling as much as 60/6 indoors (10 MHz B66, 15x15 each of n71 and B71) in an area that T-Mobile's MVNO map says barely has outdoor coverage. I'll take it, as I'm feeling slightly too lazy to fix the WiFi repeater setup here so I get solid connectivity that way.

Just saw a 312-250 site just west of where 3232 intersects 290 well west of Austin. Had 55 MHz of B41 deployed, plus the typical couple of B25 carriers. Pretty quickly switched back to T-Mobile, with 10 MHz B2 + 20 MHz n71. Before that site I was seeing 5 MHz B2 + 15 MHz NR.

EDIT: A bit east of Stonewall, seeing 15 MHz n71 plus 10 MHz N71, with a tiny 5 MHz of B2 serving as the NSA anchor. Saw B71 and n71 aggregating on my S20. You definitely want band 71 support in this area.

EDIT 2: The site south of Fredericksburg has 15 MHz n71 + 15 MHz N71, plus 5+10 MHz of B66 (at least the 10 MHz is MFBI with B4). And yet B2 is preferred despite having 5 MHz to play with. Bizarre.

10 hours ago, mdob07 said:

If they trade it'll be AT&T most likely since they own the B block and Bluegrass has C block. 

Ah, fair point. Maybe they'd still get B66 in return?

On 10/23/2020 at 6:22 AM, mdob07 said:

That'll be interesting to watch. I don't think they own much of their own spectrum, they do have 5x5 B12 and 5x5 B2 in my area. Bluegrass is a huge part of the Verizon network in KY via Verizon's LTEiRA program.

Betting VZW trades that B12 to TMo for B66 eventually.

Confirmed that AT&T is running dedicated n5 here, at 10 MHz, by process of elimination. LTE is 10x10, and H+ is 5x5. They might be running DSS or n2 or n66 but I kinda doubt it. Guessing they aren't running H+ on every site anymore either; signal appeared a good bit weaker than the B5 LTE signal when I band selected to it.

Also, B14 is pretty obviously not on every site here; signal levels at my place are comparable to B2 and, well, 700 should be a lot better than that. Explains why I wasn't seeing B14 aggregated normally. Though apparently they have 25 MHz of B66...one 15 MHz carrier, one 10 MHz.

They'll definitely announce TVision, but I rather doubt that they'll push it heavily along with their home broadband. Remember that the home broadband is LTE based right now, so there isn't a ton of capacity. They may allow folks to use the two together, but they won't encourage it.

With that said, if you can hand out new boxes with AV1 support, or even VVC, that might drop stream size down to the point where they're comfortable throwing it over LTE and actually promoting that arrangement.

This is in contrast to the Layer3 original product, which just threw a ton of bitrate at everything, resulting in both high quality and high bandwidth requirements.

8 hours ago, mdob07 said:

For VoLTE to work on AT&T the device almost has to be an AT&T branded version for it to be whitelisted. For some reason they don't allow factory unlocked or other provider unlocked phones to use VoLTE and some other network features. I dont know what their reasoning is for that. 

Yep. Mom's S20 does VoLTE just fine. The rest of the family (Moto X4, Moto E4 Plus, first-gen Pixel) are stuck on WCDMA for calls even though I know all three phones can do VoLTE if you shove them in T-Mobile's direction.

On 10/14/2020 at 2:14 PM, Trip said:

Looking at the map in this area (Fairfax County, VA), I see sites that I know do not have Band 5 LTE that are showing as having 5G NR.  I need to check if PCS is now running on some of them, as I've not done that in a while.  If it is, then PCS.  If not, AWS.

EDIT:  In Richmond, they hold both the A- and B-blocks in 850 MHz.  Pretty sure they're using 850 MHz there based on the far less defined coverage area, but I wonder if they're doing DSS at all and are, instead, splitting the spectrum.  Maybe next time I'm down that way I'll take my spectrum analyzer and see what I can see.

- Trip

Here AT&T is the one with both CLR-A and CLR-B. If I force B5 on my S20, I see a bandwidth of 10 MHz. When my Nighthawk M1 was active I saw 20 MHz there so I'm not 100% certain what's going on, but AT&T may have decided DSS wasn't worth it here and gone back to dedicated channels for LTE and NR. Should be able to investigate in a week or so when a family member with and AT&T phone is back in town.

VZW could handle things similarly if they think they have enough 5G phones in the field. Throw 10 MHz at NR, 15 MHz at LTE, with PRB blanking to slip some CDMA in there. Or just run 10x10 of each and don't do anything special for the CDMA channels.

On 10/15/2020 at 12:07 PM, red_dog007 said:

What would be funny is if VZ actually pushes those 13M users off their network.  VZ is doing fantastic with their limited resources, but to move 13M off your network onto your competitors, all while you still profit off these users and make your network even better for your post paid subscribers, brilliant!

That wouldn't make sense at all. If it made sense, Visible wouldn't run on VZW's network.

The marginal network costs of a user pushing several hundred minutes, a few thousand texts, and a couple gigs of data is next to nothing at this point if you own the network and it was built out for other reasons than that particular subscriber. Tracfone's brands tend low-usage, do even if Verizon successfully moves all of Tracfone's non-VZW customers to their network the DSS upgrade probably added more capacity than these folks use.

I do think Dish could still angle for some of these customers (particularly the MVNOs that solely run on T-Mobile). Question is whether Dish was/is willing to spend what it would take to acquire them, given that they already have a fair sized customer base to work with in Boost.

Ports for family just finished from TIng/Sprint to PureTalk/AT&T. Needed somewhere to go with decent connectivity and higher data caps vs. Ting, and porting from a Sprint MVNO to another Sprint MVNO would've been annoying. Since three of the four phones don't have B71, nor do they do VoLTE on VZW AFAIK, AT&T was the one to switch to.

One of those lines is getting ported to Mint next week.

The cell site 5 mi west of where one brother lives is enough for okayish B26 VoLTE indoors, and perfectly serviceable 1x voice in the same place. AT&T has 5 MHz of B12 in the area but apparently that's full up, so it's sub-megabit H+ indoors or B5 LTE outdoors...and even then the H+ is shaky. That's on an OG Pixel that won't do VoLTE on AT&T but will on T-Mobile.

For the other three family members, they'll stick with AT&T based service a bit longer. VoLTE is only available on one phone (the S20) but service quality is better 3.5 hours south (though AT&T similarly has half of B5 + 5 MHz of B12, plus the usual B4/14/66/30). Still plan to migrate everyone over to T-Mobile once I've confirmed either RMOCN to the outlying Sprint sites works or there's otherwise sufficient reception in the area.