ase500

 

It's not really the most professional video, but it's better than nothing

Nice except that was 28 Ghz not 30-60 and it was point to mobile point, not point multi-point. And that video also is 2 years old. About the same time they promised to put 802.11AD into the S6 and beyond. How did that turn out?

I never said it was simple, I'm not an engineer. But it's not as impossible as you guys are making it out to be if literally most engineers and basically every company is backing these trials.

Please provide proof these companies had committed to such trials.... I don't mean some random blurb about how it might be possible but, a proof of concept test result. Pictures, video, not papers about how it "could" be done..... 

I said next few years. I never said anything about standardizing. They're gonna be figuring out the tech over the course of the next few years. 

And Everyone else told you at least 10 years and you insisted on arguing. Even though 5G isn't even defined and won't be for at least 5 years. You kept bringing up WiGig a Defunct Group and 802.11AD which is not been produced in any mass device as of yet despite announcements from from heavy weights like Samsung, Panasonic, and TP-link. None of these companies have met release date of the technology some by years. Don't you think that sound very much like these heavy weights are having problems with even the small devices they are trying to develop? The deadline is 2019 for proof of concept and 2020 for technical specs. That means someone would have to already have a workable plan to get it into the specs in time for 5G. Yet here we are not even a small router to cover a small room has been successfully built and produced to market in 9 years. The most life we have seen in any use of such technology is for Wireless USB and Wireless HDMI. And 3gpp has said it will only entertain the idea of anything above 6 Ghz, they haven't even committed to hearing about technology above that frequency. If they are on the fence about 6 Ghz how do you think they feel about 30-60 Ghz? 

I actually posted a link or two yesterday, namely to NYU's 5G paper.

 

But you're right, costs is important. Ultimately in the next few years Nokia, Ericsson, Intel, Qualcomm have to work with carriers to make an affordable solution that can be deployed widespread and offer a reasonable return on investment.

You keep pointing at 5G as if that was next week or something. IMT 2020 gives until October of 2020 for submission of candidate technology. This means at least 2022 for final standards. With prototypes maybe around 2023. Full production of equipment in 2024 and maybe initial rollouts starting in 2025. You're talking 2027 or 2028 for anyone to have a large footprint of 5G. http://www.3gpp.org/news-events/3gpp-news/1674-timeline_5g

 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Play close attention to the bold part you wrote. If you still don't understand why ultra high band mobile internet won't happen in the next decade, then I give up.

He doesn't get it. He doesn't understand hype vs reality. If I bought into hype then my S7 should have 60Ghz already, they promised back in 2014 that all of their products would be 802.11ad 60Ghz by 2015. I give up on him. You and I and everyone else knows it isn't going to happen anytime soon. However, at 19 he just doesn't have the experience to understand why we are seeing these papers and why the hype.

 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Oh we're quite aware, we both know 802.11ad isn't for general public. Only for tech guys and, in my opinion, DAS systems for wifi in stadiums and colleges

It won't even work for that. Again get to far and the signal will degrade. Surrounded by people it would be unusable. Point to point links for short distance, maybe, but fiber prices are low enough to really make that pointless. Ad may very well just be doomed to be an interface similar to Bluetooth.

 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Well the point of 802.11ad isn't to necessarily improve your internet speeds but improve your home networking speeds, so for example making your file server deliver 4K video to your set top box faster without a wire.

One problem ac peaks at 5.3 Gbps which is far beyond what is needed for say 8k 3D content. Ac peak is far above what most users will need for some time. In home streaming is beyond most users. I have thousands of movies and TV shows to stream in upto 6 locations in the home. I have probably one of the most sophisticated sets you can imagine. Mythtv with kodi frontends locations include 3 bedrooms with 1080p, office at 1080p, livingroom at 4k, and a theater with 3d projection. Also an emby deployment to allow streaming to my devices over the Internet. With all of this I have yet to max out a gigabit network. I highly doubt the average user is going to max out an ac router. However a wireless connection on ad will give them no better connection out of the room the router is in and will give flaky and unreliable connections. The average user is not going to understand the limitations of such a device and will misunderstand how it could benefit them.

 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

As I said before, we have multiple papers on the propagation and coverage of mmW and of course the distance isn't great but it's only intended to cover places in a block by block basis sometimes more sometimes less depending on the type of traffic the area in question gets. And of course 2.5GHz small cell deployment! I'm talking more so long term for the other carriers who are running lower and lower on spectrum, Sprint's totally good right now (although if they can get some 28GHz as a failsafe, that would be nice)

Papers are great. I have paper from the 1970s on digital audio players. Papers are just that. You have to get to an actual product. That is simply just a lot harder than you understand. There just is no foreseeable future is those frequencies for cell phone use. This may change but for right now it makes no sense to even entertain the concept. No one has perfected any device for home use yet, let alone high availability services.

 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Trust me, I know I don't need 10Gbps. Give me 50Mbps and I'm a happy camper.

However, like I said, it's for the city. NYC,Chicago, LA, San Francisco, Houston, Jacksonville.. All populated markets with congestion issues. And the demand for data is constantly growing with increasing video consumption and live streaming. Even football stadiums with large DAS systems can't handle the crowd's consumption during a game. 5G's entire concept is to solve congestion issues. Crazy data speeds is just a byproduct.

Then what you want is 2.5 ghz micro cell deployment. Because as I stated before the data link would be unreliable at the frequency you are talking about and would increase overhead thus decreasing the actual throughput and as you move further from the cell you get the worse it would become.

 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/AD7200.html

Your next router, sir

And despite a release date of April they haven't shipped a single unit.....

 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Why would it take 10 years to take LTE and revise it for high bandwidth? Samsung built a 60GHz transmitter prototype in no time and got it working. They can build and finalize radios and we'll start to see deployment after 5 or 6, maybe 7 years. 2020-2022 is pretty much the expected time frame.

Because no one has built one yet. No one has setup and tested LTE at that frequency. Because you have debug the problems. You're talking about 3 years right there. Then you're into prototyping and fixing any problems that arise there. Then you have to go into production and field testing. That would all ad upto about another 3 years. Then you have to sell people on it and start contracts so you have the money to ramp up production. At least a year and a half. And at each turn updates to the protocols need to be tested. Then you need to start actual deployment. No network has even fully converted to LTE after 5 years. Since most fiber is only 10 Gbps at this point massive over haul of fiber across the country would need to be completed to support the backhauls needed to support what would have to be cells numbering into the millons per carrier. Even if the companies would spend that kind of cash needed to do it, we don't have the labor force to do it. And what would be the point? 4k streaming runs just fine on 60 Mbps. What exactly are you doing that you need more than 300 Mbps that 3CA will peak at? Data is exploding, yes, but that is going not going to continue and certainly not for cellphones. 8k is going to be about the peak for video streaming and vr is not going to require anymore than 8k. VR and 8k both will work just fine at 150 Mbps. I run what is essentially a small Datacenter on a 100 Mbps line in my home. There simply isn't anything that a cell phone is going to do in the next few years that is going to max out current round upgrades.

 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

I said this before, but from the looks of it 5G will be LTE with all the antenna and channel techniques we've been using & talking about with support for larger carriers. That's nothing too far fetched and complex. It's just putting it together in a box. Can we put 39GHz into already existing tech and have it live hanging on a pole in 6-10 years? I think so

Even if we could build the technology 10 years it would require another 5 to deploy and that's if production could be ramped up to handle it (unlikely). So you're looking at more like 20 years from now. Not in 5g.

 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

First of all, what does age have to do with anything? By that idea, any person of 50 should be smarter than any person of 20. While in some cases thats true, it's not always.

Second, this isn't just a marketing side show by Verizon. Intel, Samsung, Qualcomm are all experimenting with it. So is every major carrier INCLUDING Sprint. FCC is aware this spectrum is viable for 5G so they're kicking off the repurposing this summer. This is more than just fantasy idea; it's completely plausible.

Third, in the span of 6 years we brought phone technology from 500Kbps to 100Mbps. In 6 years we can figure out, build, and create technology to efficiently harness high band frequency for data at a reasonable cost with reasonable coverage.

Last but not least, and certainly most important, NYU's 5G Research Department did a paper covering the usage of mmW in cellular and came to the conclusion it's completely doable, and that coverage can spand several hundred meters (paper here: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=6515173).

 

It's ridiculous to claim 39GHz is not usable in cellular just like it was ridiculous to say 2.5GHz isn't usable in cellular. Will it be difficult? Yes, but technology constantly advances. I can see this happening in the next decade.

Ok buddy. Come back here when you're 30 and reread your posts. The human brain doesn't mature until about 25. Second we didn't go from 500k to where we are now in 6 years. Cellular moved from analog to digtal voice technology then simply upped the data channel. LTE is the very first data optimized cell protocol GSM, CDMA, EVDO and HSPA all were optimized for voice. LTE shares much more in common with WIMAX than any other technologies and that goes back to a lab at intel in 1996. It took 20 years not 6. It took 6 to adapt the networks to the technology that was already there.

 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Again, this isn't for indoor use, strictly outdoor data consumption. LTE-A will be relieved of congestion at that point because of 5G, so that most users will probably have at least 50Mbps for in office use. 5G will be using MIMO, beamforming, and QAM with new antenna techniques to boost signals, so we're looking at reasonable coverage from a small cell/DAS. Of course it'll need new equipment, but the point is the era of the macro with major planning permits will be a thing of the past, and at that point carriers will only need a simple pole permit to get the network up. I know we haven't hit the peak of 4G, but we will be soon as there isn't that much spectrum left to use. Could we hit 600Mbps? Yeah in some markets but never in NYC or LA. That's the point of 5G - provide ridiculous bandwidth to serve ridiculous numbers of people to ensure our LTE networks are clear for indoor use.

You still don't get it. Indoor or outdoor is irrelevant the distance wouldn't be far enough to make it useful. You would need to run fiber to every light poll and strap a micro cell to every light poll. Not exactly practical. Your young and obviously inexperienced in networking and I am really trying not to sound like a jerk hear but, I have almost as many years in technology as you have been alive. What you are talking about isn't going to happen for many years and certainly isn't going to happen during the next cycle of upgrades..... It isn't an opinion it is a fact. And I am done.

 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

The point is these high band networks have so much free spectrum, a carrier can be 160x160. That allows for major speeds and heavy capacity on small cells which allow major data flow.

 

5G is not meant for the entire country, just cities. It'll relieve mass congestion on the streets while LTE becomes unloaded for indoor operation. WiGig is alive because new WiGig equipment was shown in, and the point is that 60GHz in compact equipment is achievable.

Um so you expect them to put a micro cell in every room of your house and office. Maybe on evey light poll... Just accept that it isn't going happen. The higher the frequency the less penetration. It also mean the more fragile the data link. At the frequency you are talking about you would start losing speed at about ten feet and it would be unusable at less then 200 feet. You would have to boost with more power. See the problem. You may see these frequencies at some point, it won't be in 5g. You would nees to rip and replace nearly every piece of equipment in every network to even begin to support those frequencies. The power requirements and backhauls would all need to be upgraded. 5g hasn't been defined and we still haven't actually met 4g standards yet. WiGig is a fringe technology 7 years after conception. And on a side note any mobile technology will have to be national to be feasible. 60 percent of the population lives on cities of less than 100,000 and 40 percent live in cities of less than 50,000. This is the biggest reason why Verizon and AT&T have held onto their leads. Most of the people don't want to live in the center of a metro hence suburbs.

 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Anything above 10ghz is going to have that problem really. To go thru walls and other material you will have to pump up the power which basically means frying anything and everything.

 

Sent from my LGLS996 using Tapatalk

Exactly the problem.

 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

We have routers support WiGig which is 60GHz, they're small. It's only time until laptops, then tablets, and finally phones support 802.11ad. When phones support 802.11ad, they can easily do 39GHz phone networks.

 

Edit: https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2016/01/05/qualcomm-80211ad-products-lead-way-multi-band-wi-fi-ecosystem

There's already a laptop that can handle WiGig and smartphones are apparently in the pipeline for this year.

WiGig has been stalled for some time and hasn't shown much signs of life. WiGig is probably going to be used primary for near communications. I think the Wikipedia entry sums the problem up very well  "The 60 GHz signal cannot typically penetrate walls but can propagate off reflections from walls, ceilings, floors and objects using beamforming built into the WiGig system. When roaming away from the main room the protocol can switch to make use of the other lower bands at a much lower rate, both of which can propagate through walls." We are seeing it already with WiGig being used for Wireless USB and Wireless HDMI. I honestly don't see it becoming a main stream for networking. If you need 7 Gbps of transfer you probably are going to wire what ever it is. 

We have to start to get honest here, the average user can't tell the difference between 10 Mbps and 100 Mbps. The talk of "5G" is just hype at this point and using 39 Ghz on mobile networks is such a pipe dream at this point it isn't even funny. And when you see someone say we are "Testing" in a lab that in no way means they have had any success with it. The reason for even releasing such information is purely marketing. The average user thinks "More GHZ must be better" so they play on that. 

I even totaled my Isuzu SUV to go check it out.

At least you didn't get hurt.

Look what showed up on Sensorly

 

 

I wonder if it actually exists or if it's a mapping error

It is an error. Robert already checked it out.

It will be nice once midco finshes up I will have the choice of 2 different gigabit providers. Between midco and paul bunyan communications nearly all of northern Minnesota will have gigabit. Love it.

I am sure Robert can appreciate this. https://www.midcocomm.com/midcogig/

 

Health coverage is covering some of the costs. However, there is a gap of 10,000 out of pocket. Due to the location of the cancer she must do 3 day treatment sessions in fargo which is about 120 miles from Bemidji. So needless to say things are getting tight for the family. Even getting her to accept help has been tough though. People and their pride. Lucky I do her taxes and had her bank account information on hand. Thank you to those who have donated.

Phyllis Kolkin and her family need your help. Phyllis was diagnosed with sinus cancer and lymphoma. Any bit of help for this family would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance

 http://www.gofundme.com/fh1950

Seeing the same thing here in bemidji. Oddly here one tower went live with lte but only on b26.

Here is the setup I have and it works really smooth. Two HD Homerun Prime(6 Tuners total) run into a server running Ubuntu setup with MythTV. The Media server runs 2 3TB internal drives, and an External 3TB drive. All Movies are on one, all TV shows are on another and Music and DVR on the other. Shares are set for all drives. Then for front ends all four run OpenElec. For the front ends you can use something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856107141 just drop in a Hard drive or SSD a few gigs of memory and install OpenElec and your good to go. If you really want to make things fun, install XBMC on your phone and setup a VPN between your phone and router and you can even watch your files and tv from your phone anywhere you can get a good wifi connection.