LTE advanced and LTE 10 on sprint

[sprintfans]

Can someone knowledgeable on this subject please explain how different are they from older version of Lte Verizon and ATT are installing. What are the advantages of Sprint's LTE over Verizon and ATT?

 

Also 1 Gbps TD-LTE on sprint thru clear.I read somewhere it mimics FD-LTE does that mean it will work better than Wimax when on move?

[ericdabbs]

Well LTE release 10 is the LTE release version that is considered LTE Advanced. One of the biggest advantages about LTE Advanced is carrier aggregation which means you can group a bunch of smaller carriers together and make it like one big fat LTE pipe. I am sure there will be a ton of changes in LTE Release 10 to make it better than Release 8 and 9.

 

Verizon and AT&T are launching LTE Release 8 and Sprint is releasing LTE Release 9. I don't know the exact specific changes between the two but I have briefly skimmed over LTE Release 9 and it does have some improvements on interference management. Either way LTE Release 8 and 9 are not considered LTE-Advanced and all carriers are eventually moving over to Release 10 to be LTE-Advanced compliant.

 

In terms of 1 Gbps TD-LTE, you can just forget about that with Clearwire. The Clearwire CTO, John Saw has already come out and said that they did those tests as a proof of concept and is not meant for commercial deployment. To get 1 Gbps speeds would be ridiculous and it would take Clearwire something like one huge 80 MHz carrier along with 8x8 MIMO configuration to do so. John Saw also said that Clearwire will be deploying 20 MHz TD-LTE carriers at launch and eventually will be launching a 40 MHz TD-LTE carrier. There is absolutely no need for anything bigger than a 40 MHz carrier ATM and even a 40 MHz carrier is overkill. All 1 Gbps speeds would do currently is for speedtests and for show and not really useful.

 

Also TD-LTE and FD-LTE are different technologies. FD-LTE relies on symmetrical channels for the uplink and downlink hence 10 MHz x 10 MHz while TD-LTE is just one huge 20 MHz channel for the uplink and downlink. The benefits of TD-LTE is that you can dynamically allocate the amount of downlink and uplink bandwidth so you can potentially have higher speeds. I can imagine for a 20 MHz channel, you could allocate 15 MHz for downlink and 5 MHz uplink (15x5) for TD-LTE which is faster than a 10x10 for FD-LTE.

[4GHoward]

In terms of 1 Gbps TD-LTE, you can just forget about that with Clearwire. The Clearwire CTO, John Saw has already come out and said that they did those tests as a proof of concept and is not meant for commercial deployment. To get 1 Gbps speeds would be ridiculous and it would take Clearwire something like one huge 80 MHz carrier along with 8x8 MIMO configuration to do so. John Saw also said that Clearwire will be deploying 20 MHz TD-LTE carriers at launch and eventually will be launching a 40 MHz TD-LTE carrier. There is absolutely no need for anything bigger than a 40 MHz carrier ATM and even a 40 MHz carrier is overkill. All 1 Gbps speeds would do currently is for speedtests and for show and not really useful.

 

I wonder if Clearwire would actually deploy 80 MHz Carries if they happen to be partner up with the Federal Goverment. Will is still be overkill?

[lynyrd65]

8x8 mimo antennas in a phone would be a technological marvel. It would make sense of the 100mhz of spectrum was less than 2ghz but as it stands the signal just doesn't go very far or penetrate buildings well, It is best suited for use in small cells and large gathering areas where cell providers struggle to provide capacity for a large group of users rather than bandwidth speeds.

 

Putting 8x8 mimo and 80mhz carriers on their network would be irresponsible as it would fail to suit this need (in the capacity constrained areas) as the carrier would quickly reach its maximum user capacity. It would also set unrealistically high expectations for users who can't receive a good 2.5ghz signal (most people). They (might) be disappointed when they only get 60mbps when Sprint claims speeds of up to, whatever ungodly real world speed it is, let's say 400mbps.

[ericdabbs]

I wonder if Clearwire would actually deploy 80 MHz Carries if they happen to be partner up with the Federal Goverment. Will is still be overkill?

 

Even for the Federal Government 80 MHz carriers are overkill. Lets not forget that Clearwire does not have unlimited spectrum. 160 MHz on avg may seem like a lot but with 80 MHz carriers, its half the amount of spectrum they have. We also have to remember that the Wimax network is already taking up about 30 MHz of spectrum to support it. There is no way Clearwire will deploy past 40 MHz carriers they already said so. I would much rather have two 40 MHz carriers OR four 20 MHz carriers than a single 80 MHz carriers anyday. Lets not forget that in order to achieve those really high speeds, it not only depends on the amount of spectrum in the carrier but also the MIMO configuration. Even if you put a 100 MHz carrier with a 2x2 MIMO configuration it can only go so fast. You need to have a 4x4 or a 8x8 MIMO to help achieve faster speeds.

[sprintfans]

Well LTE release 10 is the LTE release version that is considered LTE Advanced. One of the biggest advantages about LTE Advanced is carrier aggregation which means you can group a bunch of smaller carriers together and make it like one big fat LTE pipe. I am sure there will be a ton of changes in LTE Release 10 to make it better than Release 8 and 9.

 

Verizon and AT&T are launching LTE Release 8 and Sprint is releasing LTE Release 9. I don't know the exact specific changes between the two but I have briefly skimmed over LTE Release 9 and it does have some improvements on interference management. Either way LTE Release 8 and 9 are not considered LTE-Advanced and all carriers are eventually moving over to Release 10 to be LTE-Advanced compliant.

 

In terms of 1 Gbps TD-LTE, you can just forget about that with Clearwire. The Clearwire CTO, John Saw has already come out and said that they did those tests as a proof of concept and is not meant for commercial deployment. To get 1 Gbps speeds would be ridiculous and it would take Clearwire something like one huge 80 MHz carrier along with 8x8 MIMO configuration to do so. John Saw also said that Clearwire will be deploying 20 MHz TD-LTE carriers at launch and eventually will be launching a 40 MHz TD-LTE carrier. There is absolutely no need for anything bigger than a 40 MHz carrier ATM and even a 40 MHz carrier is overkill. All 1 Gbps speeds would do currently is for speedtests and for show and not really useful.

 

Also TD-LTE and FD-LTE are different technologies. FD-LTE relies on symmetrical channels for the uplink and downlink hence 10 MHz x 10 MHz while TD-LTE is just one huge 20 MHz channel for the uplink and downlink. The benefits of TD-LTE is that you can dynamically allocate the amount of downlink and uplink bandwidth so you can potentially have higher speeds. I can imagine for a 20 MHz channel, you could allocate 15 MHz for downlink and 5 MHz uplink (15x5) for TD-LTE which is faster than a 10x10 for FD-LTE.

 

I read somewhere sprint LTE release 9 has advantage over Verizon and ATT as it can be upgraded to 10 with software upgrade whereas Verizon and ATT need hardware changes. Essentially Verizon and ATT will have to rebuild their entire network which is huge advantage for sprint. Also isnt the Sprint LTE on 800 mhz will be out of the box LTE advanced?

Edited May 16, 2012 by sprintfans

[4GHoward]

Does anyone know what the smaller carriers are launching such as Leap Wireless, MetroPCS, and U.S. Cellular?

[ericdabbs]

I read somewhere sprint LTE release 9 has advantage over Verizon and ATT as it can be upgraded to 10 with software upgrade whereas Verizon and ATT need hardware changes. Essentially Verizon and ATT will have to rebuild their entire network which is huge advantage for sprint. Also isnt the Sprint LTE on 800 mhz will be out of the box LTE advanced?

 

If this is true, then this is great news. If only a software upgrade is required on Sprint towers to be LTE release 10 compliant then that is great. I would hate to be Verizon or AT&T that has to come in the truck loads and install new equipment to be LTE release 10 compliant.

 

I am not sure what you mean by Sprint LTE at 800 MHz will be out of box LTE advanced. I think what Sprint meant by that is by the time 800 MHz LTE is launched, the towers will be upgraded to LTE release 10 and be LTE-Advanced compatible.

[ericdabbs]

Does anyone know what the smaller carriers are launching such as Leap Wireless, MetroPCS, and U.S. Cellular?

 

Not sure about Leap or USCC but I am pretty sure MetroPCS is LTE release 8 since they were the first carrier to launch LTE.

[sprintfans]

If this is true, then this is great news. If only a software upgrade is required on Sprint towers to be LTE release 10 compliant then that is great. I would hate to be Verizon or AT&T that has to come in the truck loads and install new equipment to be LTE release 10 compliant.

 

I am not sure what you mean by Sprint LTE at 800 MHz will be out of box LTE advanced. I think what Sprint meant by that is by the time 800 MHz LTE is launched, the towers will be upgraded to LTE release 10 and be LTE-Advanced compatible.

 

Yes it is true http://seekingalpha....right-lte-stuff

IF everything goes by plan Sprint will be in a very very good position compared to Verizon and ATT.

 

and thanks for clarifying 800 mhz LTE.

Edited May 16, 2012 by sprintfans

[danielholt]

i still have a hard time finding anyone who actually bought a metropcs LTE phone, i went to metropcs here in athens to test their blazing speeds....1mb down, 1mb up, cmon.....

[danielholt]

not only that, but metropcs LTE phones are the size of a small brick.

[WiWavelength]

Also TD-LTE and FD-LTE are different technologies. FD-LTE relies on symmetrical channels for the uplink and downlink hence 10 MHz x 10 MHz while TD-LTE is just one huge 20 MHz channel for the uplink and downlink. The benefits of TD-LTE is that you can dynamically allocate the amount of downlink and uplink bandwidth so you can potentially have higher speeds. I can imagine for a 20 MHz channel, you could allocate 15 MHz for downlink and 5 MHz uplink (15x5) for TD-LTE which is faster than a 10x10 for FD-LTE.

 

Eric, the above ("...you could allocate 15 MHz for downlink and 5 MHz uplink (15x5) for TD-LTE...") is incorrect. In TD-LTE, the "TD" stands for "time division." Uplink and downlink are not frequency duplexed; rather, they are time duplexed. In your example, the entire 20 MHz would be used for both uplink and downlink, both alternating in time. This is how WiMAX currently functions and TD-LTE will function.

 

AJ

[ericdabbs]

Eric, the above ("...you could allocate 15 MHz for downlink and 5 MHz uplink (15x5) for TD-LTE...") is incorrect. In TD-LTE, the "TD" stands for "time division." Uplink and downlink are not frequency duplexed; rather, they are time duplexed. In your example, the entire 20 MHz would be used for both uplink and downlink, both alternating in time. This is how WiMAX currently functions and TD-LTE will function.

 

AJ

 

Ah...you're right. I guess I meant to say that you could allocate more time to the downlink instead of uplink since they don't have to be symmetrical.

[WiWavelength]

Another difference between LTE and LTE Advanced is the uplink structure. Both LTE and LTE Advanced utilize an OFDMA downlink. However, LTE uses an SC-FDMA uplink, while LTE Advanced switches to an OFDMA uplink, which enables MIMO on the uplink. WiMAX already uses OFDMA on both uplink and downlink.

 

AJ