Jump to content

Network Vision/Unlimited LTE/Carrier Aggregation (moved from Athens GA Thread)


Recommended Posts

3g is not active in the athens/atlanta market so that would be expected I believe, I was going to map out coverage of that tower for everyone tomorrow and those LTE speeds are downright sexy.

 

 

For those worried about capacity issues with sprint Clearwire has said they can aggregate a 100mhz channel with LTE advance next year with only a software upgrade required after a tower has the LTE equipment and they have an average of 160 mhz of spectrum nationwide, about what att and Verizon have combined.

 

50x50 = 100mbps average download speeds on LTE!!! :o

 

For determining speeds on LTE

 

Average Spectral Efficiency * Bandwidth downlink = Average Data rate

 

2bit/hz * 50mhz = 100mbps !

 

Peak Spectral Efficiency * Bandwidth downlink = Peak Data rate

 

6bit/hz * 50mhz = 300mbps !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50x50 = 1gbps download speeds on LTE!!! :o

 

yep but its td so its a big 100mhz slice not 50x50 clearwire says they can then allocate capacity to the up and down link as needed. Now just because clear can have a 100mhz slice dosen't mean they will do it. Most of what I have read from Clearwire interviews was 2 or 3 20mhz channels bonded. Apparently bonding much more than that has a drag on efficiency. The point is however that spectrum is the least of Sprints concerns. More pressing is getting the money to pay for all of this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lets calm down here for a sec. I am sure Clearwire does not plan to launch more than two or three 20 MHz carriers at this time. There is no need to deploy all your spectrum when Clearwire does not have enough wholesale customers to support it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lets calm down here for a sec. I am sure Clearwire does not plan to launch more than two or three 20 MHz carriers at this time. There is no need to deploy all your spectrum when Clearwire does not have enough wholesale customers to support it.

 

Agreed. Deploying everything now would just incur them additional launch costs that would just make it more difficult for them to survive. Clearwire still has to be cautious about how they deploy LTE and how fast they do so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I should have been more clear, sorry clearwire *is able to* As I said in my second post 2 or 3 is more likely. The 100mhz was a clearwire marketing guy trumping up what they could do with there network in response to a question about competing with the big 2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LTE Carrier Aggregation is not the panacea its being heralded. It causes significant device battery drain and prevents the use of MIMO in smartphones.

 

I personally think deploying 5x5 LTE carriers is more than sufficient with Sprint spectrum. It performs more than acceptably and exceeds the needs of 95% of customers. Maybe even more. Sprint's 5MHz LTE is faster than most of their customers home ISP's! And it is way faster than smartphones can even appreciate and handle.

 

I think customers will really be more than happy with 10-15 Mbps LTE speeds. Any faster than that is just a pecker size contest. Sprint should reject carrier aggregation and just focus on more carriers (and spectrum) for capacity. Clearwire should also avoid CA and just deploy 20MHz TD-LTE carriers. They will exceed VZW speeds. That should be enough for bragging rights.

 

What would you rather have? A fast Sprint LTE device with a battery that lasts all day? Or a blazing fast Sprint LTE device with carrier aggregation that will last half a day?

 

For me the choice is easy. No carrier aggregation. I just think consumers are going to reject speeds beyond 10-15Mbps soon. It will just be bragging rights on paper only. It will have no real usable difference for smartphone users.

 

Robert via NOVO7PALADIN Tablet using Forum Runner

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10mb is more than sufficient...... you can only enjoy one app at a time... something like netflix will only use 1-3mbps .... i would ask to have 1-3mbps upload for instant photo sharing of course.... but i think sprint are on to something... i look forward to seeing real world results here pretty soon in the atlanta/athens markets.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would love to have 3Mbps uploads on a consistent basis. Then I could upload videos to YouTube for my church without any problems creeping up anymore. Uploads on WiMax have been too unstable for me since I first got the Clear iSpot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LTE Carrier Aggregation is not the panacea its being heralded. It causes significant device battery drain and prevents the use of MIMO in smartphones.

 

I personally think deploying 5x5 LTE carriers is more than sufficient with Sprint spectrum. It performs more than acceptably and exceeds the needs of 95% of customers. Maybe even more. Sprint's 5MHz LTE is faster than most of their customers home ISP's! And it is way faster than smartphones can even appreciate and handle.

 

I think customers will really be more than happy with 10-15 Mbps LTE speeds. Any faster than that is just a pecker size contest. Sprint should reject carrier aggregation and just focus on more carriers (and spectrum) for capacity. Clearwire should also avoid CA and just deploy 20MHz TD-LTE carriers. They will exceed VZW speeds. That should be enough for bragging rights.

 

What would you rather have? A fast Sprint LTE device with a battery that lasts all day? Or a blazing fast Sprint LTE device with carrier aggregation that will last half a day?

 

For me the choice is easy. No carrier aggregation. I just think consumers are going to reject speeds beyond 10-15Mbps soon. It will just be bragging rights on paper only. It will have no real usable difference for smartphone users.

 

Robert via NOVO7PALADIN Tablet using Forum Runner

 

Robert, do you have some links on the effect of carrier aggregation on MIMO? I know that MIMO is a challenge at 700 and 800MHz because of the size of the antennas and the lack of real estate on smartphones, but I'd like to read the technical reason on why you can't have MIMO and carrier aggregation at 1900MHz.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Robert' date=' do you have some links on the effect of carrier aggregation on MIMO? I know that MIMO is a challenge at 700 and 800MHz because of the size of the antennas and the lack of real estate on smartphones, but I'd like to read the technical reason on why you can't have MIMO and carrier aggregation at 1900MHz.[/quote']

 

We are planning an article on carrier aggregation based on internal Sprint documents we've seen. My info comes from that.

 

Robert - Posted from my E4GT with ICS using Forum Runner

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LTE Carrier Aggregation is not the panacea its being heralded. It causes significant device battery drain and prevents the use of MIMO in smartphones.

 

I personally think deploying 5x5 LTE carriers is more than sufficient with Sprint spectrum. It performs more than acceptably and exceeds the needs of 95% of customers. Maybe even more. Sprint's 5MHz LTE is faster than most of their customers home ISP's! And it is way faster than smartphones can even appreciate and handle.

 

I think customers will really be more than happy with 10-15 Mbps LTE speeds. Any faster than that is just a pecker size contest. Sprint should reject carrier aggregation and just focus on more carriers (and spectrum) for capacity. Clearwire should also avoid CA and just deploy 20MHz TD-LTE carriers. They will exceed VZW speeds. That should be enough for bragging rights.

 

What would you rather have? A fast Sprint LTE device with a battery that lasts all day? Or a blazing fast Sprint LTE device with carrier aggregation that will last half a day?

 

For me the choice is easy. No carrier aggregation. I just think consumers are going to reject speeds beyond 10-15Mbps soon. It will just be bragging rights on paper only. It will have no real usable difference for smartphone users.

 

Robert via NOVO7PALADIN Tablet using Forum Runner

 

I also think that it's a bit early to completely write-off aggregation. When EVDO came out, people complained about battery life. When LTE came out, people complained about battery life.

 

As chipsets mature and manufacturing processes mature, we see substantial improvements in battery life (28nm qualcomm, for example).

 

I always thought of aggregation as the best tool to seamlessly load balance between different bands. Do I have that wrong?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also think that it's a bit early to completely write-off aggregation. When EVDO came out, people complained about battery life. When LTE came out, people complained about battery life.

 

As chipsets mature and manufacturing processes mature, we see substantial improvements in battery life (28nm qualcomm, for example).

 

I always thought of aggregation as the best tool to seamlessly load balance between different bands. Do I have that wrong?

 

I don't disagree with your logic and conclusions. But when you consider that there is no capacity gain with carrier aggregation, there is only speed gain, why bother? This is just my opinion of course. Just one lone voice of many. But I don't have any interest in losing battery life for more speed that I don't need.

 

3-5Mbps meets my needs. 10-15Mbps is just gravy, to me. 30Mbps wireless speeds? It's hyperbole in my opinion. Why should carriers pay so much money for the extra speeds? Customers are not going to pay more for it. That's for darn sure.

 

Look at home ISP's. When there is a la carte pricing based on speed, the lion share of customers purchase speeds less than 10Mbps. If we did the same with mobile and institued speed based a la carte pricing, I bet consumers would not care one peep about 20, 30, 50Mbps mobile speeds. They would pick something that meets their needs. Like 5 to 10 Mbps.

 

If I owned a wireless company, I would go with 5x5 carriers and just keep adding for capacity. Market why it's better to have an unlimited 10Mbps network that meets your needs and avoid CA. All just my opinion.

 

Robert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would love to have 3Mbps uploads on a consistent basis. Then I could upload videos to YouTube for my church without any problems creeping up anymore. Uploads on WiMax have been too unstable for me since I first got the Clear iSpot.

 

You raise an interesting conundrum that I don't think Sprint has fully thought through. And this could possibly derail unlimited for the long run, but...

 

With unlimited LTE, Sprint LTE speeds are going to be faster than approx. 75% - 80% of their customers home ISP's. Many people may try to abandon their Home ISP's and try to exploit Sprint LTE for home service, or like in your case, why use a local ISP limited to 600k or 1.5Mbps upload speeds? Many people will jump on the Sprint LTE to do uploads with their 5-10Mbps upload speeds. Even I might be tempted. I only have 600kbps upload at my home myself.

 

I expect Sprint to crack down on unauthorized tethering on their new LTE network. The new network has ample controls to indentify tetherers. I don't see the status quo being maintained. And they are going to have to implement something to preserve the new network. Sprint does not have the spectrum resources to be a Home ISP for even 20% of its data customers.

 

Robert

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't disagree with your logic and conclusions. But when you consider that there is no capacity gain with carrier aggregation, there is only speed gain, why bother? This is just my opinion of course. Just one lone voice of many. But I don't have any interest in losing battery life for more speed that I don't need.

 

3-5Mbps meets my needs. 10-15Mbps is just gravy, to me. 30Mbps wireless speeds? It's hyperbole in my opinion. Why should carriers pay so much money for the extra speeds? Customers are not going to pay more for it. That's for darn sure.

 

Look at home ISP's. When there is a la carte pricing based on speed, the lion share of customers purchase speeds less than 10Mbps. If we did the same with mobile and institued speed based a la carte pricing, I bet consumers would not care one peep about 20, 30, 50Mbps mobile speeds. They would pick something that meets their needs. Like 5 to 10 Mbps.

 

If I owned a wireless company, I would go with 5x5 carriers and just keep adding for capacity. Market why it's better to have an unlimited 10Mbps network that meets your needs and avoid CA. All just my opinion.

 

Robert

 

That's a good point. I always just assumed that LTE advanced allowed for seamless hand-off. I don't want to go back to the days of getting stuck on 1x while streaming radio, heh.

 

So, without LTE-Advanced, would it be possible to do seamless hand-offs between different 5x5 carriers? It seems like there would be no point to LTE-Advanced if Sprint could manage traffic with seemless handoffs (IE I am streaming radio outside, walk inside, seamlessly hand-off to ESMR from PCS to have an uninterrupted listening experience).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a good point. I always just assumed that LTE advanced allowed for seamless hand-off. I don't want to go back to the days of getting stuck on 1x while streaming radio, heh.

 

So, without LTE-Advanced, would it be possible to do seamless hand-offs between different 5x5 carriers? It seems like there would be no point to LTE-Advanced if Sprint could manage traffic with seemless handoffs (IE I am streaming radio outside, walk inside, seamlessly hand-off to ESMR from PCS to have an uninterrupted listening experience).

 

With buffering ahead in a streaming experience, there should be no issues handing off between LTE carriers, or even LTE Advanced carriers, from a streaming performance standard. However, if you are in a position where you were not buffered ahead very far, you may notice handoffs.

 

Robert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You raise an interesting conundrum that I don't think Sprint has fully thought through. And this could possibly derail unlimited for the long run, but...

 

With unlimited LTE, Sprint LTE speeds are going to be faster than approx. 75% - 80% of their customers home ISP's. Many people may try to abandon their Home ISP's and try to exploit Sprint LTE for home service, or like in your case, why use a local ISP limited to 600k or 1.5Mbps upload speeds? Many people will jump on the Sprint LTE to do uploads with their 5-10Mbps upload speeds. Even I might be tempted. I only have 600kbps upload at my home myself.

 

I expect Sprint to crack down on unauthorized tethering on their new LTE network. The new network has ample controls to indentify tetherers. I don't see the status quo being maintained. And they are going to have to implement something to preserve the new network. Sprint does not have the spectrum resources to be a Home ISP for even 20% of its data customers.

 

Robert

 

Yes, it's like opening Pandora's Box.

 

I know someone on a legacy Verizon unlimited plan with unlimited hotspot (that was actually offered by Verizon). It's used as the primary internet connection at a residence that streams a lot of netflix. 20GB+ a month is typical.

 

We've seen sprint axe ALL legacy unlimited tethering plans last fall. Cracking down on illegal tethering will be a must.

 

It should be interesting how network performance evolves over time.

 

I thought it was interesting Sprint's management team stated that they haven't seen a change in new subscriber usage trends since they became the only carrier offering unlimited. Many bloggers predicted that all the heavy users would flock to Sprint... but that hasn't been the case according to Hesse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought it was interesting Sprint's management team stated that they haven't seen a change in new subscriber usage trends since they became the only carrier offering unlimited. Many bloggers predicted that all the heavy users would flock to Sprint... but that hasn't been the case according to Hesse.

 

If you are a heavy user, performance is likely a very important factor. And Sprint hasn't been a network performance leader the past 18 months. :)

 

Hopefully, these heavy users at Verizon and AT&T have been "reprogrammed" and don't consume data the way they used to. I would hate to see a large influx of new system hogs invade the unlimited LTE network. It just will mean draconian limitations for us sooner than later.

 

Robert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You raise an interesting conundrum that I don't think Sprint has fully thought through. And this could possibly derail unlimited for the long run, but...

 

With unlimited LTE, Sprint LTE speeds are going to be faster than approx. 75% - 80% of their customers home ISP's. Many people may try to abandon their Home ISP's and try to exploit Sprint LTE for home service, or like in your case, why use a local ISP limited to 600k or 1.5Mbps upload speeds? Many people will jump on the Sprint LTE to do uploads with their 5-10Mbps upload speeds. Even I might be tempted. I only have 600kbps upload at my home myself.

 

I expect Sprint to crack down on unauthorized tethering on their new LTE network. The new network has ample controls to indentify tetherers. I don't see the status quo being maintained. And they are going to have to implement something to preserve the new network. Sprint does not have the spectrum resources to be a Home ISP for even 20% of its data customers.

 

Robert

 

In my case I have no access to land based ISP's period. So maybe a data card would be to my favor in the long run. I just have to be careful not to go over the limit since overage is charged per MB, not $10 per GB over.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my case I have no access to land based ISP's period. So maybe a data card would be to my favor in the long run. I just have to be careful not to go over the limit since overage is charged per MB, not $10 per GB over.

 

I feel for your circumstance. But unfortunately for the long run, you will likely need to figure something else out. In order to keep unlimited for smartphones, Sprint will have to crack down on tethering. Usage limits for hotspots and data cards are going to be sticking around. If you must stay with a mobile broadband ISP, then you will likely have to find a way to stay within a usage threshold of 5GB or 10GB some time in the future.

 

Robert

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel for your circumstance. But unfortunately for the long run, you will likely need to figure something else out. In order to keep unlimited for smartphones, Sprint will have to crack down on tethering. Usage limits for hotspots and data cards are going to be sticking around. If you must stay with a mobile broadband ISP, then you will likely have to find a way to stay within a usage threshold of 5GB or 10GB some time in the future.

 

Robert

 

Actually, Sprint Mobile Broadband Cards are 6GB & 12GB.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, Sprint Mobile Broadband Cards are 6GB & 12GB.

 

I was speaking generically. Thanks for the clarification.

 

Robert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, Sprint Mobile Broadband Cards are 6GB & 12GB.

I was speaking generically. Thanks for the clarification.

 

Robert

 

Sprint's broadband cards aren't unlimited anymore? Last time I looked, 4G was unlimited but 3G was limited to 5GB/month. I'm grandfathered into an old unlimited plan on 3G, otherwise I wouldn't be able to work from home.

 

If I can't get unlimited on LTE with a broadband card then I'm in deep doo-doo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sprint's broadband cards aren't unlimited anymore? Last time I looked, 4G was unlimited but 3G was limited to 5GB/month. I'm grandfathered into an old unlimited plan on 3G, otherwise I wouldn't be able to work from home.

 

If I can't get unlimited on LTE with a broadband card then I'm in deep doo-doo.

 

Sprint dumped unlimited 4G data on broadband cards last year and gave a generous offering of 6 & 12 GB plans to 1-up on Verizon. If you had Clearwire, they have unlimited for $35/mo that's throttled to 1.5Mbps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Man, now I'm seriously bummed. :dep: Guess it's been a while since I checked and never noticed the change.

 

I was so excited I was finally going to have real high speed internet at home with the arrival of LTE. I guess I will at least get the benefit of better 3G on NV, but until Time Warner (probably never) or CenturyLink (who knows when) brings something I guess I'm still stuck.

 

I guess I could get a new LTE card as well and use that until I reach the cap, then switch over to the 3G card when I don't need as much bandwidth. But man, that gets expensive even with my discount.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • large.unreadcontent.png.6ef00db54e758d06

  • gallery_1_23_9202.png

  • Posts

    • I posted this in the Nebraska Premier thread last week, but just wanted to share in this thread the progress that T-Mobile has made in filling in the great coverage gap known as Nebraska. Between late last year and this year, they have added 28 new expansion sites filling in the coverage hole, plus 11 Sprint site conversions in eastern Nebraska and far western Iowa. Notably, in the last month n41 coverage was added on over a dozen expansion sites in western Nebraska that were added to the network last year. For comparison, here is the very first map that I created in October of 2022 after we noted expansion sites outside of Sprint conversion in Lincoln and Omaha. It doesn't show any western parts of the state, but just know there was nothing besides roaming coverage and a little B12 coverage leaking down from South Dakota to the west of Valentine, NE.
    • Sent a copy of my DB in an e-mail just now.  Couldn't leave the house today but can hopefully get a screenshot when I'm out on another cell site tomorrow.
    • 76MB Google Play System update after that, bringing the date up to 3/1 from prior 2/1 date. 
    • April security patch is already out - 738.30 MB download. 
    • What do you see with the latest alpha/ beta version?
  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...