Jump to content
PythonFanPA

Dish Network/Boost Mobile cell/5G buildout thread

Recommended Posts

Hot take for y'all: if DIsh doesn't come to an agreement to buy Boost, they should be forced to lease their spectrum to whoever does, indefinitely. Because we all know that, given the option, Dish will sit on their spectrum and do precisely nothing useful with it for years. Right up until they're forced to loan it to someone who actually has a network.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hot take for y'all: if DIsh doesn't come to an agreement to buy Boost, they should be forced to lease their spectrum to whoever does, indefinitely. Because we all know that, given the option, Dish will sit on their spectrum and do precisely nothing useful with it for years. Right up until they're forced to loan it to someone who actually has a network.
Could be but that's also a pretty big fine to pay.

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Tengen31 said:

Could be but that's also a pretty big fine to pay.

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk
 

Oh, it's definitely a huge fine to pay. The intention is getting a 4th mobile carrier out of this, and I'd personally rather it be dish if they get their darned network deployed.

They actually have plenty of spectrum of their own, and have it spec'd for largely unpaired use on the AWS side, so with NR-SA they could have some pretty phenomenal speeds. If they ever. Freaking. Deploy. Their. Network.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh, it's definitely a huge fine to pay. The intention is getting a 4th mobile carrier out of this, and I'd personally rather it be dish if they get their darned network deployed.
They actually have plenty of spectrum of their own, and have it spec'd for largely unpaired use on the AWS side, so with NR-SA they could have some pretty phenomenal speeds. If they ever. Freaking. Deploy. Their. Network.
Yeah have your see what the future holds. If they build out network but do it without buying boost that is a big mistake. They need to have a standout prepaid carrier. TMobile has metro, att cricket and vzw visible. Dish can change the Boost name if they see fit. Yes boost has lost customers, but that is likely do to running off sprint and not having access to tmo where sprint doesn't have coverage and lack of VOLTE. Running off TMO network for the first 7 years and if dish can have more coverage by that time when sprint did that will help also.

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems that Dish will close the Boost transaction on July 1st:

The company did not officially close the purchase, nor did it provide any of the parameters of the pending deal, including how many customers might be involved or the final price.

But the company's announcement – made via an SEC filing – represents Dish's intention to enter the wireless industry, first as an MVNO of T-Mobile and, potentially, as a nationwide 5G network operator.

It appears that the Department of Justice had to step in during the negotiations between T-Mobile and Dish to push the transaction forward. "On June 17, 2020, the Department of Justice (the 'DOJ') determined that T-Mobile has complied with the requirement in the final judgment entered by a federal district court in Washington, D.C. on April 1, 2020 (the 'Final Judgment') to provide Dish the ability to cross-provision any new or existing customer of the prepaid business with a compatible handset onto the T-Mobile network," T-Mobile wrote in its own SEC filing on the matter. "As a result, we believe all conditions to closing under the Asset Purchase Agreement (other than those conditions that can only be satisfied at closing) have been satisfied and, subject to the satisfaction of the conditions that must be satisfied at closing, the closing of the Prepaid Business Sale will occur on July 1, 2020."

https://www.lightreading.com/5g/dish-said-it-will-buy-t-mobiles-boost-on-july-1/d/d-id/761784?

 

All of you can breathe now 😅!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, bigsnake49 said:

It seems that Dish will close the Boost transaction on July 1st:

The company did not officially close the purchase, nor did it provide any of the parameters of the pending deal, including how many customers might be involved or the final price.

But the company's announcement – made via an SEC filing – represents Dish's intention to enter the wireless industry, first as an MVNO of T-Mobile and, potentially, as a nationwide 5G network operator.

It appears that the Department of Justice had to step in during the negotiations between T-Mobile and Dish to push the transaction forward. "On June 17, 2020, the Department of Justice (the 'DOJ') determined that T-Mobile has complied with the requirement in the final judgment entered by a federal district court in Washington, D.C. on April 1, 2020 (the 'Final Judgment') to provide Dish the ability to cross-provision any new or existing customer of the prepaid business with a compatible handset onto the T-Mobile network," T-Mobile wrote in its own SEC filing on the matter. "As a result, we believe all conditions to closing under the Asset Purchase Agreement (other than those conditions that can only be satisfied at closing) have been satisfied and, subject to the satisfaction of the conditions that must be satisfied at closing, the closing of the Prepaid Business Sale will occur on July 1, 2020."

https://www.lightreading.com/5g/dish-said-it-will-buy-t-mobiles-boost-on-july-1/d/d-id/761784?

 

All of you can breathe now 😅!

Excellent.  Price of DISH stock now significantly up: https://seekingalpha.com/symbol/DISH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, bigsnake49 said:

It seems that Dish will close the Boost transaction on July 1st:

The company did not officially close the purchase, nor did it provide any of the parameters of the pending deal, including how many customers might be involved or the final price.

But the company's announcement – made via an SEC filing – represents Dish's intention to enter the wireless industry, first as an MVNO of T-Mobile and, potentially, as a nationwide 5G network operator.

It appears that the Department of Justice had to step in during the negotiations between T-Mobile and Dish to push the transaction forward. "On June 17, 2020, the Department of Justice (the 'DOJ') determined that T-Mobile has complied with the requirement in the final judgment entered by a federal district court in Washington, D.C. on April 1, 2020 (the 'Final Judgment') to provide Dish the ability to cross-provision any new or existing customer of the prepaid business with a compatible handset onto the T-Mobile network," T-Mobile wrote in its own SEC filing on the matter. "As a result, we believe all conditions to closing under the Asset Purchase Agreement (other than those conditions that can only be satisfied at closing) have been satisfied and, subject to the satisfaction of the conditions that must be satisfied at closing, the closing of the Prepaid Business Sale will occur on July 1, 2020."

https://www.lightreading.com/5g/dish-said-it-will-buy-t-mobiles-boost-on-july-1/d/d-id/761784?

 

All of you can breathe now 😅!

I knew that DISH would not walk away.  It was a bluff.  They pretty much were committed.  But Charlie couldn't pass up an opportunity to turn the screws and try to renegotiate a better deal thinking he may have an upper hand.  I don't believe the Feds would have ever reversed the Sprint/Tmo transaction.  Too far gone.  And Tmo did all the right things in good faith.  It just could have left DISH in the cold.  And that's what I meant by 'blow up in their faces" for the member who asked the question up the thread.

Robert

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't even think this was a big deal.  There was no required purchase needed until July 1st.  Analysts "predicted" it would be earlier, they were wrong so "OMG. DISH IS DOING WHAT DISH DOES".  If the prediction was closing on July 1st, like the agreement states, we'd have less click bate. 

For Dish, I think they have valid concerns with a Boost handoff.  Wasn't until mid June that DOJ confirmed TMobile was compliant. If I was Dish, I wouldn't hold TMobile at their own word that they were complaint so the DOJ stepping in a good thing. Plus in the mean time Dish could argue the value of the Boost business has decreased but I wouldn't expect much room there for them to haggle that. 

 

If I knew Dish was rapidly building out their network I'd put on a line on them just out of curiosity. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cash flow wise Dish may have gotten Boost for nothing.  https://www.fiercewireless.com/operators/dish-to-raise-1b-for-general-corporate-purposes  Boost was the most profitable part of Sprint according to the anti-trust judge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/25/2020 at 1:09 PM, dkyeager said:

Cash flow wise Dish may have gotten Boost for nothing.  https://www.fiercewireless.com/operators/dish-to-raise-1b-for-general-corporate-purposes  Boost was the most profitable part of Sprint according to the anti-trust judge.

Dish might have to settle for lower income from their leases since T-Mobile just signed leases with two other companies:

T-Mobile has applied for instant spectrum leases with Channel 51 License Company and LB License Co. to lease 600 MHz spectrum in a number of major markets, including Houston, Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston, New Orleans, St. Louis, San Francisco, Dallas, Atlanta and Seattle, among others.

Currently, these companies are lending 600 MHz spectrum to T-Mobile to help the carrier boost its network during the Covid-19 pandemic.

The parties have filed their application with the FCC, and if granted, the leases would exist until February 28, 2023.

https://www.fiercewireless.com/operators/t-mobile-strikes-600-mhz-spectrum-leases-8-out-10-top-markets

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, PythonFanPA said:

Yeah it looks like they might be getting serious about deploying their network. A little more detail courtesy of Light Reading:

Importantly, Fujitsu will supply the physical radio hardware that will broadcast 5G signals from atop Dish's cell towers around the US. Dish said in a release that it will use Fujitsu's lowband Tri-Band radio unit (supporting spectrum bands n71, n26 and n29) and midband Dual-Band radio unit (supporting spectrum bands n70 and n66), both of which adhere to open RAN design principles. Dish added that the radios would support passive MIMO. 

https://www.lightreading.com/5g/dishs-5g-radios-to-come-from-japans-fujitsu/d/d-id/762069?

 

 
 

 

Edited by bigsnake49
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, there goes nothing 😂.

All jokes aside, I am very happy that they took the first step towards becoming the fourth carrier.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wonder how they will move on their network.  If they deployed it like TMobile is deloying 600MHz, I'd put a line on them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, red_dog007 said:

Wonder how they will move on their network.  If they deployed it like TMobile is deloying 600MHz, I'd put a line on them. 

If I had to guess, they'll deploy just enough to meet their federally mandated requirements (70% of the US population within ~3 years), based on where the concentration of their Boost Mobile customer usage is. They've got a sweetheart roaming/MVNO agreement with T-Mobile for seven years so there will be a ton of places it won't make sense to build out. They'll deploy with 600 MHz in those areas first, since that'll be the quickest way to satisfy the buildout requirements...plus 700 downlink. AWS deployments will probably start with the same cell sites, but i expect there'll be AWS-only sites in cities as that's one fewer set of radios to set up and I'm convinced Dish will build this network as cheaply as they possibly can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, iansltx said:

If I had to guess, they'll deploy just enough to meet their federally mandated requirements (70% of the US population within ~3 years), based on where the concentration of their Boost Mobile customer usage is. They've got a sweetheart roaming/MVNO agreement with T-Mobile for seven years so there will be a ton of places it won't make sense to build out. They'll deploy with 600 MHz in those areas first, since that'll be the quickest way to satisfy the buildout requirements...plus 700 downlink. AWS deployments will probably start with the same cell sites, but i expect there'll be AWS-only sites in cities as that's one fewer set of radios to set up and I'm convinced Dish will build this network as cheaply as they possibly can.

They have ordered triband n71, n26 and n29 low frequency RRUs and dual band n70 and n66. Something tells me that they will deploy the lower band first and then deploy enough of the midband RRUs to meet the deployment requirements. Of course I expect them to deploy first in the urban areas then suburban. Overall I think they will live within their means as far as deployment, shielded by the roaming agreement with t-mobile. 

For me the interesting event will happen in 3 years when T-Mobile's leases with other holders of 600Mhz spectrum expire. Will we see a bidding war between T-Mobile and Dish for those leases?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, bigsnake49 said:

They have ordered triband n71, n26 and n29 low frequency RRUs and dual band n70 and n66. Something tells me that they will deploy the lower band first and then deploy enough of the midband RRUs to meet the deployment requirements. Of course I expect them to deploy first in the urban areas then suburban. Overall I think they will live within their means as far as deployment, shielded by the roaming agreement with t-mobile. 

For me the interesting event will happen in 3 years when T-Mobile's leases with other holders of 600Mhz spectrum expire. Will we see a bidding war between T-Mobile and Dish for those leases?

They won't have to deploy midband RRUs to meet deployment requirements since 600/700/800 travels further, and the tech is the same for both. Midband will be solely a capacity play, since that'll get them 40 MHz of downlink and 15 MHz of uplink in most areas (see https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/wake-doj-deal-where-dish-s-spectrum-and-how-much-does-it-have). That's on top of low-band, which after n26 comes online will be 20x15 (albeit split over three different bands) at least, and a symmetric amount more in some markets. With a comparatively minuscule customer count, the network should fly with that amount of spectrum.

My guess is that in three years Dish won't have touched 30% of the US population, so T-Mobile will be able to renew 600 licenses in those areas uncontested, including in plenty of rural areas, for another three years. For the remaining 70% of the US population (which will be a pretty small % of territory, so a rather small number of licenses), there'll be areas where Dish will try to squeak by with a low-band-only build, and *those* are the areas they'll be compete more on for spectrum leasing. For areas where there's enough traffic to build out mid-band, Dish may or may not need the extra 600...and those are probably the same areas T-Mobile will have a blanket of n41...so competition for that spectrum may be a bit more tepid, with the winner being whoever has more 600 sites lit since site density will determine capacity.

One interesting thing to note here: Boost already sells a phone that's (partially) compatible with Dish's upcoming network: the S20 (n66 and n71). In pure dollar terms, they're subsidizing that phone the most our of their entire lineup, selling it at $720. Still spendy, but at least they'll have *some* phones in the field that support the new network, and as time goes on they'll be able to sell the S20 for cheaper. Assuming they're okay with folks dropping down to T-Mobile LTE for voice since the X55 modem can't do VoNR, and sitting primarily on n71 because the phone can't aggregate NR-NR.

It's probably worthwhile for them to get a variant of the S20 recertified with n70, as that's adjacent to bands 66 and 25 so radio performance should still be fine. That would give the S20 access to their full native mid-band network on a phone most likely to be picked up by the folks who'd use the most data on their network.

With all that said, I would *not* expect Dish to pick up any more 5G phones until they're able to get one with an X60 or equivalent modem; having a network spread across slices of five bands from the get-go means NR-NR aggregation is important, and it'll take VoNR to keep phones from dropping down to roaming on TMo to make phone calls. So I don't expect Boost will get the A51 5G or A71 5G...better to sell LTE-only phones and then introduce phones with better chipsets later, to avoid heavily subsidizing phones twice.

Then, once you've got a $400 phone with VoNR, sell bundle it with two months of unlimited-everything service and you're off to the races. I figure we'll be at that point by this time next year, at which point I'll probably pick that phone up to see what Dish's network is like...as long as they allow tethering at full speed.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dish has ~8 million customers.  I don't expect Dish to have the growth that TMobile has had.  Lets say Dish is lucky to add an average of 1M customers a year for 5 years.  That puts them only at 13M customers. Even if they were TMobile like in the ability to add at least 1M new customers a quarter, in 5 years that is 20M + 8M, so 28M.

Whatever network they build I think it'll focus very much just in the big cities where they have the most customers right now and plan to push sales the most. It doesn't make sense for them to build a nationwide network and use all their bands.  It doesn't even really make sense to build a low-band network to hit their 70% pop coverage.

I could see Dish coming to an agreement with TMobile to broadcast their spectrum.   Like why would they need to cover 70% pop if they have few customers. Also I could see if Dish continues forward in good faith and the deadlines are near that the FCC could be willing to come to some form of agreement with Dish to not penalize them if they are unable to get TMobile to host use their spectrum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/4/2020 at 12:47 PM, bigsnake49 said:

For me the interesting event will happen in 3 years when T-Mobile's leases with other holders of 600Mhz spectrum expire. Will we see a bidding war between T-Mobile and Dish for those leases?

If there is a purchase option on the current T-Mobile leases, then there probably won't be much of a bidding war.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/4/2020 at 6:13 PM, iansltx said:

since the X55 modem can't do VoNR

https://www.t-mobile.com/news/network/tmobile-achieves-significant-5g-firsts

The X55 modem can do VoNR (Done on T-Mobile with a OnePlus 8). I would expect T-Mobile to add VoNR via software update to all X55 phones once they have SA and VoNR ready on the network side.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • large.unreadcontent.png.6ef00db54e758d06

  • gallery_1_23_9202.png

  • Posts

    • T-Mobile is pretty dense in the Louisville metro area, close to matching AT&T as far as macro sites go in most parts of town, both blow Verizon and Sprint out of the water here. This is also a pretty mature B71 & N71 area. When I previously had T-Mobile service back around 2014 they were horrendous here, but they did a ton a work between then and when I switched back in April of this year. What I hope they focus on here is rural coverage, as they are pretty even with what Sprint had and both lag far behind AT&T and Verizon in rural coverage here. 
    • Unfortunately I think we are headed towards option one. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    • I have the A71 now.  How do I set screen time out to never? 10 minutes is currently the longest setting displayed. My past LG phones had never as an option.
    • The Sprint Customers surely have a lot of value.  Nobody would allow them to fade away.  Something will be done. The best option is for Shentel to continue somehow with this area.  They built a killer network.  Much much better than any other network in this area.  Things will go downhill real fast if Shentel is out of the picture.   Actually, the Shentel network is so good that the Shentel sites need to be the backbone of the new network.  Add t-mobile spectrum to the Shentel sites.   Shentel is near perfect here and T-Mobile is very very poor.  Shentel can fix that real quick.
    • I've not read the SEC filing lately, so I won't promise I'm 100% correct in case my memory is faulty.  But because these terms are part of the existing affiliate agreement, I would assume that agreement continues to hold until it ends in 2029 (unless renegotiated sooner), including use of the branding and spectrum.  I know nothing about the billing system. - Trip
  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...