Official Tmobile-Sprint merger discussion thread

[Paynefanbro]

They also average about 40MHz of C-band in a bunch of markets nationwide which likely contributes to that number.

'

For example in NYC, between BRS/EBS, C-band, AWS, and PCS they'll have ~250MHz of mid-band spectrum available for 5G. This is in spite of a squatter sitting on ~50MHz of BRS/EBS spectrum here. If we assume that T-Mobile is already working to obtain a long-term lease or acquire that spectrum then they could potentially reach ~300MHz. For comparison Verizon's total mid-band holdings here including AWS, PCS, C-band, and CBRS are 240MHz and AT&T's combined holdings are ~140MHz. Dish has ~60MHz.

1 hour ago, mdob07 said:

Has N2 or N66 been spotted yet?

n66 has definitely been spotted and is even mapped on Cellmapper. I don't think n2/25 has been spotted live yet but we do know that they are actively deploying antennas and radios that are capable of broadcasting it.

[PedroDaGr8]

11 hours ago, mdob07 said:

I can see it if they include N2 and N66 along with N41 in that number. Has N2 or N66 been spotted yet?

I saw a permit for it in rural Washington a few months back. I also believe one or two people have seen n66 on Reddit.

[RedSpark]

23 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

T-Mobile did two news releases today.

1. T‑Mobile Has Most Reliable 5G Network (Again) According to New Report

   1. T-Mobile has been found to have the fastest, largest, and most reliable 5G network in the U.S. according to umlaut. Although I don't disagree with the results, I still think we should take it with a grain of salt since it was commissioned by T-Mobile and it doesn't look like they covered a very large area.

2. A 5G Build Update! And a Look Toward the Future of 5G

   1. T-Mobile now covers 165 million POPs with Ultra-Capacity 5G and 305 million POPs with Nationwide 5G.

   2. Neville also bragged about how they fully expect to maintain their spectrum lead well into the future.

      1. T-Mobile will average 100MHz of mid-band nationwide by year-end covering 200 million people for a total of for 60 billion MHz pops. This is compared to Verizon who plans to cover 100 million people next year and use 60 MHz of C-band to get 6 billion MHz pops. That same math for AT&T with their 40MHz of C-band is 4 billion MHz pops.

      2. In 2023 when the rest of the C-band spectrum becomes available T-Mobile is targeting 300 million people covered with 200MHz of mid-band for 60 billion MHz pops. Verizon says they’ll cover 200 million people with 160MHz, bringing them to 32 billion MHz pops. And AT&T will cover 200 million people with 80MHz of C-band, they’ll be at 16 billion MHz pops. 

Also here's an updated (though still low res) map:

Pretty impressive! Well done.

[Paynefanbro]

T-Mobile is officially showing Ultra-Capacity 5G on their coverage map.

https://www.t-mobile.com/coverage/coverage-map

[swintec]

just as a refresher....what does the phone (galaxy s20+ in my case) and signal check show when connected to 5G ultra capacity?

[mmark27]

29 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

T-Mobile is officially showing Ultra-Capacity 5G on their coverage map.

https://www.t-mobile.com/coverage/coverage-map

oh my, I have some Ultra Capacity right up in my area now! 

[jreuschl]

Users on reddit are saying the N41 areas are greatly exaggerated.

Unfortunately the MVNO map hasn't been updated yet that shows bands and strength per.

[Dkoellerwx]

2 hours ago, swintec said:

just as a refresher....what does the phone (galaxy s20+ in my case) and signal check show when connected to 5G ultra capacity?

Doesn't show anything special. "Ultra capacity" is n41, so generally you'll need to check the engineering screen to see which 5G band you're connected to (n71 or n41). If you're on SA 5G, SCP may show 5G 2500 or something like that.

[Dkoellerwx]

8 minutes ago, jreuschl said:

Users on reddit are saying the N41 areas are greatly exaggerated.

Unfortunately the MVNO map hasn't been updated yet that shows bands and strength per.

It looks pretty right on for Omaha. I actually can get n41 in a slightly larger area than what they show on the map.

[dkyeager]

On 7/27/2021 at 10:29 PM, iansltx said:

So...they'll have areas with >100 MHz? Certainly possible, but would be rather surprising.

In a number of markets TMO effectively controls all 194MHz of band 41. Now I think n41 greater than 100MHz would need 5g CA.

[Trip]

21 hours ago, jreuschl said:

Users on reddit are saying the N41 areas are greatly exaggerated.

Unfortunately the MVNO map hasn't been updated yet that shows bands and strength per.

Wouldn't surprise me, but I will say that the map looks accurate in terms of sites actually operating B41 gear, based on what I've seen.  I was able to use it to add a number of sites I haven't visited yet based on the map.

- Trip

[PedroDaGr8]

On 7/28/2021 at 12:06 PM, jreuschl said:

Users on reddit are saying the N41 areas are greatly exaggerated.

Unfortunately the MVNO map hasn't been updated yet that shows bands and strength per.

Quite accurate if not conservative in the Metro Seattle area. In fact I know of two recent B41/n41 towers that aren't on the map.

[Trip]

Interesting comment in the T-Mobile Q2 Earnings Report yesterday.  https://s24.q4cdn.com/400059132/files/doc_financials/2021/q2/NG_TMUS-06_30_2021-EX-99.1.pdf

Specifically, this part:

• Approximately 80% of Sprint customer traffic is now carried on the T-Mobile network
• One-third of Sprint customers have been moved to the T-Mobile network

Not terribly surprising to me that the customers who use the most data were most anxious to move to T-Mobile, while the majority of customers--who don't use much data--are perfectly happy with the Sprint network as it is.  I'm definitely in that category and in no rush to give up the superior coverage of the Sprint network for the possibly-superior capacity of the T-Mobile network.

(Also, at least in my case, since LG phones are now discontinued, moving to a new T-Mobile phone means extensive phone shopping that I'm not looking forward to, rather than just picking up the latest LG device and being happy.)

After all this time, I still have yet to see any Sprint site conversions that are operating.  I've seen precisely one that has new gear, but still only seems to have Sprint bands running on it (along with 312250).  I don't know what is taking them so long.

- Trip

[Trip]

On 7/30/2021 at 8:23 AM, Trip said:

 I've seen precisely one that has new gear, but still only seems to have Sprint bands running on it (along with 312250).  I don't know what is taking them so long.

- Trip

Just drove by this site again and it's no longer running Band 26. Just Sprint Bands 25 and 41.

- Trip

[iansltx]

To clarify my comment earlier, I'd assume that TMo would want to run 40 MHz T-Mobile B41 on top of 100 MHz n41 at a minimum, so going > 100 MHz on mid-band even on full 194 MHz would only get them another 40 MHz of n41. Maybe 60 due to guard bands, which would require taking Sprint down to zero. Wouldn't make sense to deploy a 20 MHz n41 channel I don't think. Alternative would be dropping from 100 MHz in one channel to have two channels, each with >= 40 MHz capacity. If they did 100+40 n41 plus 2CA T-Mobile B41, they could fit 15-20 MHz of Sprint B41 in, at which point the band is maxed out...and they'd have online as much spectrum for n41 as VZW will have in many areas for n77 in late 2023.

Their statement of 100 MHz mid-band on average by year end has gotta be n41 only, as n77 won't be live 'til late 2023, and I'm 99.9% sure they wouldn't include n2/25/66 on the mid-band side as you're not going to have more than 10x10 there this year, which is less than they have on n71 in a lot of areas. So, not very Ultra Capacity.

Now, their "300MM on Ultra Capacity by YE23" statement? If they can move enough traffic to n71/41 that they can carve out 20x20 of dedicated n2/25/66, with at least 16x16 M-MIMO? That's probably enough to hit 300 Mbps and call it Ultra Capacity. That, or they're counting on massive range improvements on n41 when CA'd with n71, n25, or n66...which, yeah, that might work.

As for the n41 coverage map, it's a bit generous around here. B41 from the same radio makes it to my location, but n41 does not, despite being supposedly covered by it. Checked with Premier Care and none of the sites closer to me are slated for imminent upgrades (though apparently the Sprint rooftop site close to me will be the one that survives rather than the legacy T-Mobile one further north that now has all three carriers on it...so I guess that site will get Dish eventually), so this is flat-out a case over overestimating coverage. I'll go on a walk in a bit to see whether moving the NR carrier down 50 MHz improved coverage any; guessing I'll have to get within 0.75 mi of the site to pick up n41 though.

[Member21]

Just wanted to share my experience so far:

-I'm in Fairfield County, CT and my house is shown on be on the edge of T-Mobile's "5G Ultra Capacity".

-I upgraded my phone from an S7 to a Sprint S21 from Best Buy a few weeks ago.  When Best Buy shipped it, the S21 included a factory installed Sprint SIM card and for some odd reason, they included another Sprint SIM card - stuck to the factory box with my BB order sticker, rather than include a T-Mobile SIM card.

-When I activated the S21 online, the system told me it is highly recommended to install a T-Mobile SIM instead of a Sprint SIM (well, I would have if it was provided by your authorized retailer, lol).

-I finally got around to ordering a T-Mobile SIM, which I installed last night.

-When my S21 was on the Sprint SIM for a few weeks, on the 2nd floor of my house, it would stay on an unspecified 5G (I believe n41 (2500)).  On the 1st floor of my house, 5G would drop and it would bounce between b12 (700) and b2 (1900).  On the Sprint SIM, I never saw it connect to n71 or b71 (600).  I used it on both floors with no issues (just technically slower on the 1st floor with no 5G, but not noticeable).

-Now, with the T-Mobile SIM installed as of last night, I noticed a few things.  First, I am noticing it being able to connect to n71 / b71 (600).  But, with "more choices", it is bouncing around a LOT.  On the 2nd floor, it bounces between n71, b71 (600), n41, b12 (700), b2 (1900).  And on the 1st floor, it does a similar thing, but connects to n71 more so than on the 2nd floor, but it doesn't stay parked on n71.  With all the bouncing around that it does, I seem to loose data service for a brief period while it is transitioning between bands.  For instance, the NY Times and Twitter apps tell me "my device is not connected" and then after about 10 seconds, it works fine to load data.  I never noticed this issue with the Sprint SIM in my S21 for a few weeks.  So, although the T-Mobile SIM seems to make b71 / n71 (600) available (and of course SA 5G), the overall user experience in my case in my house is worse than that of the Sprint SIM.  

The network really aught to keep and leave my S21 on n71 while inside my house.  I'm not sure what to expect in the future as far as real world improvements to the user experience. 

Are they continuing to optimize the network for proper common sense band selection? 

Also, is there anyway to report this to the network team and get actual results? (how do we even contact them these days? the My Sprint app?  T-Mobile Twitter DM?)

[The_Chemist]

4 hours ago, Member21 said:

Just wanted to share my experience so far:

-I'm in Fairfield County, CT and my house is shown on be on the edge of T-Mobile's "5G Ultra Capacity".

-I upgraded my phone from an S7 to a Sprint S21 from Best Buy a few weeks ago.  When Best Buy shipped it, the S21 included a factory installed Sprint SIM card and for some odd reason, they included another Sprint SIM card - stuck to the factory box with my BB order sticker, rather than include a T-Mobile SIM card.

-When I activated the S21 online, the system told me it is highly recommended to install a T-Mobile SIM instead of a Sprint SIM (well, I would have if it was provided by your authorized retailer, lol).

-I finally got around to ordering a T-Mobile SIM, which I installed last night.

-When my S21 was on the Sprint SIM for a few weeks, on the 2nd floor of my house, it would stay on an unspecified 5G (I believe n41 (2500)).  On the 1st floor of my house, 5G would drop and it would bounce between b12 (700) and b2 (1900).  On the Sprint SIM, I never saw it connect to n71 or b71 (600).  I used it on both floors with no issues (just technically slower on the 1st floor with no 5G, but not noticeable).

-Now, with the T-Mobile SIM installed as of last night, I noticed a few things.  First, I am noticing it being able to connect to n71 / b71 (600).  But, with "more choices", it is bouncing around a LOT.  On the 2nd floor, it bounces between n71, b71 (600), n41, b12 (700), b2 (1900).  And on the 1st floor, it does a similar thing, but connects to n71 more so than on the 2nd floor, but it doesn't stay parked on n71.  With all the bouncing around that it does, I seem to loose data service for a brief period while it is transitioning between bands.  For instance, the NY Times and Twitter apps tell me "my device is not connected" and then after about 10 seconds, it works fine to load data.  I never noticed this issue with the Sprint SIM in my S21 for a few weeks.  So, although the T-Mobile SIM seems to make b71 / n71 (600) available (and of course SA 5G), the overall user experience in my case in my house is worse than that of the Sprint SIM.  

The network really aught to keep and leave my S21 on n71 while inside my house.  I'm not sure what to expect in the future as far as real world improvements to the user experience. 

Are they continuing to optimize the network for proper common sense band selection? 

Also, is there anyway to report this to the network team and get actual results? (how do we even contact them these days? the My Sprint app?  T-Mobile Twitter DM?)

That same behavior happens around the Harrisburg PA area as well. The phone (Note 20 Ultra 5G) bounces between bands with moments of "no connection).

I've noticed that other people's T-Mobile phones exhibit the same behavior. It's not only just my phone. 

The strange thing is that when Signal Check Pro shows "no connection" during a VoLTE phone call, the call is not interuped, nor does it drop. 

Hopefully in the next year or so as the Sprint sites are converted over to T-Mobile, the system will be tweaked to have the phone park on a band with a good signal and stay there  instead of the band hopping that currently persists. 

 

[comintel]

6 hours ago, Member21 said:

...it doesn't stay parked on n71.  With all the bouncing around that it does, I seem to loose data service for a brief period while it is transitioning between bands.  For instance, the NY Times and Twitter apps tell me "my device is not connected" and then after about 10 seconds, it works fine to load data.

My S20 also bounces cotinually between bands and no signal, making it useless. 

However, there is a bypass:  Lock it to band 71 with the Samsung Band Selection app.

[BlueAngel]

Yeah these 5G phones like to jump around a lot of makes no sense, can't even lock them to SA the phone will ignore it and jump back on NSA even with them disabled. 

[Member21]

Thanks everyone.  Later in the day, I went to an area of town where all carriers have weak service (a residential area where no one want a cell tower "in my backyard").  With my old S7, I would not even be able to get LTE, it would connect to borderline unusable 3G.  However, with my S21, I now get n71 and n71 only.  Thus, the user experience was way better there since it didn't have a choice.  Hope they fix the issue that occurs elsewhere, which seems to be quite widespread.  When I get some time (and patience), I may try to contact support. 

[iansltx]

Got TNX'd yesterday. On chat to switch back now.

SA n71 is cool, but speeds are pretty low (~30 Mbps) and unnecessary around here. Not seeing SA n41. And losing L-Sprint network access, other than 312-250 sites (which are few and far between here) is a downside. NR CA doesn't exist yet either. I'd rather catch L-Sprint LTE (and 1x) than L-TMo H+ (which is now down to a few Mbps). Only big benefit is theoretically T-Mobile roams on a solid carrier west of here, but I can just use a different (VZW/AT&T) SIM for that.

Biggest downside though is that T-Mobile *still* haven't fixed the 1.5 Mbps streaming cap on TNX'd accounts. So I either VPN in (Cloudflare Warp+ works, but not while tethered) or I get heavily capped video throughput after an initial burst of speed.

Of note, if you force SA (which *does* work in Samsung Band Selector; forcing NR 71 only gets you on SA n71) you can attempt to make calls, and they'll ring on the other end, but the call will fail after a half-second or so without ringing on your side. So VoNR definitely isn't there.

Did some testing last night and the n41 site nearest me reaches about 0.6 mi on n41 (at which point I get 350-375 Mbps on 100 MHz). B41 LTE reaches a little over a mile, including indoors.

EDIT: ...and switch back to TNA is complete. Took a bit for my phone to get the network update that prioritized T-Mobile, but it's there now, and includes 5G just like I had 48 hours ago.

[swintec]

11 hours ago, iansltx said:

 if you force SA (which *does* work in Samsung Band Selector; forcing NR 71 only gets you on SA n71) you can attempt to make calls, and they'll ring on the other end, but the call will fail after a half-second or so without ringing on your side. So VoNR definitely isn't there

Interesting this doesnt work for you.  ive been able to lock to just n71 and make calls just fine and have been able to since I TNXed back in the early spring.  quality is sometimes poor since there is supposedly no QoS but its VoNR none the less.

[swintec]

On 7/31/2021 at 9:18 PM, comintel said:

My S20 also bounces cotinually between bands and no signal, making it useless.

This infuriates me to no end, i dont necessarily have no signal but it jumps on bands that are absolutely useless and stays there.  why hold a -121 signal reading on band 2 with 5G when n71 is there? Also goes through fits of seemingly no data access despite the phone showing no problems (usually when on n71).

[The_Chemist]

20 minutes ago, swintec said:

This infuriates me to no end, i dont necessarily have no signal but it jumps on bands that are absolutely useless and stays there.  why hold a -121 signal reading on band 2 with 5G when n71 is there? Also goes through fits of seemingly no data access despite the phone showing no problems (usually when on n71).

I'm hoping that they just don't have the logic programmed into the base stations yet. 

I have the same situation in the Harrisburg PA area. I can hold onto a -123 dBm signal on band 25 or band 2 when a nice -98 dBm signal is available on band 71 or n71. Makes absolutely no sense.

 I do have the momentary "No Signal" lapse between locking onto the next band though. That appears to be more widespread than I thought...

[comintel]

2 hours ago, swintec said:

This infuriates me to no end, i dont necessarily have no signal but it jumps on bands that are absolutely useless and stays there.  why hold a -121 signal reading on band 2 with 5G when n71 is there? Also goes through fits of seemingly no data access despite the phone showing no problems (usually when on n71).

Yes I get the no data access every few minutes as it hops around.

Even though it has been that way for many months, I suspect it must be some sort of temporary /emergency patch for something or other.  I assume it is targeted for eventual fix but waiting on other planned changes.  I am sure they must know all about it.

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by comintel