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You really have to hand it to the T-Mobile network and engineering team since the merger. They're extremely proficient at network upgrades.

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And what will this all mean for S4GRU?  We are in a wait and see mode before we decide how to adapt.  Until then, we will be here every day with you all, plotting our wireless destiny. Robert

Alright.  There may not be a Sprint anymore, but the same rules apply.  Just incessant complaining about the old Sprint is getting old.  People will start checking out because it just will become a co

And this is the truth that many of us are going to learn.  T-Mobile is not perfect everywhere.  They have some markets where they have some real bad towers here and there.  And there are some entire m

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2 hours ago, RedSpark said:

You really have to hand it to the T-Mobile network and engineering team since the merger. They're extremely proficient at network upgrades.

I'm very curious what their metric is for including cities in this list.  Woodinville, Bothell, Kirkland, and Redmond all have n41  towers but aren't listed. Meanwhile, Monroe has a single n41 tower and is listed. 

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1 minute ago, BlueAngel said:

I literally have to drive to the bad areas to experience n41, wish they would hurry up in my neighborhood.

I hate to say it but blame your NIMBY neighbors. Permits are a lot easier/quicker in bad areas because there is less objection. 

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3 hours ago, PedroDaGr8 said:

I hate to say it but blame your NIMBY neighbors. Permits are a lot easier/quicker in bad areas because there is less objection. 

That sounds about right lol.

3 hours ago, belusnecropolis said:

Imagine getting jacked doing a speedtest

It's a possibility lol.

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7 hours ago, PedroDaGr8 said:

I hate to say it but blame your NIMBY neighbors. Permits are a lot easier/quicker in bad areas because there is less objection. 

Or maybe the demand for data is heavier in these areas, so priority is given. Let's not forget that in low income areas, cellphone data is the only source of internet access for many households.

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meh still haven't figured out wth they have done out here.. but its not stable i guess... in and out, voice issues..

And I havent really seen anyone up on towers. (I drive around A LOT for my work) But I wish they would hurry up, its affecting things with work (irritating when customers go to VM or to a random other number)  Plus people on my account complaining to me..

It seems to be those of us with the S20s.... And trying to work through CS is a joke... Sprint customer on Tmo network, and yet no one wants to take accountability for whats screwing up.. I think THAT irritates me the most... "Well you're a sprint cutomer, so you need to deal with them"  me...."its a freaking TMO network problem, if I had problems with billing or IF i was on the sprint network, I would deal with them"

 

Plus I am sure no one wants to admit there might be an issue with the S20s and band switching.....

 

I knew there would be bumps.. but their CS handling of things, suck

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10 hours ago, floorguy said:

meh still haven't figured out wth they have done out here.. but its not stable i guess... in and out, voice issues..

And I havent really seen anyone up on towers. (I drive around A LOT for my work) But I wish they would hurry up, its affecting things with work (irritating when customers go to VM or to a random other number)  Plus people on my account complaining to me..

It seems to be those of us with the S20s.... And trying to work through CS is a joke... Sprint customer on Tmo network, and yet no one wants to take accountability for whats screwing up.. I think THAT irritates me the most... "Well you're a sprint cutomer, so you need to deal with them"  me...."its a freaking TMO network problem, if I had problems with billing or IF i was on the sprint network, I would deal with them"

 

Plus I am sure no one wants to admit there might be an issue with the S20s and band switching.....

 

I knew there would be bumps.. but their CS handling of things, suck

I have noticed thing have improved greatly for me when it comes to band switching. 

From T-Mobile to my Magic Box when I get home seems to be the only hiccup. It will hang on B12 for a long-ish time before it finally decides to connect to B41 on the MB.  The MB also uses a different PLMN than the macro site.  The switching to the macro from the MB seems to be fine, then from Sprint to T-Mobile bands seems fine.  I wonder if they just don't have the towers re-configured the same in your area yet?

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1 hour ago, jporter12 said:

I have noticed thing have improved greatly for me when it comes to band switching. 

From T-Mobile to my Magic Box when I get home seems to be the only hiccup. It will hang on B12 for a long-ish time before it finally decides to connect to B41 on the MB.  The MB also uses a different PLMN than the macro site.  The switching to the macro from the MB seems to be fine, then from Sprint to T-Mobile bands seems fine.  I wonder if they just don't have the towers re-configured the same in your area yet?

Could be.. BUT I never connect to a sprint tower..NEVER... it hangs on its own bands, Band 2 mostly.. when it toggles to that, that's when I notice the data hang, and I have to drive a few miles (probably bouncing multiple towers in that time) before it decides to come back.. It really is an odd thing.. Because back in may when I bought the phones.. They were smoking fast... Until about mid August

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4 minutes ago, alphaalphagamma said:

What plmn is your mb using?

311-490

It switches to 312-530 or 312-250 when it goes to a macro.  I think I've seen both from the same tower, IIRC.

 

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1 hour ago, floorguy said:

Could be.. BUT I never connect to a sprint tower..NEVER... it hangs on its own bands, Band 2 mostly.. when it toggles to that, that's when I notice the data hang, and I have to drive a few miles (probably bouncing multiple towers in that time) before it decides to come back.. It really is an odd thing.. Because back in may when I bought the phones.. They were smoking fast... Until about mid August

My TNX'ed S20 will NEVER connect to any of numerous known strong Sprint signals here either, even when it gets NO signal which is frequent (the best it gets is weak band 2 and 4).  It says the sim forbids the connection if I try and force it through band selection.

And I believe that is exactly what is happening.

I can even see it getting full bars to my my Magic box, but it will not use the connection.  Because the sim will not let it for a non-TMobile branded S20.

After studying many threads on  reddit, I understand this is a bug in all non-iPhone non-TMobile branded S20's and some other Androids as well.  The sim looks and sees that the phone is non-Mobile branded, and if so, refuses to connect to any Sprint PLMN.  It should treat a Sprint-branded S20 as ok, but does not.

This is not restricted to the TNX context but appears for all TMobile users with non-Sprint-branded Androids. (Actually areas with additional unified PLMN's may be ok, but we do not have any unified PLMN's here.)

If anyone reading this has access to searching internal bug databases, could you possibly search and see if this is a known problem?

Moreover, there is a known bypass reported at least in the broader non-TNX context:.  Namely, put the sim in an iPhone for a few hours.   Then the sim "learns" to be able to connect to Sprint PLMN's, and retains this ability even when put back in the Android.

Edited by comintel
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https://imgur.com/a/PUjUlff

This tower was upgraded in my area and was what spawned my earlier post about towers without B71. A new rack was installed that still had the old panels on it but the 41 panel added. Came back tonight and B2 and NSA 5G N41 were live and the old panels were gone and no B71 panels added.

Couldn't get SA N41 or B41 LTE from it.

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4 hours ago, bmoses said:

https://imgur.com/a/PUjUlff

This tower was upgraded in my area and was what spawned my earlier post about towers without B71. A new rack was installed that still had the old panels on it but the 41 panel added. Came back tonight and B2 and NSA 5G N41 were live and the old panels were gone and no B71 panels added.

Couldn't get SA N41 or B41 LTE from it.

While most towers are near instant,  one local tower took two to three weeks to turn on B41 and over a month to turn on n41.

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20 hours ago, comintel said:

My TNX'ed S20 will NEVER connect to any of numerous known strong Sprint signals here either, even when it gets NO signal which is frequent (the best it gets is weak band 2 and 4).  It says the sim forbids the connection if I try and force it through band selection.

And I believe that is exactly what is happening.

I can even see it getting full bars to my my Magic box, but it will not use the connection.  Because the sim will not let it for a non-TMobile branded S20.

After studying many threads on  reddit, I understand this is a bug in all non-iPhone non-TMobile branded S20's and some other Androids as well.  The sim looks and sees that the phone is non-Mobile branded, and if so, refuses to connect to any Sprint PLMN.  It should treat a Sprint-branded S20 as ok, but does not.

This is not restricted to the TNX context but appears for all TMobile users with non-Sprint-branded Androids. (Actually areas with additional unified PLMN's may be ok, but we do not have any unified PLMN's here.)

If anyone reading this has access to searching internal bug databases, could you possibly search and see if this is a known problem?

Moreover, there is a known bypass reported at least in the broader non-TNX context:.  Namely, put the sim in an iPhone for a few hours.   Then the sim "learns" to be able to connect to Sprint PLMN's, and retains this ability even when put back in the Android.

ok, i understood most of that hahaha..

SO even though i bought it back in May (so should be a sprint branded S20, and sprint SIM) it wont let it hit the towers??  I found that with the band selector set to the sprint bands, it performed FAR worse, then my native note 8..


HUMMMMMMMM

 

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7 hours ago, floorguy said:

ok, i understood most of that hahaha..

SO even though i bought it back in May (so should be a sprint branded S20, and sprint SIM) it wont let it hit the towers??  I found that with the band selector set to the sprint bands, it performed FAR worse, then my native note 8..


HUMMMMMMMM

 

Check the band it actually connects to using SignalCheck.   I think you may find it is completely avoiding the Sprint signals, and is connecting to a distant TMobile tower on band 2 or TMobile band 41 (not Sprint band 41) instead.  That is what I observe and would explain why the signal is so weak.

However I think that this is just a technical restriction that was necessary in their initial design and there is room for an expectation that they will be able to fix this soon - possibly very soon as I think some changes are coming.

I think the reason for some of this is that while you are on TMobile, they are probably actually maintaining a dummy login of your IMEI on Sprint under the covers.  Therefore they cannot allow you back onto Sprint a second time to avoid your IMEI being present twice on the network.  I  think I see indications that they will be able to lift this problem with a revised design.

Edited by comintel
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In order to get my phone to switch back to sprint towers, I went close to a known sprint towers then performed a "profile update" on the phone and it's been on sprint signal since

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1 hour ago, comintel said:

Check the band it actually connects to using SignalCheck.   I think you may find it is completely avoiding the Sprint signals, and is connecting to a distant TMobile tower on band 2 or TMobile band 41 (not Sprint band 41) instead.  That is what I observe and would explain why the signal is so weak.

However I think that this is just a technical restriction that was necessary in their initial design and there is room for an expectation that they will be able to fix this soon - possibly very soon as I think some changes are coming.

I think the reason for some of this is that while you are on TMobile, they are probably actually maintaining a dummy login of your IMEI on Sprint under the covers.  Therefore they cannot allow you back onto Sprint a second time to avoid your IMEI being present twice on the network.  I  think I see indications that they will be able to lift this problem with a revised design.

Well let's hope soon.. because THIS is BS (I so want to say the word, but they will get mad. Notice the SCP STRENGTHS..  I can't even do a song search on spotify

 

Screenshot_20201030-134209_Speedtest.jpg

Screenshot_20201030-175811_Speedtest.jpg

Screenshot_20201030-180553_Speedtest.jpg

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3 hours ago, floorguy said:

Well let's hope soon.. because THIS is BS (I so want to say the word, but they will get mad. Notice the SCP STRENGTHS..  I can't even do a song search on spotify

 

If you get tired of waiting, I believe that tech support can remove TMobile Network Access on request now, even though the original plan was that that would not be possible.  It would entail loss of 5G access though.

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On 10/28/2020 at 10:54 PM, floorguy said:

meh still haven't figured out wth they have done out here.. but its not stable i guess... in and out, voice issues..

And I havent really seen anyone up on towers. (I drive around A LOT for my work) But I wish they would hurry up, its affecting things with work (irritating when customers go to VM or to a random other number)  Plus people on my account complaining to me..

It seems to be those of us with the S20s.... And trying to work through CS is a joke... Sprint customer on Tmo network, and yet no one wants to take accountability for whats screwing up.. I think THAT irritates me the most... "Well you're a sprint cutomer, so you need to deal with them"  me...."its a freaking TMO network problem, if I had problems with billing or IF i was on the sprint network, I would deal with them"

 

Plus I am sure no one wants to admit there might be an issue with the S20s and band switching.....

 

I knew there would be bumps.. but their CS handling of things, suck

This band switching is happening in my home too. Pixel 2 and an iphone X. Neither will connect to Sprint bands anymore, including our Magic Box at home.

Customer Service is helpless

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2 hours ago, DurhamHusker said:

This band switching is happening in my home too. Pixel 2 and an iphone X. Neither will connect to Sprint bands anymore, including our Magic Box at home.

Customer Service is helpless

Assuming you know that the Sprint bands are still ok there, and assuming also that they have put you on TMobile Network Access, you can ask them to remove SOC ROAMAHOME and add SOC BARRAH on those lines and that will put you back on Sprint's network. If you mention these terms they will recognize them and easily escalate the call to the TMobile Network Access queue where they know how to do this.

It could alternatively be possible that the Sprint coverage in your area is just being cut back, but this seems less likely.

Edited by comintel
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7 hours ago, gr8nuguy said:

In order to get my phone to switch back to sprint towers, I went close to a known sprint towers then performed a "profile update" on the phone and it's been on sprint signal since

I believe that can work for TNA (that is, if you are still using a Sprint sim) but not for TNX (that is, if you are now using a TMobile sim), unless they have the new unified PLMN's in your area. .

Edited by comintel
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A few observations about T-Mobile's network over the past few weeks.

1) It looks like T-Mobile is making some type of change to the software configuration of the 600/700 panels, even if only one of 600 or 700 is actually deployed on them, such that each are getting new GCIs separate from the existing values.  It seems to be happening in batches, as I've seen sites changing gradually over the past several weeks while passing through the same areas. 

As it stands now, some sites have up to six or seven (!) GCIs, the original for PCS, a slightly newer one for AWS, then a brand new one for 600/700, and three or four additional brand new ones (one per sector) for 2.5 GHz.  It's a bit excessive, and backs up my opinion about the T-Mobile network being a trainwreck as far as tracking goes.  On top of that, none of the PCIs match across bands, except that in the DC area at least, the 2.5 GHz PCIs match the AWS ones.  (In Richmond, I've noticed, that is not the case, and the 2.5 GHz ones are a fifth, separate set of PCIs.)

More amusingly, what this means is that sites that lack any bands except 600/700 are changing GCIs entirely, with the old GCI nowhere to be found.  So all the sites in Charlotte County VA, for example, got new GCIs entirely as none of them have any bands beyond 600/700.

The good news is that the PCIs are not being changed when the GCIs change, so as long as the sites have been previously identified, it's relatively straight-forward to figure out the new GCIs.

2) Apparently it is now time for 2.5 GHz to roll out in this area (Alexandria, VA).  Two months ago, there were like four sites immediately surrounding me with 2.5 GHz on them, and very little work had been occurring.  Now there's closer to a dozen, with at least a half-dozen more that are built but not yet operational.  It took a while for them to get started here, but wow are they on a roll now.  None of the power line sites seem to have been touched yet, but that's not a surprise.

3) Sprint keep sites seem to be less common than I would have thought.  I've tracked the number of 312250 PLMN sites and I count 10 so far.  One was a site I did not expect, while the others were expected or, at least, unsurprising after plotting on a map.  I've specifically driven up to three more I did expect to be kept which either are not keep sites or have not yet added 312250; I don't know if they're still rolling it out or not to know the answer with certainty.  In all three cases, I suspect outdoor coverage would be okay without them, but I'm less sure about indoor coverage, and in at least one case, Sprint is the only carrier at that site.  (312250 is not yet deployed in the Shentel region, where I would expect to see many more.)

- Trip

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