Official Tmobile-Sprint merger discussion thread

[RedSpark]

2 hours ago, utiz4321 said:

First, you are only looking at the cost side of ATT LTE roll out and not how long ATT thought it would take to get a return on their investment. 

Second, I was against AT&T buying Mobile and called the DOJ shooting it down.

 

Third, anyone that knows the spectrum holdings, balance sheets, the last five years of these companies history and their network performance compared to the big two can see the obvious benifits to the consumers. The benefit to the consumer was no where near as obvious with a ATT and tmobile merger. That is one of the main reason ATT hammered home the dual LTE expansion, it was the only comsumer benifit they could come up with. 

What’s the necessary ROI on a $39 Billion expenditure to warrant it vs a Capital Spend of $3.8 Billion to accomplish the same, which they were clearly capable of doing?

Fair enough, I was against the AT&T merger too... and I’m against this one for the same reasons. We shouldn’t trade short term synergies for long term market consolidation, which will for the modern era, be irreversible.

I just don’t see the benefits here. Sprint could accomplish this on its own, especially now that more 2.5 GHz Spectrum is going to be available: https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/ebs-portions-2-5-ghz-band-headed-for-big-update-at-fcc.

A merger shouldn’t be an escape path for Masa to bail and leave the market more consolidated than when he came in.

Edited April 24, 2018 by RedSpark
Added link

[dro1984]

But I think that's just it.... "Sprint "COULD" accomplish this on it own".    Maybe.  Not if the cash is tight.   Any little thing, Sprint,  stops network update/upgrades and restarts this merger talk.    How many times can you do this before you frustrate everyone.    I personally need a new phone but do not want to buy until this is all ironed out.   I'm one of the people that buys and keeps their phone for a long time.   If this is a go... I have an cheaper GSM / T-mob/AT&T phone that will work until the merger is done, my high end CDMA / LTE phone is old and needs to be retired.   I would rather buy a High end GSM/LTE phone than another CDMA/LTE phone if this is really happening.  

[RedSpark]

47 minutes ago, dro1984 said:

But I think that's just it.... "Sprint "COULD" accomplish this on it own".    Maybe.  Not if the cash is tight.   Any little thing, Sprint,  stops network update/upgrades and restarts this merger talk.    How many times can you do this before you frustrate everyone.    I personally need a new phone but do not want to buy until this is all ironed out.   I'm one of the people that buys and keeps their phone for a long time.   If this is a go... I have an cheaper GSM / T-mob/AT&T phone that will work until the merger is done, my high end CDMA / LTE phone is old and needs to be retired.   I would rather buy a High end GSM/LTE phone than another CDMA/LTE phone if this is really happening.  

From everything I’ve heard, the spigot at Sprint is finally open. There’s no indication I’ve been given that any network work has been halted or delayed. I’ve heard from a number of Sprint site folks that they’re super busy right now and that this is what they’ve been waiting for.

I don’t think it you should hold out for a new phone based on the possibility of a merger happening. Any merger, if it did actually happen, would require a substantial amount of time to fully integrate the networks, so your device would work for a while.

In terms of device longevity and carrier compatibility, nothing compares to the Unlocked iPhone in my opinion. Sure it doesn’t have HPUE yet, but I’ll bet the next one coming this year does. Or, grab yourself a Google Pixel, which is about as close as you can get to the iPhone in terms of carrier compatibility. The Samsung S8/S8+ now has the universal profile too. Perhaps that will make its way to the S9.

You can also trade-in your device to offset any costs of a new one due to a merger. Just my thoughts.

[greenbastard]

54 minutes ago, RedSpark said:

From everything I’ve heard, the spigot at Sprint is finally open. There’s no indication I’ve been given that any network work has been halted or delayed. 

Has anyone spotted any massive mimo equipment in Los Angeles, Chicago, or Dallas yet? 

[dro1984]

1 hour ago, RedSpark said:

From everything I’ve heard, the spigot at Sprint is finally open. There’s no indication I’ve been given that any network work has been halted or delayed. I’ve heard from a number of Sprint site folks that they’re super busy right now and that this is what they’ve been waiting for.

I don’t think it you should hold out for a new phone based on the possibility of a merger happening. Any merger, if it did actually happen, would require a substantial amount of time to fully integrate the networks, so your device would work for a while.

In terms of device longevity and carrier compatibility, nothing compares to the Unlocked iPhone in my opinion. Sure it doesn’t have HPUE yet, but I’ll bet the next one coming this year does. Or, grab yourself a Google Pixel, which is about as close as you can get to the iPhone in terms of carrier compatibility. The Samsung S8/S8+ now has the universal profile too. Perhaps that will make its way to the S9.

You can also trade-in your device to offset any costs of a new one due to a merger. Just my thoughts.

Don't you think though, that if the merger was green lighted, all they have to do is open up the network to allow Sprint on their LTE?  Obviously the voicecall GSM part would still be limiting, but... oh wait... don't they have voice over LTE and we don't?   

[RedSpark]

10 minutes ago, dro1984 said:

Don't you think though, that if the merger was green lighted, all they have to do is open up the network to allow Sprint on their LTE?  Obviously the voicecall GSM part would still be limiting, but... oh wait... don't they have voice over LTE and we don't?   

I think that any network integration would take a substantial amount of time.

And, if you get a device (iPhone, Pixel, etc.) which is compatible on both Sprint and T-Mobile, you won’t be left behind.

[danlodish345]

1 hour ago, RedSpark said:

I think that any network integration would take a substantial amount of time.

And, if you get a device (iPhone, Pixel, etc.) which is compatible on both Sprint and T-Mobile, you won’t be left behind.

since T-Mobile is getting investigated i doubt the merger will happen....

[utiz4321]

7 hours ago, RedSpark said:

What’s the necessary ROI on a $39 Billion expenditure to warrant it vs a Capital Spend of $3.8 Billion to accomplish the same, which they were clearly capable of doing?

Fair enough, I was against the AT&T merger too... and I’m against this one for the same reasons. We shouldn’t trade short term synergies for long term market consolidation, which will for the modern era, be irreversible.

I just don’t see the benefits here. Sprint could accomplish this on its own, especially now that more 2.5 GHz Spectrum is going to be available: https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/ebs-portions-2-5-ghz-band-headed-for-big-update-at-fcc.

A merger shouldn’t be an escape path for Masa to bail and leave the market more consolidated than when he came in.

A 39 billion dollar investment that brings with it, 120 mhz of spectrum, 50 million subs, 50,000 towers, operation cost savings of 2 billion a year, increased market power, ECT..  probably has a much higher ROI than 3.8 billion to compete over 20 million subs. In fact, I would imagine alot higher. 

You cant simply look at the cost side and not the benefit side to see if an investment makes sense. 

The sprint/t-mobile merger gives the new company all the same advantages without the vast increase in market power. Given the billions and billions of investment that 5g will require I think it is going to happen at some point. 

[danlodish345]

1 hour ago, utiz4321 said:

A 39 billion dollar investment that brings with it, 120 mhz of spectrum, 50 million subs, 50,000 towers, operation cost savings of 2 billion a year, increased market power, ECT..  probably has a much higher ROI than 3.8 billion to compete over 20 million subs. In fact, I would imagine alot higher. 

You cant simply look at the cost side and not the benefit side to see if an investment makes sense. 

The sprint/t-mobile merger gives the new company all the same advantages without the vast increase in market power. Given the billions and billions of investment that 5g will require I think it is going to happen at some point. 

i honestly feel that after the US probe into all four carriers.....the merger is likely to happen.

[Mr.Nuke]

4 hours ago, danlodish345 said:

since T-Mobile is getting investigated i doubt the merger will happen....

 

1 hour ago, danlodish345 said:

i honestly feel that after the US probe into all four carriers.....the merger is likely to happen.

Well that was a quick turnaround...

[danlodish345]

Well that was a quick turnaround...

Actually the second one was a mistype...it's not likely to happen...

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[RedSpark]

11 hours ago, utiz4321 said:

A 39 billion dollar investment that brings with it, 120 mhz of spectrum, 50 million subs, 50,000 towers, operation cost savings of 2 billion a year, increased market power, ECT..  probably has a much higher ROI than 3.8 billion to compete over 20 million subs. In fact, I would imagine alot higher. 

You cant simply look at the cost side and not the benefit side to see if an investment makes sense. 

The sprint/t-mobile merger gives the new company all the same advantages without the vast increase in market power. Given the billions and billions of investment that 5g will require I think it is going to happen at some point. 

And what I’m saying is that you can’t view this potential merger as only a benefit to the company (or companies) and not a potential detriment to consumers and the market as a whole.

AT&T is fully capable of generating its own competitive appeal for customers. It didn’t need to acquire T-Mobile for that.

Same goes for Sprint. This doesn’t have to happen. What’s supposedly “good” for Sprint isn’t necessarily good for us. Sprint is capable of making it on its own steam... and it should.

[IamMrFamous07]

16 hours ago, greenbastard said:

Has anyone spotted any massive mimo equipment in Los Angeles, Chicago, or Dallas yet? 

Haven’t heard anything. I knew they weren’t going to accomplish this

[RedSpark]

53 minutes ago, IamMrFamous07 said:

Haven’t heard anything. I knew they weren’t going to accomplish this

There’s still a few days of April left!

http://newsroom.sprint.com/sprint-unveils-5g-ready-massive-mimo-markets.htm

[utiz4321]

1 hour ago, RedSpark said:

And what I’m saying is that you can’t view this potential merger as only a benefit to the company (or companies) and not a potential detriment to consumers and the market as a whole.

AT&T is fully capable of generating its own competitive appeal for customers. It didn’t need to acquire T-Mobile for that.

Same goes for Sprint. This doesn’t have to happen. What’s supposedly “good” for Sprint isn’t necessarily good for us. Sprint is capable of making it on its own steam... and it should.

And that is what I said. An ATT/TMOBILE would have given the company alot of market power. Tmobile and sprint on their own compete on price alone. Their networks are no where near the quality of the big two. A combined T mobile and sprint would have two huge, powerful players to compete against. ATT/T mobile would have had one. 

The market is going to three players one way or the other. It Will either be sprint/T mobile or T mobile and the big two. Sprint alone goes bust or becomes a metro type player. It has no way to pay off its debt and as interest rates rise that will become harder and harder. 

[RedSpark]

29 minutes ago, utiz4321 said:

And that is what I said. An ATT/TMOBILE would have given the company alot of market power. Tmobile and sprint on their own compete on price alone. Their networks are no where near the quality of the big two. A combined T mobile and sprint would have two huge, powerful players to compete against. ATT/T mobile would have had one. 

The market is going to three players one way or the other. It Will either be sprint/T mobile or T mobile and the big two. Sprint alone goes bust or becomes a metro type player. It has no way to pay off its debt and as interest rates rise that will become harder and harder. 

Sprint is on its way to being viable competition.

I don’t see Sprint going bust. People have been saying this would happen for years, and it hasn’t happened in spite of the waste, bloat and management mistakes that have happened over the years.

No way to pay off its debt? That’s what free cash flow is for, and that’s happening. Sprint’s cost structure is finally under control. Sprint also has been able to be creative with its financing through SpectrumCo.

Marcelo has finally righted the ship (with credit due to Hesse as well) and Sprint has a viable plan to lead on 5G. I see good things ahead.

[utiz4321]

11 minutes ago, RedSpark said:

Sprint is on its way to being viable competition.

I don’t see Sprint going bust. People have been saying this would happen for years, and it hasn’t happened in spite of the waste, bloat and management mistakes that have happened over the years.

No way to pay off its debt? That’s what free cash flow is for, and that’s happening. Sprint’s cost structure is finally under control. Sprint also has been able to be creative with its financing through SpectrumCo.

Marcelo has finally righted the ship (with credit due to Hesse as well) and Sprint has a viable plan to lead on 5G. I see good things ahead.

That is a rosy outlook. They are not going to leverage 100 percent of their spectrum and that is coming to an end. The brand is terrible and needs about a billion in investment to bring it back up to snuff, they are on their 4th network plan and no one can say with confidence that they will follow through, they are adding customer but topline revenue continues to shrink, sprints moves in the market place goes almost unnoticed by it's competitors (T mobile can but not always) and unless they start growing top line revenue they I dont think they will generate enough Free cash flow to pay off the debts without starving the network. 

[IamMrFamous07]

1 hour ago, RedSpark said:

There’s still a few days of April left!

http://newsroom.sprint.com/sprint-unveils-5g-ready-massive-mimo-markets.htm

Don’t think it’s going to happen my friend. We only got the fcc id certification for one of the vendors and I believe we’re still waiting for the other two. Plus I haven’t seen any tower permit apps yet. 

Dont think they can get all that done in 5 days lol

[RedSpark]

51 minutes ago, IamMrFamous07 said:

Don’t think it’s going to happen my friend. We only got the fcc id certification for one of the vendors and I believe we’re still waiting for the other two. Plus I haven’t seen any tower permit apps yet. 

Dont think they can get all that done in 5 days lol

I’m holding onto hope! ?

Any way to find out the other FCC ID’s?

Would there necessarily have to be a permit for an Antenna swap?

[RedSpark]

1 hour ago, utiz4321 said:

That is a rosy outlook. They are not going to leverage 100 percent of their spectrum and that is coming to an end. The brand is terrible and needs about a billion in investment to bring it back up to snuff, they are on their 4th network plan and no one can say with confidence that they will follow through, they are adding customer but topline revenue continues to shrink, sprints moves in the market place goes almost unnoticed by it's competitors (T mobile can but not always) and unless they start growing top line revenue they I dont think they will generate enough Free cash flow to pay off the debts without starving the network. 

I still have faith and I’m long on Sprint stock. Sprint’s fundamentals are finally on solid ground and it’s making forward progress. The needed investment is finally happening. I believe the push to 5G will put Sprint at self-sustaining critical mass. In my opinion, the reality is much better than the perception... and Sprint can fix the perception problem by making itself the 5G leader and communicating that effectively.

[bigsnake49]

The only thing that Sprint has accomplished is pile up debt, $39B. Where will it find the money to deploy 5G? How will it pay down its massive debt while also maintaining its LTE network and investing in 5G? Borrowing against spectrum can only go so far. Where will it get new subscribers? The market is saturated so it will have to steal them from other players. How will it compete since its network does not match the others. It can only compete on price. Which means it will not not have as much funding as the others. It's a vicious cycle. Sprint needs a savior and it is not Softbank. They have not invested in the network. It almost makes me wish Dish had acquired them.

[greenbastard]

2 hours ago, RedSpark said:

The needed investment is finally happening. 

Since we haven't seen any massive MIMO equipment in the wild, I'm assuming that investment has been put on hold. We were promised April for Dallas, Los Angeles, and Chicago and we are about to hit May.

This tells me Sprint is either serious about merging or they are having serious issues with suppliers (highly doubtful it is the latter).

[S4GRU]

All this gloom and doom.  And Sprint is still better than it's ever been.  But now.  Now it's the end.  LOL

I've got a headline for you...

NAYSAYERS SAY NAY.

That's all they ever say.

[danlodish345]

43 minutes ago, S4GRU said:

All this gloom and doom.  And Sprint is still better than it's ever been.  But now.  Now it's the end.  LOL

I've got a headline for you...

NAYSAYERS SAY NAY.

That's all they ever say.

They also say hey which is for horses.

[bigsnake49]

14 hours ago, S4GRU said:

All this gloom and doom.  And Sprint is still better than it's ever been.  But now.  Now it's the end.  LOL

I've got a headline for you...

NAYSAYERS SAY NAY.

That's all they ever say.

Wake me up when they actually finish something. When they're not waiting for...Godot...I mean to get merged. Wake me up when they actually deploy triband on all their sites. Wake me up when they implement 4x4 MIMO, 256QAM and 3CA on all their sites. Wake me up when they stop roaming in suburban and exurban areas and get control of their roaming costs. Wake me up when they actually execute. For me, it is the execution part that makes this merger attractive. I just want them to actually execute and they can only do it under competent leadership. I want them out of the hands of Softbank.

Edited April 26, 2018 by bigsnake49