Official Tmobile-Sprint merger discussion thread

[chamb]

23 minutes ago, bigsnake49 said:

You already have 4x4 MIMO on band 71. You just can't have massive MIMO because the antenna would be huge.

Is it possible that somebody might come up with a way to do MIMO on band 71 with some kind of antenna magic?  Consider how small the antennas are for band 71 in the phone.  Any company that can come up with a MIMO antenna for band 71 would probably have all the market to themselves for awhile.  I do realize the antennas in a phone are not going to ever be the same at a base station. But we can hope that the base station  antennas can be improved.

[chamb]

14 hours ago, Abdual Rodriguez said:

T-Mobile and Sprint have no plan on how to commingle the 2 teams and networks. Its only a couple of weeks in and already messy. And TMO has the same elitist attitude towards their peers from Sprint. Everyone is hoping for the best, as well as the commitment to not layoff anyone for a period of time (3 years?). Trending in the wrong direction. 

 

Abdul Rodriguez

 

Yes, things might get sort of messy.  The best talent might depart and it could be from either side. 

[bigsnake49]

6 minutes ago, chamb said:

Is it possible that somebody might come up with a way to do MIMO on band 71 with some kind of antenna magic?  Consider how small the antennas are for band 71 in the phone.  Any company that can come up with a MIMO antenna for band 71 would probably have all the market to themselves for awhile.  I do realize the antennas in a phone are not going to ever be the same at a base station. But we can hope that the base station  antennas can be improved.

In order to have massive MIMO at that frequency and to have a reasonably sized antenna each of the antenna elements will have to be a smaller and smaller fraction of the wavelength. Efficiency suffers when your element size is an ever decreasing size of the wavelength. If I remember my RF theory classes, coverage might suffer. Of course a lot has changed since the 1970s when I took that class :).

[chamb]

3 minutes ago, bigsnake49 said:

In order to have massive MIMO at that frequency and to have a reasonably sized antenna each of the antenna elements will have to be a smaller and smaller fraction of the wavelength. Efficiency suffers when your element size is an ever decreasing size of the wavelength. If I remember my RF theory classes, coverage might suffer. Of course a lot has changed since the 1970s when I took that class :).

You are almost in the same class as I am.  Actually I date back before the 70"s.  I have seen antenna technology change quite often.  This is exactly why I asked the question.  I am too old to be involved with designing or installing cell sites anymore.  However, it just may be possible to find somebody smarter than me that could figure it all out.  You have to start thinking less about the physical size antenna and more about the electronics at the antenna.  Some laws just can not be broken with RF, but who ever thought those big radios on the ground could be made much more efficient, sized way down and become part of the top mounted antenna.

In the 60's, I never dreamed that fiber would be between the base station cabinet and the antennas. We did not even have cell phones.

[Paynefanbro]

The speed cap was removed here in NYC too. 104 down and 38 up with a 28ms ping.

[S4GRU]

3 hours ago, bigsnake49 said:

You already have 4x4 MIMO on band 71. You just can't have massive MIMO at those frequencies because the antenna would be huge.

I always say the bigger, the better.  It works for steaks.  But I digress...

Robert

[bigsnake49]

Well, I roamed but on band 17 (is that the same as 12?) or does it indicate AT&T?

[Tengen31]

Well, I roamed but on band 17 (is that the same as 12?) or does it indicate AT&T?

Yes same as B12 yes that is att

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[Abdual Rodriguez]

Funny you say that. I fully understand the colossal FUBAR that was Sprint together with Nextel (couldn't even get 1 name) and then the injection of Clear wire dead weight, but now T-mobile has made it clear you must conform immediately or else. 

T-Mobile would be better suited to embrace some of the M&Ps and ways of doing business. Have you been introduced to the "you must be in an office, or else" policy. That shit will backfire on those youngsters. Lets call it what it is 'Office Space'.

Enough of my rant for today. 

[derrph]

Cap was removed in Columbus Ohio. After disabling the Sprint bands, I latched onto b66 and got 36 down and 20 up.

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[greenbastard]

19 minutes ago, derrph said:

Cap was removed in Columbus Ohio. After disabling the Sprint bands, I latched onto b66 and got 36 down and 20 up.

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If T-Mobile-to-Sprint roaming isn't enabled (and by the looks of it, it won't be), T-Mobile users are going to get an awful network experience. 

[derrph]

If T-Mobile-to-Sprint roaming isn't enabled (and by the looks of it, it won't be), T-Mobile users are going to get an awful network experience. 

I agree especially if it's not a strong Sprint market. I think the decision to to have T-Mobile not roam on Sprint was done to ensure that they dont lose customers in the event tmo customers started to have a bad network experience if they happen to latch onto sprint.

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[Paynefanbro]

Right now Sprint users should only be getting access to T-Mobile's network if they're completely out of reach of a Sprint signal. So for most T-Mobile users the impact on performance is basically zero right now. It's not like suddenly all Sprint users are camped on T-Mobile's network 24/7. 

[S4GRU]

28 minutes ago, derrph said:

I agree especially if it's not a strong Sprint market. I think the decision to to have T-Mobile not roam on Sprint was done to ensure that they dont lose customers in the event tmo customers started to have a bad network experience if they happen to latch onto sprint.

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And that may be the thought.  But yesterday I was between Bremerton and Shelton, Washington where there is seamless Sprint service and very patchy Tmo service, and I wished they were doing reverse roaming.  See, I have been a Tmo customer since moving to Washington State 4 years ago.  But Sprint actually has better service here, all things considered.  They can pick and choose Sprint sites to allow Tmo roaming if they wanted.  Sprint did the opposite for years.  Especially the sites they are considering keeping, like the ones that densify coverage in the right areas or add coverage.

Robert

[derrph]

And that may be the thought.  But yesterday I was between Bremerton and Shelton, Washington where there is seamless Sprint service and very patchy Tmo service, and I wished they were doing reverse roaming.  See, I have been a Tmo customer since moving to Washington State 4 years ago.  But Sprint actually has better service here, all things considered.  They can pick and choose Sprint sites to allow Tmo roaming if they wanted.  Sprint did the opposite for years.  Especially the sites they are considering keeping, like the ones that densify coverage in the right areas or add coverage.
Robert

That would be a great idea. Instead of just saying no reverse roaming for T-Mobile customers, allow it only in strong Sprint markets and in areas/ towers where T-Mobile lacks but Sprint is better in that same location.


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[dkyeager]

2 hours ago, derrph said:

That would be a great idea. Instead of just saying no reverse roaming for T-Mobile customers, allow it only in strong Sprint markets and in areas/ towers where T-Mobile lacks but Sprint is better in that same location.


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The key issue is to convert markets as quickly as possible while doing a good job. I would only deal with the outliers in terms of T-Mobile roaming on Sprint. After all, it plays against their marketing message.

[S4GRU]

1 hour ago, dkyeager said:

After all, it plays against their marketing message.

98% wouldn't even notice anything except expanded coverage.  They would not run that back in their mind and then consider a past marketing message.  Just give me bars and meaningful throughput, man.  

Robert

[Abdual Rodriguez]

15 hours ago, avb said:

I thought Sprint outsourced their network team to Ericsson? Or did they bring them back in at some point?

I haven't kept up with Sprint much the past few years.

Most of the network was brought back, but most of the field services is still Ericsson and Goodman. 

[BlueAngel]

So my phone is just chilling on T-Mobile on B4 for no reason even though my magic box is on, interesting.

[ZERO_COOL]

43 minutes ago, BlueAngel said:

So my phone is just chilling on T-Mobile on B4 for no reason even though my magic box is on, interesting.

I wish mine would do that so I don't have to keep disabling and enabling sprint bands. At home my phone parks on unusable signal -122.

[BlueAngel]

4 hours ago, JLevoLTE said:

I wish mine would do that so I don't have to keep disabling and enabling sprint bands. At home my phone parks on unusable signal -122.

I'm still connected since I just woke up, strange!

[dro1984]

Ok...so for those of you that now have access to T-Mobile's network, did it start off kind of with issues for a short time?

I'm connected to a Sprint tower, but I have no data... or very little.    Up until now, I've had my normal Sprint service with it's weak data / slow data, but never had an issue... was/am not getting a T-Mo signal yet.    I'm wondering if some conversion work is taking place in my area right now?  

[derrph]

Odd change of events, my iPhone X seems to perform damn good on b25 in Columbus, OH. My V50 parks itself on B41 and is not as good. The download varies but the upload cannot even complete due to the configuration on the network. I personally don’t mind staying on b25 if I’m getting these kind of speeds. I reinstated the Sprint bands on my V50. I’ll just wait until whatever OTA gets pushed out to it to access T-Mobile.




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[ingenium]

Odd change of events, my iPhone X seems to perform damn good on b25 in Columbus, OH. My V50 parks itself on B41 and is not as good. The download varies but the upload cannot even complete due to the configuration on the network. I personally don’t mind staying on b25 if I’m getting these kind of speeds. I reinstated the Sprint bands on my V50. I’ll just wait until whatever OTA gets pushed out to it to access T-Mobile.




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There shouldn't be an OTA to enable it. It's on the network side, and a configuration change that they make there. It would make the networks appear as one unified network, versus right now they're still separate networks and can't handoff active data sessions (or handoff period. Generally speaking, unless you lose service, the network completely controls handoffs between towers and bands. At the moment, the Sprint network will not move you to T-mobile, and vice versa; they aren't integrated like that yet).

Generally the Sprint network is still preferred at the moment, but if some config change or lack of service or something kicks you off Sprint, it will move to T-mobile and it will probably be "sticky" and not want to move back to Sprint easily. When this happens, and airplane toggle will probably put you back on Sprint. This is because they are still separate networks. The information I've seen indicates that they will be actually merged sometime before the end of June.

I don't know how they'll prioritize the bands in the merged network, but that's also something that is done on the network side, and can vary from region to region (and even tower to tower).

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[RedSpark]

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/t-mobile-s-network-build-track-despite-covid-19

Quote

“Our network build is continuing and on track – thanks to our heroic teams that are working so hard to keep pushing forward,” a spokesperson told FierceWireless in a statement. “We continue to conduct necessary network activity to both maintain our network and expand network capacity – be that LTE or 5G.”

Team members have “already hit the ground running and are looking to immediately begin deploying more mid-band spectrum across the U.S. so we can bring the world’s most transformative 5G network to the U.S. as fast as possible,” the spokesperson added.

So we'll see what happens. I trust that T-Mobile is trying to do this as quickly (and safely) as possible. It's a shame that I couldn't say the same for Sprint over the years.