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Official Tmobile-Sprint merger discussion thread

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21 hours ago, dro1984 said:

Seems like it does.   Not good!   Seems like perfect timing to help add another wrench into the Sprint T Mobile gears...  when does the nonsense stop? 

I think that the DOJ will not approve the merger of Dish/Direct TV unless Dish Wireless is spun off. So only the Dish satellite part is merged with Direct TV.  It seems to me that the old model of broadcast TV whether over the air, satellite or cable is slowly going away. Satellite companies better reuse the spectrum to provide broadband for video

Edited by bigsnake49
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I agree, but how ironic!     The 2 biggest satellite providers are even thinking about merging leaving how many?  Oh wait... just one.   

Sirius and XM were allowed to merge and that left... 1 major / only satellite radio company.     Cellular... oh wait, we need 4 major players along with a number of regional players!   What?! Wait?!        Illogical thinking.    

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45 minutes ago, dro1984 said:

I agree, but how ironic!     The 2 biggest satellite providers are even thinking about merging leaving how many?  Oh wait... just one.   

Sirius and XM were allowed to merge and that left... 1 major / only satellite radio company.     Cellular... oh wait, we need 4 major players along with a number of regional players!   What?! Wait?!        Illogical thinking.    

Maybe, but in fairness, that's at least some measure of an apples/oranges contextual comparison.   A vast majority of the population at large carries around a cellphone these days.  You absolutely can't say the same about satellite radio users/usage, and while the numbers would be considerably larger for sat tv vs radio, there's a ton of the population that still say land locked to cable tv vs. satellite.  I'll admit I'm not remotely sure of the percentage distribution in the US between cable/sat tv, but if forced to, I'd still be willing to bet its considerably over a 50% skew towards cable there.  And even then you still have to compare those numbers combined vs. internet streaming cable cutters.

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In all fairness, I disagree. 

It's more apples to apples then you admit.     "A vast majority of the population at large carries around a cellphone these days"...  and they still have 3 major National carriers (if merger approved), actually 4 right now... and many smaller regional offerings.. not one.    It's how you choose to look at something. I'm not splitting hairs as to the commodity they offer, but like cellular, they are overseen by the FCC/ DOJ.   The vast majority of cars when purchased also come with Satellite radio.  Millions of them.   But only one choice and for many years.   Regardless, the playing rules under the FCC and DOJ are the same.   Point.   But the rules are subject to change at any time...  

They are under the FCC control and the goal of them and the DOJ is to NOT create monopolies, yet, that's what they actually do... for certain commodities/companies.    (shoulders shrugging)   Look at how big they allowed AT&T and Verizon to get by absorbing other smaller cell companies and content providers.   Look at how gigantic they let Comcast get (Huge mistake!)...   It's dirty mess if you ask me.   

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44 minutes ago, PythonFanPA said:

Maybe, but in fairness, that's at least some measure of an apples/oranges contextual comparison.   A vast majority of the population at large carries around a cellphone these days.  You absolutely can't say the same about satellite radio users/usage, and while the numbers would be considerably larger for sat tv vs radio, there's a ton of the population that still say land locked to cable tv vs. satellite.  I'll admit I'm not remotely sure of the percentage distribution in the US between cable/sat tv, but if forced to, I'd still be willing to bet its considerably over a 50% skew towards cable there.  And even then you still have to compare those numbers combined vs. internet streaming cable cutters.

There's OTA broadcasting, cable, satellite and fiber/DSL TV competing for the same subscriber, not to mention wireless carriers offering rural broadband/TV. Not everything is available everywhere but...

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Back when sat radio merged, both companies were bleeding money and almost filed for bankruptcy after the merger still.  Many analysts thought two weak companies were merging to make a weak company. This was more than a decade ago.  Their arguement to the FCC was that the merger was needed just to survive.  If they didn't merge, they could have both disappeared or we still only end up with one service provider in the end.

Since then, they have like almost 30 million subs and almost $6billion in revenue.  But this still needs to be broken down as you don't have to get the signal from satellite to be a SiriusXM customer and this likely includes Pandora subs as well. These days, their radio is transfered just like everyone else's via an app.  You can be a subscriber and get your entertainment through you ISP or Cellular provider. Shoot, I wouldn't be surprised if SiriusXM coming with your new car goes over LTE. 

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5 hours ago, dro1984 said:

They are under the FCC control and the goal of them and the DOJ is to NOT create monopolies


My point actually *was* more 'commodity' based/driven as you said, because as a consumer that's ultimately what I care about.  If you end up with only one satellite tv carrier, that's more of a smaller sub-sample/pseudo-monopoly,...all that's really happened is that one piece of a much larger contextual pie has been drilled down to one option, because as I stated (and snake went even further in his response than I thought of at the time), while you may only have one sat-based option, I still have a great deal of options/choices for tv/media viewing if that happens, and that one piece of the pie is still competing against all the other angles/pieces.  You can't truly claim a monopoly until your only gateway to the end-result product or service you're wanting runs through one single company/controller. 

As for satellite radio, regardless of how many times they throw out the bone of availability in cars (including my own - I'm not a subscriber), it still doesn't carry remotely the kind of service demand that tv/media consumption or wireless phone/data availability does.  You're talking around ~10% of the US population there going by rd's numbers in the post above compared to, again, the vast majority of the population being cell service customers. So, while it may be a monopoly, its certainly not a monopoly on the same scale of comparison that consumer demand shows that it really warrants (nor does it seem that there is movement towards) the FCC stepping back in and breaking it up.   Gwyneth Paltrow has some kooky personal health company with some truly wacked out ideas, one of which is the supposed health benefits of women placing jade eggs in their vaginas, but if she and her company corners the market on the source and availability of all jade eggs in existence, I don't necessarily expect some federal org/entity to come and try and step in to break that up either.  (Disclaimer:  yes, the scope of the demand for this - or, God help us if I'm wrong here - is exponentially smaller even than satellite radio,  but - underscoring my bottom line point with a bit of humor here, so you know I'm just waging in a bit of friendly debate given the response. 😉 )

If you ended up with only one cellular service/wireless data provider, you actually do end up with a true monopoly however over a most-of-the-population demand/relied on product/service.  At least, unless/until we reached a point where sat-phone technology/cost/availability/marketing/etc has reached a competitive state to cellular service, or publicly available indoor and outdoor data-only availability (land and/or sat based) reaches a point it competes on the same scale as present-day cellular wireless providers, and everything suddenly trends towards or moves to purely data/VOIP inter connectivity devices.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm certainly not trying to defend the FCC per se here, and I'm all for more (caveat: quality at least) choice whenever and wherever it can happen.  All I was trying to underscore in response to your original comment is that, in fairness, it *is* an apples/oranges comparison in terms of scope as it relates to how you were weighing/comparing things in your statement, and I'd suspect the FCC would have the same field of view - regardless of what my or your own personal feelings or perspectives on that fact might be.

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15 hours ago, PythonFanPA said:

As for satellite radio, regardless of how many times they throw out the bone of availability in cars (including my own - I'm not a subscriber), it still doesn't carry remotely the kind of service demand that tv/media consumption or wireless phone/data availability does.  You're talking around ~10% of the US population there going by rd's numbers in the post above compared to, again, the vast majority of the population being cell service customers. So, while it may be a monopoly, its certainly not a monopoly on the same scale of comparison that consumer demand shows that it really warrants (nor does it seem that there is movement towards) the FCC stepping back in and breaking it up.   😉

I wouldn't even consider SiriusXM a monopoly anymore.  Maybe after they merged yes.  Having a satellite capable device to get SiriusXM radio isn't a requirement.  These days, it just so happens that they also offer satellite as an available method (which still heavily relies on ground based towers) to receive the service but it is by no means essential to have the service.

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A couple good articles:

How Sprint is working to hold onto Overland Park employees as T-mobile merger drags on

https://www.kansascity.com/news/business/article235439977.html

Sprint Warns of Imminent Doom If Merger Fails

https://www.sdxcentral.com/articles/news/sprint-warns-of-imminent-doom-if-merger-fails/2019/10/

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Yeah but do they still have to go threw the Court date in December?

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Just now, Tengen31 said:

Yeah but do they still have to go threw the Court date in December?

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They won't close the deal until the multi-state lawsuit is done.

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They won't close the deal until the multi-state lawsuit is done.
Which the Judge can decide on

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19 minutes ago, Tengen31 said:

Which the Judge can decide on

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Or which could be settled by the parties involved.

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Or which could be settled by the parties involved.
I have heard TMobile could get more to drop out with the 5G promise like they did with Mississippi and Texas. They will not you any luck with California and NY. If it comes down to, only two states left blocking and the rest support is that enough?

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One step closer I guess.

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1 hour ago, Tengen31 said:

I have heard TMobile could get more to drop out with the 5G promise like they did with Mississippi and Texas. They will not you any luck with California and NY. If it comes down to, only two states left blocking and the rest support is that enough?

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When did they get Texas to drop out?

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Can't wait until this court case is over and done with in December.  Lets just get this merger approved already.  Tmobile and Sprint both need to start ramping up 5G deployment and this AG lawsuit is really getting in the way and not good for wireless customers.

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The people's break away democratic republic states of California and New York are just going to sue them over 5G emissions anyway. Why settle?

8 hours ago, Tengen31 said:

I have heard TMobile could get more to drop out with the 5G promise like they did with Mississippi and Texas. They will not you any luck with California and NY. If it comes down to, only two states left blocking and the rest support is that enough?

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2 hours ago, afazel said:

🙄

Please don't take what I comment with any sincerity. I am entertaining absurdly because this entire process has achieved the absolute heights of absurdity. If I didn't convey with 5G emissions the ridiculousness one would expect this merger to be framed in then I should have supplied an irony outro.

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9 hours ago, belusnecropolis said:

Please don't take what I comment with any sincerity. I am entertaining absurdly because this entire process has achieved the absolute heights of absurdity. If I didn't convey with 5G emissions the ridiculousness one would expect this merger to be framed in then I should have supplied an irony outro.

I found it funny. You can't help but laugh at the whole process. You'd figure that the DOJ would take precedence over state AGs. Nope.

The HSR Act should have given power to AGs to only sue within their own state. Once a company clearly engages in interstate commerce, then any anti-trust issue should be left to the DOJ and DOJ only. For California and New York to decide what a business can and cannot do nationally is absurd.

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Wish they would at least open up full spectrum access in the mean time. Isn't that just enabled through a carrier update?

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One down a few more to go!

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