Official Tmobile-Sprint merger discussion thread

[SuzieTuesday]

33 minutes ago, red_dog007 said:

Oh, that.  C Band is 4-8GHz.  That 3.7-4GHz portion is in the S Band.  I know that 3.7-4.2 is being called C Band atm (maybe cause they are looking at making the 200MHz free from 4-4.2GHz?), but with the recent FCC wanting to make open 1.2GHz in C Band (5925-7125MHz), that is what I was thinking.

That would make things interesting.  Finding a quick article, sat companies said it would take 18-36months to move though. This will happen after the FCC makes a decision, holds an auction and then tells the sat companies to move.  So if this spectrum does go through, it'll be a long time before it can be used. 

Without being a fly on the wall where lobbying is going on it's hard to know for sure. But yeah no way it's gonna be available tomorrow. There does seem to be some support for allowing C-band satellite operators to bypass the FCC/auction process and sell spectrum directly to mobile operators. This would likely be the most expedient route, but on the surface seems chaotic to me.

[Paynefanbro]

Spectrum Sharing also requires compatible devices on the handset side. The more I read about it, the less it seems like the saving grace it was made out to be.

[SuzieTuesday]

8 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

Spectrum Sharing also requires compatible devices on the handset side

Do you have a link/reference to verify this statement? From what I recall a core requirement of 5GNR was interoperability with legacy LTE UE.

[Paynefanbro]

1 minute ago, SuzieTuesday said:

Do you have a link/reference to verify this statement? From what I recall a core requirement of 5GNR was interoperability with legacy LTE UE.

From FierceWireless

Quote

Steve Scarlett, head of technology for Verizon customer business at Nokia, said that the timing of DSS deployment really depends upon the availability of 5G handsets that have the spectrum sharing capability because existing LTE handsets won’t be able to take advantage of the network upgrade, and operators need to be careful so DSS doesn’t impact existing LTE customers. “There are timing signals in LTE that can’t be messed with,” Scarlett said.

 

[SuzieTuesday]

8 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

Steve Scarlett, head of technology for Verizon customer business at Nokia, said that the timing of DSS deployment really depends upon the availability of 5G handsets that have the spectrum sharing capability because existing LTE handsets won’t be able to take advantage of the network upgrade, and operators need to be careful so DSS doesn’t impact existing LTE customers. “There are timing signals in LTE that can’t be messed with,” Scarlett said.

Thanks. First thing to note is that Steve Scarlett works for Nokia. Ericsson has been the market leader re: DSS. So I'm not surprised he's spreading a bit of FUD.

I've read that paragraph several times and am still not sure what he's trying to say.

"...depends upon the availability of 5G handsets that have the spectrum sharing capability..."  No surprise.

"...because existing LTE handsets won’t be able to take advantage of the network upgrade..." What network upgrade, 5G, of course not.

Any way there's more to this story, I don't have time search at the moment but the DSS demo at MWC 2019 was done with a commercial off the shelf 4g smartphone. I mean that's the whole point.

 

[Paynefanbro]

31 minutes ago, SuzieTuesday said:

Thanks. First thing to note is that Steve Scarlett works for Nokia. Ericsson has been the market leader re: DSS. So I'm not surprised he's spreading a bit of FUD.

I've read that paragraph several times and am still not sure what he's trying to say.

"...depends upon the availability of 5G handsets that have the spectrum sharing capability..."  No surprise.

"...because existing LTE handsets won’t be able to take advantage of the network upgrade..." What network upgrade, 5G, of course not.

Any way there's more to this story, I don't have time search at the moment but the DSS demo at MWC 2019 was done with a commercial off the shelf 4g smartphone. I mean that's the whole point.

 

1. Each hardware manufacturer will have to come up with their own DSS implementation since Ericsson's DSS only works on Ericsson hardware meaning that only portions of networks using Ericsson equipment will be able to utilize it for now. Additionally, I'm doubtful that Steve Scarlett is trying to spread FUD about it considering it would be in their best interest to implement it as well for their hardware, he's just being realistic about the drawbacks of it.

2. The network upgrade is DSS since it's a software upgrade for 5G compatible radios.

3. I don't see anywhere that they used an "off the shelf 4G smartphone" for their test. Their press release says they used an Intel 5G device at MWC.

DSS is merely a stopgap until carriers can get fresh mid-band spectrum to deploy 5G on or shut down their LTE networks completely in favor of 5G-NR.

[RedSpark]

T-Mobile, Sprint trash-talk their own networks in bid to merge

Here's the FCC filing from the meeting they had with FCC Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel: https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/10419537725960/4-19-19 Rosenworcel Public Ex Parte.pdf

[SuzieTuesday]

You kind of have to put on your common sense hat.

Hey I've got this nifty solution for easing the transition from 4G to 5G it's called DSS. The only bad news is that all of your existing customers who have 4G phones well... they won't work, they all have to be upgraded to be DSS compatible.

Yeah obviously that's a non-starter.

The beauty of DSS is that it works with existing LTE phones.

53 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

1. Each hardware manufacturer will have to come up with their own DSS implementation since Ericsson's DSS only works on Ericsson hardware meaning that only portions of networks using Ericsson equipment will be able to utilize it for now.

Yep absolutely true.

53 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

Additionally, I'm doubtful that Steve Scarlett is trying to spread FUD about it considering it would be in their best interest to implement it as well for their hardware, he's just being realistic about the drawbacks of it.

Oh believe me he's doing both, adding a bit of FUD and pointing out pitfalls. No question at all that Nokia will implement DSS.

53 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

3. I don't see anywhere that they used an "off the shelf 4G smartphone" for their test. Their press release says they used an Intel 5G device at MWC.

"The live demo will use a 4G and 5G capable radio from Ericsson Radio System, Intel’s 5G Mobile Trial Platform  and a commercial 4G smartphone."

https://www.ericsson.com/en/press-releases/2019/2/ericsson-and-intel-to-show-live-demo-of-4g--5g-dynamic-spectrum-sharing-at-mwc-2019

This point is stressed numerous times in videos of this and several other DSS demos. I don't have time to do the leg work for you, but Google should be able to help.

53 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

DSS is merely a stopgap until carriers can get fresh mid-band spectrum to deploy 5G on or shut down their LTE networks completely in favor of 5G-NR.

Yes! Again the beauty is that DSS allows mobile operators to use existing spectrum for both 4G and 5G at the same time. A much better solution than having to try to decide how to divide spectrum between 4G and 5G as was required in most every other transition from xG to (x+1)G.

Sorry for giving DSS a life of it's own in this thread, I yield my time to Sprint Tmobile merger Disc. 😀

[dkyeager]

FYI: There are vast portions of the country without  significant amounts of Band 41.  Outside of metro areas 20+20+15 is fairly common.  There are many locations with even less.  The FCC has started discussions of making more available, but that is likely on hold awaiting a merger decision. 

[Tengen31]

FYI: There are vast portions of the country without  significant amounts of Band 41.  Outside of metro areas 20+20+15 is fairly common.  There are many locations with even less.  The FCC has started discussions of making more available, but that is likely on hold awaiting a merger decision. 

I'm assuming their is no more PCS Spectrum to auction off?

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[RAvirani]

1 hour ago, Tengen31 said:

I'm assuming their is no more PCS Spectrum to auction off?

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That would be correct. 

[RedSpark]

https://www.t-mobile.com/news/t-mobile-q1-2019-earnings

https://investor.t-mobile.com/financial-performance/quarterly-results/default.aspx

https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/t-mobile-racks-up-more-customers-as-it-awaits-fate-of-sprint-merger/

T-Mobile had a great quarter so it seems...

Sprint should be announcing earnings soon... Sprint’s Fiscal 4Q 2017 Earnings Call was held on May 2, 2018.... But we haven’t heard a word about it even being calendared yet for this year.

Perhaps Sprint’s delay/silence has something to do with the Merger?

[Brad The Beast]

22 minutes ago, RedSpark said:

Sprint should be announcing earnings soon... Sprint’s Fiscal 4Q 2017 Earnings Call was held on May 2, 2018.... But we haven’t heard a word about it even being calendared yet for this year.

Perhaps Sprint’s delay/silence has something to do with the Merger?

I'm sure the AT&T settlement is causing some delays. 

[RedSpark]

1 hour ago, Brad The Beast said:

I'm sure the AT&T settlement is causing some delays. 

As far as forecasting for next quarter, perhaps!

[Brad The Beast]

1 minute ago, RedSpark said:

As far as forecasting for next quarter, perhaps!

We still haven't heard what they got from the AT&T settlement. I'm quite curious when and if we'll find out what happened?

[RedSpark]

5 minutes ago, Brad The Beast said:

We still haven't heard what they got from the AT&T settlement. I'm quite curious when and if we'll find out what happened?

We might never find out if the settlement terms are confidential...

Of course it’s possible there could be a miscellaneous item indicated for it on Sprint’s balance sheet.

[ingenium]

We still haven't heard what they got from the AT&T settlement. I'm quite curious when and if we'll find out what happened?

My guess is free (or a credit for) roaming for a certain period of time.

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[jroepcke51]

14 hours ago, ingenium said:

My guess is free (or a credit for) roaming for a certain period of time.

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From a GAAP prospective, there would have to be an asset on the balance sheet that would have to be amortized if that is the case. As redspark said, something will show up on the BS. 

[RedSpark]

Sprint and T-Mobile have extended the Merger Deadline to July 29

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sprint-m-a-tmobile/us-antitrust-chief-says-has-not-made-up-mind-on-sprint-t-mobile-merger-idUSKCN1S51IK

[tyroned3222]

Sprint and T-Mobile have extended the Merger Deadline to July 29https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sprint-m-a-tmobile/us-antitrust-chief-says-has-not-made-up-mind-on-sprint-t-mobile-merger-idUSKCN1S51IK 

 

Idk why articles are using the term DOJ and approve. I though the DOJ can’t approve or disapprove.. I thought they can only sue to block if the FCC ends up approving the deal. I know the DOJ can send signal that they don’t like the deal and the FCC usually follow that lead, but not the other way around

 

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[dro1984]

CNBC interviewed Makan Delrahim.   I think they do have an "Approve" / "Disapprove" ability.   

Here is the link:

Makan Delrahim on Sprint/T Mobile review.  4/29/19

[bigsnake49]

I still don't understand all this delay. There are very defined roles for government agencies to approve or reject the deal. The DOJ with the anti-trust angle and the FCC with the concentration of spectrum. All the consumer angles as in possibility of higher prices or the potential loss of jobs are not part of the consideration process. Now there are potential DOJ angles as far as previous roaming contracts that need to be enforced, assignments of Sprint spectrum to roaming partners in exchange for free or low cost roaming etc, etc. The FTC might take into consideration the issue that the the deal might "substantially lessen competition".

Edited April 30, 2019 by bigsnake49

[Tengen31]

I still don't understand all this delay. There are very defined roles for government agencies to approve or reject the deal. The DOJ with the anti-trust angle and the FCC with the concentration of spectrum. All the consumer angles as in possibility of higher prices or the potential loss of jobs are not part of the consideration process. Now there are potential DOJ angles as far as previous roaming contracts that need to be enforced, assignments of Sprint spectrum to roaming partners in exchange for free or low cost roaming etc, etc. The FTC might take into consideration the issue that the the deal might "substantially lessen competition".

If they are so concerned about spectrum then why let it fail where 2.5 will just sit on the side lines for the next 5 years where the merger it would not

 

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[bigsnake49]

1 hour ago, Tengen31 said:

If they are so concerned about spectrum then why let it fail where 2.5 will just sit on the side lines for the next 5 years where the merger it would not

 

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They're actually not concerned about spectrum. Or anti-trust. They are mostly concerned about political considerations as in loss of jobs. Either way they are doing CYA no matter what the decision. They are looking for plausible reason no matter what the decision. 

[BlueAngel]

This could be a positive for the merger, gonna be down to possibly 3 carriers anyway.