Official Tmobile-Sprint merger discussion thread

[RAvirani]

8 minutes ago, Brad The Beast said:

They don’t have the money to buy it nationwide. They could probably squeeze it in limited areas where it’s needed most. 

Or they could get in bed with Dish. Dish's 600 holdings are 5x5 nationwide with larger holdings in major metros. 

http://maps.spectrumgateway.com/dish-600-mhz.html

Working with Dish would also get them:

• 6 MHz 700 E Block (722-728) (This can likely be traded/sold to AT&T)
• 15 MHz AWS-3 (1695-1710)
• 10 MHz PCS-H (1915-1920, 1995-2000) (I wonder if some DSS magic could be done here to allow for a PCS C+G+H NR carrier)
• 40 MHz AWS-4 (2000-2020, 2180-2200) (Sprint can petition for LTE band 23 to be standardized for NR in order to use this spectrum)

[Tengen31]

Or they could get in bed with Dish. Dish's 600 holdings are 5x5 nationwide with larger holdings in major metros. 

http://maps.spectrumgateway.com/dish-600-mhz.html

Working with Dish would also get them:

• 6 MHz 700 E Block (722-728) (this can likely be traded/sold to AT&T)
• 15 MHz AWS-3 (1695-1710)
• 10 MHz PCS-H (1915-1920, 1995-2000) (I wonder if some DSS magic could be done here to allow for a PCS C+G+H NR carrier)
• 40 MHz AWS-4 (2000-2020, 2180-2200) 

Dang in my area dish has 10x10 which Sprint could use as we don't have any FDD higher than 2 5x5's

 

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[Brad The Beast]

3 minutes ago, RAvirani said:

Or they could get in bed with Dish. Dish's 600 holdings are 5x5 nationwide with larger holdings in major metros. 

http://maps.spectrumgateway.com/dish-600-mhz.html

Working with Dish would also get them:

• 6 MHz 700 E Block (722-728) (This can likely be traded/sold to AT&T)
• 15 MHz AWS-3 (1695-1710)
• 10 MHz PCS-H (1915-1920, 1995-2000) (I wonder if some DSS magic could be done here to allow for a PCS C+G+H NR carrier)
• 40 MHz AWS-4 (2000-2020, 2180-2200) (Sprint can petition for LTE band 23 to be standardized for NR in order to use this spectrum)

So would Dish be a spectrum Sugar Daddy then? How would Dish play into this?

[Brad The Beast]

Also for anyone interested. We are trying to set up an AMA with Dr. Saw over on r/Sprint. Don’t know if it’s going to happen because he’s super busy. Just thought you guys would be interested. 

[Tengen31]

Or they could get in bed with Dish. Dish's 600 holdings are 5x5 nationwide with larger holdings in major metros. 
http://maps.spectrumgateway.com/dish-600-mhz.html
Working with Dish would also get them:

• 6 MHz 700 E Block (722-728) (This can likely be traded/sold to AT&T)
• 15 MHz AWS-3 (1695-1710)
• 10 MHz PCS-H (1915-1920, 1995-2000) (I wonder if some DSS magic could be done here to allow for a PCS C+G+H NR carrier)
• 40 MHz AWS-4 (2000-2020, 2180-2200) (Sprint can petition for LTE band 23 to be standardized for NR in order to use this spectrum)

What's B23? Aws4 is B70

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[Brad The Beast]

3 minutes ago, Tengen31 said:

What's B23? Aws4 is B70

According to Wikipedia there is no band 23.

[RAvirani]

3 hours ago, Tengen31 said:

What's B23? Aws4 is B70

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3 hours ago, Brad The Beast said:

According to Wikipedia there is no band 23.

3GPP release 10.3. 

2180-2200 DL/2000-2020 UL. It's not terribly publicized because it was never used/deployed. Band 70 is a hodgepodge of Dish's spectrum holdings that was created due to Sprint's (and possibly a few other companies' although I can’t remember) complaints that the PCS H block would interfere with other PCS operations. 

[RAvirani]

4 hours ago, Brad The Beast said:

So would Dish be a spectrum Sugar Daddy then? How would Dish play into this?

Dish has very clearly expressed that they want to do something with their spectrum. Buildout deadlines have passed and been extended. They likely will not be extended again.

If the merger falls through and Dish's options are to partner with an existing carrier or to build a network from scratch and try to compete on a national scale, I think they would choose the former. This market is one of economies of scale and enormous barriers to entry. If Dish were to try to build a network from scratch, they wouldn't see profit for years and years. And even after this time, ROI isn't guaranteed. 

T-Mobile isn't as interested in smaller chunks of low/midband spectrum as they already have enough. What they need is large swaths of highband for NR. This is probably their biggest motivation for the merger. Dish can’t help them there.

AT&T has more spectrum than they can put on air, and isn't looking for more. They have B14 and B66 that hasn't been deployed across half, if not more of the nation.

Verizon has repeatedly stated that they are perfectly happy with their current low/midband spectrum holdings. If they wanted to bid on 600 MHz spectrum, they could and would have. 

This leaves Sprint, who I think could benefit a lot from Dish's spectrum holdings. 

[Tengen31]

Dish has very clearly expressed that they want to do something with their spectrum. Buildout deadlines have passed and been extended. They likely will not be extended again.
If the merger falls through and Dish's options are to partner with an existing carrier or to build a network from scratch and try to compete on a national scale, I think they would choose the former. This market is one of economies of scale and enormous barriers to entry. If Dish were to try to build a network from scratch, they wouldn't see profit for years and years. And even after this time, ROI isn't guaranteed. 
T-Mobile isn't as interested in smaller chunks of low/midband spectrum as they already have enough. What they need is large swaths of highband for NR. This is probably their biggest motivation for the merger. Dish can’t help them there.
AT&T has more spectrum than they can put on air, and isn't looking for more. They have B14 and B66 that hasn't been deployed across half, if not more of the nation.
Verizon has repeatedly stated that they are perfectly happy with their current low/midband spectrum holdings. If they wanted to bid on 600 MHz spectrum, they could and would have. 
This leaves Sprint, who I think could benefit a lot from Dish's spectrum holdings. 

Yeah VZW is buying B48 TDD

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[RAvirani]

2 hours ago, Tengen31 said:

Yeah VZW is buying B48 TDD

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Yes. That is not low/midband spectrum as I said. 

[Tengen31]

Yes. That is not low/midband spectrum as I said. 

Yes I know that

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[RedSpark]

T-Mobile Pauses 5G Network Construction Due to Sprint Merger Delays – Report

Hmmmm... Wonder if there’s any truth to this.

In this very positive article/review of the OnePlus 7 Pro 5G and Sprint’s 5G Network in Los Angeles, Sprint had no comment on its network plans beyond the 9 5G cities currently launched: https://venturebeat.com/2019/08/28/sprints-oneplus-7-pro-5g-lets-you-experience-2020s-typical-5g-today/?

Hopefully Sprint isn’t pausing.

[S4GRU]

58 minutes ago, RedSpark said:

Hopefully Sprint isn’t pausing.

Based on what we're seeing in the field, it doesn't look like it.  Besides, I don't really think they can.  Until merging is fully approved, they have to keep their businesses going as if they will be separate.  Otherwise, it opens them up to a lot of problems with approving jurisdictions, the SEC and shareholders.  And even customers for that matter.  You don't want to open yourself up to a lot of criticism and controversy when you are so close to getting approved. 

I'd be surprised if even the Tmo report was true.  It may be coincidental.  Like they are running out of the work that was already planned before the merger talk started and now it is becoming difficult to make new plans while in limbo, so they are focusing on capacity in the short term.  Something along those lines.  It would be shocking if Tmo was just deciding to scrap their existing plans and do noting because a merger is being sought.

Robert

[Tengen31]

T-Mobile Pauses 5G Network Construction Due to Sprint Merger Delays – Report
Hmmmm... Wonder if there’s any truth to this.
In this very positive article/review of the OnePlus 7 Pro 5G and Sprint’s 5G Network in Los Angeles, Sprint had no comment on its network plans beyond the 9 5G cities currently launched: https://venturebeat.com/2019/08/28/sprints-oneplus-7-pro-5g-lets-you-experience-2020s-typical-5g-today/?
Hopefully Sprint isn’t pausing.

TMobile had to pause because they don't have ( other than B71) enough spectrum for 5G. They could refarm spectrum but then you would have to force people on 5G phones and not everyone is willing to upgrade when they cost 1000 plus dollars. I'm not

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[Brad The Beast]

On 9/4/2019 at 1:30 AM, RAvirani said:

Dish has very clearly expressed that they want to do something with their spectrum. Buildout deadlines have passed and been extended. They likely will not be extended again.

If the merger falls through and Dish's options are to partner with an existing carrier or to build a network from scratch and try to compete on a national scale, I think they would choose the former. This market is one of economies of scale and enormous barriers to entry. If Dish were to try to build a network from scratch, they wouldn't see profit for years and years. And even after this time, ROI isn't guaranteed. 

T-Mobile isn't as interested in smaller chunks of low/midband spectrum as they already have enough. What they need is large swaths of highband for NR. This is probably their biggest motivation for the merger. Dish can’t help them there.

AT&T has more spectrum than they can put on air, and isn't looking for more. They have B14 and B66 that hasn't been deployed across half, if not more of the nation.

Verizon has repeatedly stated that they are perfectly happy with their current low/midband spectrum holdings. If they wanted to bid on 600 MHz spectrum, they could and would have. 

This leaves Sprint, who I think could benefit a lot from Dish's spectrum holdings. 

But Dish has no money. How would they work with Sprint?

[Tengen31]

But Dish has no money. How would they work with Sprint?

Could find a 3rd party.

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[Brad The Beast]

7 hours ago, S4GRU said:

Based on what we're seeing in the field, it doesn't look like it.  Besides, I don't really think they can.  Until merging is fully approved, they have to keep their businesses going as if they will be separate.  Otherwise, it opens them up to a lot of problems with approving jurisdictions, the SEC and shareholders.  And even customers for that matter.  You don't want to open yourself up to a lot of criticism and controversy when you are so close to getting approved. 

I'd be surprised if even the Tmo report was true.  It may be coincidental.  Like they are running out of the work that was already planned before the merger talk started and now it is becoming difficult to make new plans while in limbo, so they are focusing on capacity in the short term.  Something along those lines.  It would be shocking if Tmo was just deciding to scrap their existing plans and do noting because a merger is being sought.

Robert

Looks like they're getting ready to go-live in Chattanooga.

[Brad The Beast]

4 minutes ago, Tengen31 said:

Could find a 3rd party.

So we've gotta get 3 parties involved now? Who's gonna get involved that has money? 

[RAvirani]

14 minutes ago, Brad The Beast said:

But Dish has no money. How would they work with Sprint?

I'm confused by your question. 

[Brad The Beast]

Just now, RAvirani said:

I'm confused by your question. 

Dish has spectrum but no money. Sprint needs money and spectrum. What good is Dish if they don't come with money?

[Brad The Beast]

11 minutes ago, RAvirani said:

I'm confused by your question. 

I suppose the better way to put this is what good is more spectrum if you don't have any money to deploy it?

[RAvirani]

3 minutes ago, Brad The Beast said:

Dish has spectrum but no money. Sprint needs money and spectrum. What good is Dish if they don't come with money?

Sprint would enter into some sort of spectrum hosting agreement with Dish (like Sprint did with LightSquared before all the satellite issues). Sprint gets spectrum, Dish gets a network.

[RAvirani]

3 minutes ago, Brad The Beast said:

I suppose the better way to put this is what good is more spectrum if you don't have any money to deploy it?

Look at the number of upgrades and new sites coming through permitting now. Sprint is not as broke as they would like everyone to think. 

And Dish isn't broke either. They are ready to spend to the tune of billions on wireless assets if the merger happens today. 

[Brad The Beast]

Just now, RAvirani said:

Look at the number of upgrades and new sites coming through permitting now. Sprint is not as broke as they would like everyone to think. 

And Dish isn't broke either. They are ready to spend to the tune of billions of the merger happens today. Dish has a lot to lose. 

I haven't seen many new sites. Upgrades seem to be coming through at a decent pace though. I thought Dish was dirt poor. So Dish would enter into a spectrum hosting agreement with Sprint. Would Dish spend any money on the network then?

[RAvirani]

Just now, Brad The Beast said:

I haven't seen many new sites. Upgrades seem to be coming through at a decent pace though. I thought Dish was dirt poor. So Dish would enter into a spectrum hosting agreement with Sprint. Would Dish spend any money on the network then?

Possibly. All of this is just speculation, of course.