Official Tmobile-Sprint merger discussion thread

[RedSpark]

Dr. Saw lays out the case for the merger...

[NYC126]

On 4/4/2019 at 3:53 PM, RedSpark said:

Dr. Saw lays out the case for the merger...

"The proposed @TMobile @Sprint merger is vital to accelerating the deployment of a nationwide mobile #5G network, enabling the U.S. to take a leadership position in 5G." 

Translation this government needs to approve this merger so I can the millions of dollars that I was promised then I would move back to Seattle where I used to reside during my Clearwire days. 

[runagun]

14 hours ago, NYC126 said:

"The proposed @TMobile @Sprint merger is vital to accelerating the deployment of a nationwide mobile #5G network, enabling the U.S. to take a leadership position in 5G." 

Translation this government needs to approve this merger so I can the millions of dollars that I was promised then I would move back to Seattle where I used to reside during my Clearwire days. 

Who the heck wants to live in Overland Park KS?  It's like the damn Truman show. Marcello couldn't wait to leave. Lol

[derrph]

"The proposed @TMobile @Sprint merger is vital to accelerating the deployment of a nationwide mobile #5G network, enabling the U.S. to take a leadership position in 5G." 
Translation this government needs to approve this merger so I can the millions of dollars that I was promised then I would move back to Seattle where I used to reside during my Clearwire days. 

I don’t see nor understand as to why the US needs to bet China is 5G. This wasn’t a issue when LTE launched. Verizon nor ATT are screaming this. Sounds like to me it’s more “we won’t be able to compete properly with Verizon or ATT alone in 5G.

Sprint between the two could actually do it (given a steady stream of capex). T-Mobile I think will be at a disadvantage. I know they have their 600 but realistically, will it really make an impact in 5G (speed etc) besides distance?


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[bigsnake49]

3 hours ago, derrph said:

 

 

I don’t see nor understand as to why the US needs to bet China is 5G. This wasn’t a issue when LTE launched. Verizon nor ATT are screaming this. Sounds like to me it’s more “we won’t be able to compete properly with Verizon or ATT alone in 5G.

Sprint between the two could actually do it (given a steady stream of capex). T-Mobile I think will be at a disadvantage. I know they have their 600 but realistically, will it really make an impact in 5G (speed etc) besides distance?


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They can always employ it in CBRS which has both a shared and an exclusive mode. Also LAA and soon C-Band. Also don't forget that Dish is always lurking.

Edited April 8, 2019 by bigsnake49

[Paynefanbro]

45 minutes ago, bigsnake49 said:

They can always employ it in CBRS which has both a shared and an exclusive mode. Also LAA and soon C-Band. Also don't forget that Dish is always lurking.

That's a lot of speculation though. Everyone is itching to get their hands on CBRS so I'm doubtful T-Mobile would be able to walk away with the entire pot like they did with 600MHz. LAA for now only applies to LTE and even if they expand it to work for 5G-NR it would only deployed in hotspot configurations for added capacity much like mmWave on Verizon is right now. We continuously think of Dish as a wild card but realistically, they haven't done anything for the past 5 years besides buy up more and more spectrum and promise they're gonna deploy it some day.

I think it's time we admit that Sprint did something right by playing the long game with Band 41 because now they have the most desirable 5G spectrum in the U.S. The only thing that sucks is that they lack the funds to deploy it as widely as they want to. Meanwhile Verizon and AT&T are stuck with spotty 5G coverage and T-Mobile will be lacking the high speeds that people will come to associate with 5G until they can begin shutting down LTE on AWS and PCS and begin aggregating it with 600MHz.

[tyroned3222]

That's a lot of speculation though. Everyone is itching to get their hands on CBRS so I'm doubtful T-Mobile would be able to walk away with the entire pot like they did with 600MHz. LAA for now only applies to LTE and even if they expand it to work for 5G-NR it would only deployed in hotspot configurations for added capacity much like mmWave on Verizon is right now. We continuously think of Dish as a wild card but realistically, they haven't done anything for the past 5 years besides buy up more and more spectrum and promise they're gonna deploy it some day.
I think it's time we admit that Sprint did something right by playing the long game with Band 41 because now they have the most desirable 5G spectrum in the U.S. The only thing that sucks is that they lack the funds to deploy it as widely as they want to. Meanwhile Verizon and AT&T are stuck with spotty 5G coverage and T-Mobile will be lacking the high speeds that people will come to associate with 5G until they can begin shutting down LTE on AWS and PCS and begin aggregating it with 600MHz.

The good thing is TMO is leveraging the LAA (using small cells)spectrum to boost speeds on LTE which in return will bring much better performs on that... I think 5G is long term game ( very long term). I think LTE will still be important for years to come. So, I’m still excited to see TMO boost performance of its LTE network and sprint doing the same.


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[greenbastard]

6 hours ago, derrph said:

I don’t see nor understand as to why the US needs to bet China is 5G. This wasn’t a issue when LTE launched. Verizon nor ATT are screaming this. 

 

 

LTE wasn't launched on mmW spectrum.

Apples to Oranges comparison. 5G is a whole different monster.

[Thomas L.]

On 4/7/2019 at 10:45 AM, NYC126 said:

"The proposed @TMobile @Sprint merger is vital to accelerating the deployment of a nationwide mobile #5G network, enabling the U.S. to take a leadership position in 5G." 

Translation this government needs to approve this merger so I can the millions of dollars that I was promised then I would move back to Seattle where I used to reside during my Clearwire days. 

The US is going to lose to China with this no matter what. There is no way we can compete with three carriers that are owned and financed by the Chinese government using the equipment of companies that are also under the control of the Chinese government, with all three of the mobile carriers also having direct access to the country's fiber backbone, again by order the government, all without the permitting issues the US has because the Chinese government has prioritized deployment of 5G in their national economic plan and there's no such thing as NIMBYs in China. Not to mention spectrum isn't bought in China, it's allocated as a resource for the good the country's economic interest, such as that it's designed for optimal deployments in LTE and now 5G (it's being reconfigured). That type of synergy is unimaginable in the US.

This is without mentioning the fact that the government has consolidated the towers of China Telecom and China Unicom (the two smaller carriers in China) into China Tower (again, owned by the Chinese government) so that they basically share towers and are sharing the burden of 5G deployment. China Mobile has a network that was built with a density and spacing that was optimized for Band 41 LTE, which means they alone have more than 1,000,000 deployed cell sites, and they are being reallocated additional 2500/2600mhz spectrum from China Unicom and China Telecom for 5G - they'll just have to add equipment to existing towers which are already spaced with appropriate density. Oh, and the entirety of China's 700mhz spectrum in the APT TDD allocation (band 44, equivalent to bands 12/13/14/29 in the US) will also likely be used for 5G when that spectrum is cleared in a few years. Where US carriers add spectrum to avoid the cost of increasing density, Chinese carriers increase density to make better use of spectrum resources, meaning more bandwidth for 5G while keeping LTE performance. China Unicom and Telecom have been allocated the IMT spectrum in the 3.5ghz band that will be the international standard. A huge amount of the Chinese economy is built around smartphones, mobile payments, the gig economy, etc. - much more than in the US, and it's a massive government priority - T-Mobile combining with Sprint will have a minimal comparative effect on the ability of the US to "win" in the race to 5G considering all of these factors. They are basically bamboozling people who don't know better with what is basically an appeal to economic nationalism. 

[nexgencpu]

2 hours ago, Thomas L. said:

 

SK telecom has over 30k sites live with 5G. I don't think we're beating any of the big players to ubiquitous 5G. 

[Brad The Beast]

10 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

Everyone is itching to get their hands on CBRS

CBRS is 3.5GHz correct?

[Paynefanbro]

Just now, Brad The Beast said:

CBRS is 3.5GHz correct?

Yes

[Brad The Beast]

Just now, Paynefanbro said:

Yes

So I presume everyone else would want to jump in on that? Would Sprint jump in on it or just stay with 2.5GHz?

[Paynefanbro]

Just now, Brad The Beast said:

So I presume everyone else would want to jump in on that? Would Sprint jump in on it or just stay with 2.5GHz?

Sprint along with the 3 other nationwide carriers has been talking about going for CBRS since at least 2017.

[Thomas L.]

3 minutes ago, Brad The Beast said:

So I presume everyone else would want to jump in on that? Would Sprint jump in on it or just stay with 2.5GHz?

It is yet another chunk of spectrum that is available, so every carrier out there will jump on it because it has unlicensed dynamically allocated components. 

[Brad The Beast]

1 minute ago, Paynefanbro said:

Sprint along with the 3 other nationwide carriers has been talking about going for CBRS since at least 2017.

600MHz + 2.5GHz + 3.5GHz sounds glorious. 

[dkyeager]

18 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

We continuously think of Dish as a wild card but realistically, they haven't done anything for the past 5 years besides buy up more and more spectrum and promise they're gonna deploy it some day.

Dish does have permits in Columbus for antennas, likely of the protection site variety.

 

18 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

T-Mobile will be lacking the high speeds that people will come to associate with 5G until they can begin shutting down LTE on AWS and PCS and begin aggregating it with 600MHz.

T-Mobile mmWave licenses:

🌞 T-Mobile typically has 850MHz in Ohio:

 

[Paynefanbro]

1 hour ago, dkyeager said:

Dish does have permits in Columbus for antennas, likely of the protection site variety.

 

T-Mobile mmWave licenses:

 

🌞 T-Mobile typically has 850MHz in Ohio:

 

 

I'm well aware of their mmWave licenses. That's still an extremely small coverage area and T-Mobile will be tasked with covering whole cities with mmWave with half the capex of Verizon or AT&T. 

[tyroned3222]

I'm well aware of their mmWave licenses. That's still an extremely small coverage area and T-Mobile will be tasked with covering whole cities with mmWave with half the capex of Verizon or AT&T. 

How expensive is it to roll out mmwave? The articles I’ve read say that small cells are cheaper to rollout within dense urban markets( and at times the only option). I think the concern are suburban markets and offering 5G coverage nationwide.

[nexgencpu]

1 hour ago, tyroned3222 said:

How expensive is it to roll out mmwave? The articles I’ve read say that small cells are cheaper to rollout within dense urban markets( and at times the only option). I think the concern are suburban markets and offering 5G coverage nationwide.

With about 300-400ft LOS outdoor coverage and non existent indoors penetration per site, it's probably gonna cost a buttload of money and sites to cover anything meaningful.

[bigsnake49]

If you're using mmwave as anything other than in a hotspot manner as in stadiums, malls, etc. You will need millions of small cells. That's why all the players in the US want to secure sub 6GHz spectrum. 

 

[dkyeager]

The biggest likely mmWave issue is from your phone to the small cell.  I would love to see a out of band CA solution with a lower band to this and how well it works.  I agree that stadiums are one the best venues.  Basically anywhere people congregate in large numbers with limited movement.

As people make assumptions about mmWave, they should be aware that very little of it is currently contiguous.  Most in 50 MHz segments some in 100Mhz or 150Mhz.  Thus CA is likely being used in the band.  We all know what that does to upload speeds and the hesitation it can give to download speeds.  We also don't know if Massive MIMO is enabled at these 5g small cell sites.

T-Mobile's Ohio spectrum does have one 400Mhz block (the 5g maximum bandwidth, at least planned).

[NYC126]

PC magazine tested Verizon 5G network in Chicago and it's basically a disaster in the making.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/367659/heres-the-real-truth-about-verizons-5g-network

You have a small cell/tower across the street from a Starbucks then inside of the next building to it, you drop to 41mbps LMAO while outside you would get over 400mbps. MMwave is a crap spectrum. Sprint was well positioned to smoke the competition on 5G had those cheap Japanese investors would have given them a vote of confidence. 2.5ghz is the sweet spot for 5G, its give you coverage and badass speeds.

[Brad The Beast]

6 hours ago, dkyeager said:

T-Mobile mmWave licenses:

But mmWave is trash though. We can see that with Verizon's 5G launch flunk. 

[tyroned3222]

But mmWave is trash though. We can see that with Verizon's 5G launch flunk. 

Let’s give it the benefits of the doubt.. it’s still early still more optimizations to add, a better phone without a mod is coming. I think with the new Samsung galaxy S10 5G and as Verizon adds more tech to the 5G nodes. It will be better in the coming months


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