Jump to content

Future low band


red_dog007

Recommended Posts

https://transition.fcc.gov/pshs/docs/T-Band_FactSheet_July2016.pdf

Possibly 42MHz added for cellular from 470-512MHz here? Would this be TDD?

 

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-19-330A1.pdf

After 2024, does this mean that any licenses remaining can be purchased and utilized for cellular?  At this time, would Sprint be able to purchases licenses from any PS or CI license holders? This covers 809-815MHz.  Not sure if using the expansion band or guard band would be possible (815-817MHz), though that is largely where SoLinc sits now?  Do we know if Southern Linc has any intentions to participate in these auctions and widen their license holidings?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, red_dog007 said:

https://transition.fcc.gov/pshs/docs/T-Band_FactSheet_July2016.pdf

Possibly 42MHz added for cellular from 470-512MHz here? Would this be TDD?

Hard to say. There isn't much duplex spacing so I'd say possibly although not certainly. I wouldn't be surprised if the lower and upper part of the T-band were FDD and there were non-paired chunks of spectrum inbetween. This is how the lower 700 MHz band is set up. For those unfamiliar, see here:

700-MHz-Blocks-_v10.png

4 hours ago, red_dog007 said:

httpshttps://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-19-330A1.pdf

After 2024, does this mean that any licenses remaining can be purchased and utilized for cellular?  At this time, would Sprint be able to purchases licenses from any PS or CI license holders? This covers 809-815MHz.  Not sure if using the expansion band or guard band would be possible (815-817MHz), though that is largely where SoLinc sits now?  Do we know if Southern Linc has any intentions to participate in these auctions and widen their license holidings?

I'm not sure if Sprint will be able to pick up spectrum here. Maybe someone else more knowledgeable can chime in here. 

SoLINC operates directly below Sprint, in the expansion band. Their 1.4 MHz LTE carrier is centered at 816.6/861.6 MHz. If they are interested in acquiring licenses, it will only be in their limited coverage area. As of today, they haven't made any public statements regarding acquiring spectrum.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So they could still do three blocks off that, beings that it would be 5MHz blocks instead of 6.  It would be just like Lower 700MHz except with 1MHz guards on both sides maybe. Or even like 600MHz, 10/11MHz in the middle of guard band.

Looking at it, why does 700L allow for 12x12 as usable DL spectrum between the links, but the 600MHz guard band is just that, guard band. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is some 900MHz for mobile broadband, maybe just for CI.  Would be a 3x3 block at 897.5-900.5 / 936.5-939.6 initially between reallocation of 896-901 / 935-940.  If future need warranted, they have the option to add a second 1.4x1.4 channel.

This possible 10MHz for LTE would put this in LTE Band 8. 

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-356298A1.pdf

 

IIRC Sprint owned 3x3MHz in 900MHz range.  What frequencies was that at?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
On 5/12/2019 at 10:09 AM, red_dog007 said:

Here is some 900MHz for mobile broadband, maybe just for CI.  Would be a 3x3 block at 897.5-900.5 / 936.5-939.6 initially between reallocation of 896-901 / 935-940.  If future need warranted, they have the option to add a second 1.4x1.4 channel.

This possible 10MHz for LTE would put this in LTE Band 8. 

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-356298A1.pdf

 

IIRC Sprint owned 3x3MHz in 900MHz range.  What frequencies was that at?

That 900 MHz spectrum is owned by pdvWireless. That is the 3x3 MHz block of 900 MHz spectrum Sprint sold off. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

They should also take away 450-470 and combine it with the 470-512 spectrum. Public safety LMR spectrum allocations are available in the 700 and 800MHz bands. Plus the LTE band at 700Mhz.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bigsnake49 said:

They should also take away 450-470 and combine it with the 470-512 spectrum. Public safety LMR spectrum allocations are available in the 700 and 800MHz bands. Plus the LTE band at 700Mhz.

What a nightmare that would be.  In multiple ways.  Tons of non-public safety operations are in 450-470.   Every one of those cheapo walkie-talkies that you see at Wal-Mart is in 450-470, so the spectrum would be swimming in interference from them for years.  On top of that, only certain channels from 470-512 aren't used by TV stations in fewer than a dozen markets.  And on top of that, in the most congested markets, 700 and 800 are full, if you believe the public safety folks.

- Trip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Trip said:

What a nightmare that would be.  In multiple ways.  Tons of non-public safety operations are in 450-470.   Every one of those cheapo walkie-talkies that you see at Wal-Mart is in 450-470, so the spectrum would be swimming in interference from them for years.  On top of that, only certain channels from 470-512 aren't used by TV stations in fewer than a dozen markets.  And on top of that, in the most congested markets, 700 and 800 are full, if you believe the public safety folks.

- Trip

Like I would care about the cheap walkie talkies. The 700Mhz public safety band is quite empty. The problem with public safety networks is that they are build with very few towers at high power which limits channel reuse. If they actually turned down the power a bit and used more towers they will have a lot more capacity. Plus PS people just like to complain. I know, I worked with them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, bigsnake49 said:

Like I would care about the cheap walkie talkies. The 700Mhz public safety band is quite empty. The problem with public safety networks is that they are build with very few towers at high power which limits channel reuse. If they actually turned down the power a bit and used more towers they will have a lot more capacity. Plus PS people just like to complain. I know, I worked with them.

The cheap walkie-talkies are usually unregistered and would cause interference when used.  While you may not care, I find that wireless carriers do tend to care when there is interference in their spectrum.

I don't disagree with you on public safety, though the question is "who pays for more density?"  Adding sites adds cost, and I'm not clear who would pay for this massive overhaul of public safety, both moving from 450-512 and within 700/800.

You didn't address the non-public safety entities in the band.  There are quite a few of them.

And neither of us touched the issue of the antennas not fitting in a typical cell phone.  Further, I'm not sure who would buy this spectrum even if it were to be made available.

- Trip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Trip said:

The cheap walkie-talkies are usually unregistered and would cause interference when used.  While you may not care, I find that wireless carriers do tend to care when there is interference in their spectrum.

I don't disagree with you on public safety, though the question is "who pays for more density?"  Adding sites adds cost, and I'm not clear who would pay for this massive overhaul of public safety, both moving from 450-512 and within 700/800.

You didn't address the non-public safety entities in the band.  There are quite a few of them.

And neither of us touched the issue of the antennas not fitting in a typical cell phone.  Further, I'm not sure who would buy this spectrum even if it were to be made available.

- Trip

Well it is always about the money, isn't it? If you don't want overcrowded channels, reuse them. There is a small town next to mine that has twice as many policemen and firemen as my own. Same crime rates and populations and all. Hell both towns could probably be served much better by the sheriffs office but no they need their own police departments and fire depts and of course their own radio networks. 

I went to college in the 70s and I took an antenna course. The stuff that they use for antennas nowadays totally amaze me. This isn't the dipole, full length antennas of the 70s. Yes you may not be able to do a M-MIMO antenna of a small size in the 450 band but I was surprised that you can to a 4x4 in the 700 and 600Mhz bands.

As far as the TV channels are concerned let the feds buy them out of their slots and recover the funds from the auction or repack them where you have space.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • large.unreadcontent.png.6ef00db54e758d06

  • gallery_1_23_9202.png

  • Posts

    • Looks like there's a slightly taller building going up next door to where the decommissioned site used to be. Taking a look at StreetView, T-Mobile likely decommissioned the site because the east facing sector would blocked by the new building. If I had to guess, T-Mobile has already agreed to move to the roof of the new building and is just waiting for it to be completed to install the site there. What they should've done is just rearrange the sectors in the meantime but it seems like T-Mobile just bit the bullet and decommed the tower in the short term. — — — — — A permit was issued for a Sprint conversion at 150 Prospect Park West, finally filling in what is T-Mobile's largest coverage gap in Park Slope. Verizon is collocated on that building and AT&T has placed small cells along Prospect Park West to fill in coverage there while T-Mobile struggled using two sites, one at Grand Army Plaza at the far north and another at Bartel Pritchard Square to the far south.  
    • Yep, you can see the site was taken down between Aug 2022 and Apr 2023.
    • Verizon site at Woodbury Commons finally got C-band. I'm seeing upwards of 600Mbps there, a massive improvement over the <1Mbps I used to see. LTE is now at 10-20Mbps which is significantly better than before where speed tests would often fail. My only complaint is that C-band is super inconsistent. Not sure if it's a software issue but sometimes I'm connected to it and get the 600Mbps speeds previously mentioned and other times I connect and only see 15Mbps. Seems like whatever load balancing the network is trying to do is still shoving a ton of people to LTE, even in conditions where I have a strong C-band signal.  — — — — — You're absolutely right. The site on top of Bais Sarah Hall at 6101 16th Ave got decommissioned. Sad that they haven't installed a new site to fill in that coverage gap.  — — — — — In other news a carrier reached out to the board of my grandmother's building in Brooklyn about installing antennas on top of it so she called me today because she knows I map cell towers and she said a lot of people in her building, especially the folks on the upper floors, are worried about the health effects lol. I asked her if she knew what carrier it would be but she said she doesn't know. A quick glance at Cellmapper tells me it's either Dish or AT&T since Verizon and T-Mobile both have sites within a two block radius of her building but AT&T barely builds new sites so I'm leaning Dish. They're asking for a 25-year lease with an option to renegotiate the lease after 10-years. The board of her co-op said that if they do it, maintenance fees will go down since they'll be offset by the rent that the carrier would be paying them. She said she already voted in favor of it but she thinks that a lot of the older people in her building are against it.
    • Galaxy S7 FE most certainly doesn't have the same level of NR CA (if at all), it also looks like it doesn't have SA NR, so it's is inherently going to be much slower since most of the spectrum is now focused on NR rather than LTE. It's likely the same generation radio as the S21 (or maybe S20). Having trouble finding which it would be.
    • T-Mobile seems to be paying close attention to how much of B2 they refarm for NR, as on this trip down to South Padre Island I saw both 20x20 n25 and 20x20 B2 (but not both simultaneously) at various points on the trip. At South Padre itself, seems like someone else has 2.5 GHz licensed so the n41 setup here is 20+80 MHz. Speeds are still decent, but VZW has 100+60 MHz n77 live (and AT&T has some 80+40).
  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...