AT&T LTE and Network Discussion

[mdob07]

On 10/7/2019 at 9:28 PM, mdob07 said:

I noticed over the weekend that one of my local AT&T sites is getting all new antennas and radios as part of the ongoing upgrades. Most sites are just getting an additional antenna added and some radio upgrades, I'm not sure why this one is getting the rip and replace treatment. Those are old Nextel antennas still mounted on the top rack. The new pictures were taken from about 1/8 away as the crew was still working in the yard tonight. Once they finish up and move on I'll get some better pictures. This looks to be using a new or at least different Ericsson radio model that in use else where around here currently. 

Old Setup:

https://imgur.com/U0ydQeP

https://imgur.com/Zf7AEpR

https://imgur.com/rHxL5rY

https://imgur.com/q5TQrMj

https://imgur.com/eu539cY

New Setup:

https://imgur.com/Dovlp2n

https://imgur.com/PJ96vhZ

https://imgur.com/E1NDqu9

Site is finally finished up. Lighting wasn't the best this afternoon but I was able to get some decent pictures. I'm pretty sure the two outer antennas are Commscope NNH4-65A-R6s, 12 ports each, plus 4 ports on the middle antenna. This site is south of Louisville in Bullitt county so the spectrum portfolio is slightly different. When this site is fully up and running it should have:

• B2 10x10
• B2 5x5
• B2 5x5
• B4 10x10
• B4 5x5 
• B5 5x5
• B12 10x10
• B14 10x10
• B30 5x5
• B66 10x10
• And possibly 5x0 B29

Commscope NNH4-65A-R6: https://www.commscope.com/catalog/antennas/product_details.aspx?id=46331

[mdob07]

Does anybody know what previously was using AWS-3 spectrum before it was opened up for cellular traffic? AT&T owns 10x10 J block around here but In Louisville it is still only used as SCC in CA. Its been active as SCC since I switched to AT&T in April of 2018. Once you get away from Louisville it is active as PCC as well. I'm wondering if something is still being migrated off of the UL 1770-1780 MHz range. Here is a map of cellmapper data filtered to AWS-3, I circled Louisville in red as its hard to make it out on the map. Anybody have any ideas? 

[belusnecropolis]

59 minutes ago, mdob07 said:

Does anybody know what previously was using AWS-3 spectrum before it was opened up for cellular traffic?

https://www.ntia.doc.gov/other-publication/2018/transition-plans-and-transition-data-1755-1780-mhz-band

 

Transition Plans and Transition Data for the 1755 – 1780 MHz Band

 

Topics:

• Spectrum Management
• AWS-3 Transition

 

Date: 

October 24, 2018

Transition Plans

• Department of Commerce  — xlsx | pdf —
• Department of Defense (DoD)
  • U.S. Air Force — xlsx | pdf —
  • U.S. Army — xlsx | pdf —
  • U.S. Navy and U.S. Marine Corps — xslx | pdf —
  • Defense Spectrum Organization — xlsx | pdf —
• Department of Energy  — xlsx | pdf —  
• Department of Homeland Security  — xlsx | pdf —
• Department of Housing and Urban Development  — xlsx | pdf —  
• Department of the Interior
  • U.S. Geological Survey  — xlsx | pdf —  
  • National Park Service  — xlsx | pdf —
• Department of Justice  — xlsx | pdf —  
• Department of Transportation  — xlsx | pdf —
• Department of Veterans Affairs  — xlsx | pdf —
• National Aeronautics and Space Administration  — xlsx | pdf —
• U.S. Capitol Police  — xlsx | pdf —
• U.S. Agency for International Development  — xlsx | pdf —
• U.S. Treasury  — xlsx | pdf —

Bureaucrats mostly. 

 

[mdob07]

11 minutes ago, belusnecropolis said:

https://www.ntia.doc.gov/other-publication/2018/transition-plans-and-transition-data-1755-1780-mhz-band

Looking at the status of transition spreadsheet, I see 6 entries for Army UAS in KY. Army Ft Knox is just south of Louisville, and is pretty much centered in the dead zone on the cellmapper map data. Transition due date is 4/30/2020. I wonder if they'll complete early and release the spectrum before that date or drag it out to the end? I haven't seen TMO fire up any of their AWS-3 here either, I'm guessing they're stuck waiting also.

[belusnecropolis]

1 minute ago, mdob07 said:

Looking at the status of transition spreadsheet, I see 6 entries for Army UAS in KY. Army Ft Knox is just south of Louisville, and is pretty much centered in the dead zone on the cellmapper map data. Transition due date is 4/30/2020. 

Neat!

 

1 minute ago, mdob07 said:

I wonder if they'll complete early and release the spectrum before that date or drag it out to the end?

Good question.Maybe they have some incentive going but it seems like they are patient with this rolling out.

 

2 minutes ago, mdob07 said:

I haven't seen TMO fire up any of their AWS-3 here either, I'm guessing they're stuck waiting also.

I found it on one site here and it was PCC. I was at the country music festival this summer, since 40% of the attendance was cops or feds; I watched for COWs, extra channels and found it. Naturally it was crushed at 5MHz / 30k people. 

[belusnecropolis]

Just checked muh notes, logs and looks like AT&T has it live here as well on a few modernized sites as SCC.

[red_dog007]

Is there a coverage map for just AT&T 3G?

[mdob07]

Pretty interesting. Guessing they will sacrifice their 5x5 LTE carrier since they still have 5x5 HSPA active also. I dont think theres very many if any places where they hold both A and B cellular licenses. There is also a link to some 5G maps in the article.

https://www.fiercewireless.com/5g/at-t-to-launch-5g-for-consumers-using-low-band-850-mhz-spectrum

[red_dog007]

From some other articles I read it makes it sound like Mansfield said/implied they are refarming 3G in 850MHz for this initial rollout.  

I am not sure how much total spectrum they are generally using for 3G across 850/1900 but with the shutdown approaching they might just go to 1900 only and even in some places shut it down early if they lack 850.

Beings that they have B14 now, it would be pretty sweet if they did 10x10 5G and then 1.4x1.4 LTE on 850.

[Tengen31]

Pretty interesting. Guessing they will sacrifice their 5x5 LTE carrier since they still have 5x5 HSPA active also. I dont think theres very many if any places where they hold both A and B cellular licenses. There is also a link to some 5G maps in the article.
https://www.fiercewireless.com/5g/at-t-to-launch-5g-for-consumers-using-low-band-850-mhz-spectrum

They hold both in Orlando and couple other places.

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[danlodish345]

They hold both in Orlando and couple other places.

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Over here ATT has 850 LTE and hspa active...its popping up through out NJ.

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[RAvirani]

6 hours ago, red_dog007 said:

From some other articles I read it makes it sound like Mansfield said/implied they are refarming 3G in 850MHz for this initial rollout.  

I was under the impression they planned to run 5x5 UMTS/HSPA and 5x5 NR. Whether that meant refarming LTE or refarming UMTS/HSPA depends on what's currently live in each market. 

[Brad The Beast]

On 11/24/2019 at 3:42 PM, RAvirani said:

I was under the impression they planned to run 5x5 UMTS/HSPA and 5x5 NR. Whether that meant refarming LTE or refarming UMTS/HSPA depends on what's currently live in each market. 

If they refarmed UMTS/HSPA they would screw T-Mobile since T-Mo roams on ATT HSPA. 

[danlodish345]

If they refarmed UMTS/HSPA they would screw T-Mobile since T-Mo roams on ATT HSPA. 

Well T-Mobile would have to ink a new agreement with AT&T.

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[red_dog007]

On 11/24/2019 at 4:42 PM, RAvirani said:

I was under the impression they planned to run 5x5 UMTS/HSPA and 5x5 NR. Whether that meant refarming LTE or refarming UMTS/HSPA depends on what's currently live in each market. 

Ah. The article I read, and to which others mentioned as well, https://www.mobileworldlive.com/devices/news-devices/att-samsung-team-on-sub-6ghz-5g-smartphone/ stats: 

"Mansfield noted AT&T’s 3G traffic is increasingly moving to LTE, clearing the way for AT&T to reuse its legacy 850MHz and 1900MHz spectrum for 5G"

I initially took this as 3G will get refarmed for 5G.  But rereading it, it could just mean that they are using 850/1900 first to deploy 5G. It would be nice to have a direct quote from Mansfield from this event. 

And if they refarm 3G or LTE, at least in 850MHz, there is enough room to keep all three technologies still.  

[mdob07]

Here in my area it appears they have turned off the 5x5 B5 LTE carrier. HSPA still active on 850MHz. Similar reports on HoFo from different areas.

[mdob07]

Brand new site just went up not far from my house that I'm 99.999% sure is AT&T. This is the first completely new site I've seen them add since I starting tracking this area about 2 years ago. For some reason the SE sector has 3 antennas, while the other 2 sectors have 2. I couldn't get a picture of it but the ground equipment here is much different than the usual AT&T huts. Looks more like a tall metal garden shed. I'm curious to see what GCIs they use for this site, everything in this area begins with 024-027. Assuming it will be a two GCI site like all of the other upgraded sites.

[mdob07]

Brand new site just went up not far from my house that I'm 99.999% sure is AT&T. This is the first completely new site I've seen them add since I starting tracking this area about 2 years ago. For some reason the SE sector has 3 antennas, while the other 2 sectors have 2. I couldn't get a picture of it but the ground equipment here is much different than the usual AT&T huts. Looks more like a tall metal garden shed. I'm curious to see what GCIs they use for this site, everything in this area begins with 024-027. Assuming it will be a two GCI site like all of the other upgraded sites.

Found a couple more new sites that are live out by Taylorsville KY. Looks like rural expansion is definitely in progress. Before I barely had signal out at my aunts house. Looks like this site is LTE only. Sprint and T-Mobile are non-existent here, and Verizon/ Bluegrass is fringe B13 that's so overloaded its unusable.

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[danlodish345]

Found a couple more new sites that are live out by Taylorsville KY. Looks like rural expansion is definitely in progress. Before I barely had signal out at my aunts house. Looks like this site is LTE only. Sprint and T-Mobile are non-existent here, and Verizon/ Bluegrass is fringe B13 that's so overloaded its unusable.

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AT&T fake 5G service

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[mdob07]

On 11/27/2019 at 8:19 PM, mdob07 said:

Brand new site just went up not far from my house that I'm 99.999% sure is AT&T. This is the first completely new site I've seen them add since I starting tracking this area about 2 years ago. For some reason the SE sector has 3 antennas, while the other 2 sectors have 2. I couldn't get a picture of it but the ground equipment here is much different than the usual AT&T huts. Looks more like a tall metal garden shed. I'm curious to see what GCIs they use for this site, everything in this area begins with 024-027. Assuming it will be a two GCI site like all of the other upgraded sites.

This site went live this week, less than a month after being installed. All bands appear to be active other than B5 since it's now being used for NR here. They already have it meshed well with the surrounding macro sites. I'm noticing on these new sites they seem to be strictly B12 and B66, no MFBI for B4 and B17 phones.

[Sprke]

On 12/21/2019 at 3:50 AM, mdob07 said:

This site went live this week, less than a month after being installed. All bands appear to be active other than B5 since it's now being used for NR here. They already have it meshed well with the surrounding macro sites. I'm noticing on these new sites they seem to be strictly B12 and B66, no MFBI for B4 and B17 phones.

Interested in knowing why there is 3 panels on one sector? What is that 3rd panel adding?

[belusnecropolis]

On 12/21/2019 at 4:50 AM, mdob07 said:

This site went live this week, less than a month after being installed. All bands appear to be active other than B5 since it's now being used for NR here. They already have it meshed well with the surrounding macro sites. I'm noticing on these new sites they seem to be strictly B12 and B66, no MFBI for B4 and B17 phones.

Are you still seeing 3G from these sites, and what bandwidth and frequency are they using?

[red_dog007]

I didn't have proper device to test, but is this AT&T?

[mdob07]

27 minutes ago, red_dog007 said:

I didn't have proper device to test, but is this AT&T?

Equipment can vary region to region, but I've never seen a single antenna per sector site with AT&T. If it's an old site it could possible by something like B2/B12 only with 2x2 on each. Around here the legacy equipment always has it's own antenna separate from the LTE antennas and radios.

All of the new sites and rebuilds around here are using dual 12 port antennas. It takes a lot of ports to go 4x4 on multiple bands. I've even seen some 8 port ericsson radios being used that I assume are being used as dual mode 4x4. 

[mdob07]

5 hours ago, red_dog007 said:

I didn't have proper device to test, but is this AT&T?

 

 

4 hours ago, mdob07 said:

Equipment can vary region to region, but I've never seen a single antenna per sector site with AT&T. If it's an old site it could possible by something like B2/B12 only with 2x2 on each. Around here the legacy equipment always has it's own antenna separate from the LTE antennas and radios.

All of the new sites and rebuilds around here are using dual 12 port antennas. It takes a lot of ports to go 4x4 on multiple bands. I've even seen some 8 port ericsson radios being used that I assume are being used as dual mode 4x4. 

Well, looks like I'm eating my works. It dawned on me on my drive home from work that I do have 2 AT&T sites around here with a single antenna per sector. I believe both are fairly new sites but pre-FirstNet, and I'm also pretty sure these are LTE only, but I'd have to test to confirm.

AT&T is bottom rack on this site, Sprint is on top.

The other site: