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bigsnake49

Wild speculation about Dish

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On 12/6/2017 at 4:16 AM, Trip said:

If 700 isn't low-band, then other than 600 (which they also hold), what is?  FM?  Shortwave?  Except for 600, there's nothing lower than 700 even licensed to cell companies.

In mobile, low/mid/high band is defined by uplink, not downlink.  Lower 700 MHz D/E block band 29 has no uplink.

AJ

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On 12/6/2017 at 10:13 AM, bigsnake49 said:

It could be used for uplink with a midband downlink.

No.  Lower 700 MHz D/E block unpaired spectrum cannot not be used as uplink, only as supplemental downlink.  Look at the band plan.  You cannot shove uplink spectrum in the duplex gap between uplink and downlink.

AJ

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5 hours ago, bigsnake49 said:

I have also advocated using Band D&E as uplink.

Again, for technical reasons, that uplink is not going to happen.  The Lower 700 MHz D/E blocks were licensed as unpaired broadcast spectrum -- first UHF TV, later mobile broadcaset -- and that basically is how they shall remain.

AJ

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20 hours ago, lilotimz said:

Separation required for sub 1 ghz frequencies is troublesome. It's why low band inter and intraband CA has not been implemented and 4x4 MIMO on sub 1ghz frequencies at UE level is almost impossible.  

Heck it's almost impossible at the site level. 

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6 minutes ago, bigsnake49 said:

Heck it's almost impossible at the site level. 

Not exactly impossible.  Verizon and T-Mobile both have widespread lowband 4x2 MIMO deployments in the Seattle area....

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25 minutes ago, RAvirani said:

Not exactly impossible.  Verizon and T-Mobile both have widespread lowband 4x2 MIMO deployments in the Seattle area....

Lots of compromises to achieve it. Are you sure that those are 4x2 low frequency antennas and not mid frequency? 

Edited by bigsnake49

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1 hour ago, bigsnake49 said:

Lots of compromises to achieve it. Are you sure that those are 4x2 low frequency antennas and not mid frequency? 

Yes 4x2 is live on both low and mid bands for both providers.

We’re seeing mostly 4x2 MIMO on T-Mobile’s 600 MHz towers that are coming up as well. 

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Yes 4x2 is live on both low and mid bands for both providers.
We’re seeing mostly 4x2 MIMO on T-Mobile’s 600 MHz towers that are coming up as well. 
All 600 MHz equipment are 4x4 radios (4x2 at UE level).

Att and Verizon and in some siteareas Tmobile they're retrofitting sites to 4x4 eNB setups on 700 and 800mhz by using two lowband antennas + two sub 1ghz radios.



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13 minutes ago, lilotimz said:

All 600 MHz equipment are 4x4 radios (4x2 at UE level).

Att and Verizon and in some siteareas Tmobile they're retrofitting sites to 4x4 eNB setups on 700 and 800mhz by using two lowband antennas + two sub 1ghz radios.



Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 

I wonder how they're getting around the isolation/correlation problem at the low bands. Antenna design has totally changed since I took the class :).

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Posted (edited)

Sorry to resurrect an old thread. But have some news for the horse's (ass, as in donkey) mouth. Charlie Ergen, at the Connect(X) conference gave a few details about their upcoming network:

1. It will cost approximately $10B which is what a brand-new nationwide network costs, which leads one to believe they will not partner with anyone else

2. They have 654 days to deploy Block H spectrum 

3. The network will follow the NB-IoT standard and then 5G-IoT standard when that becomes available

4. It will be heavily virtualized with network slicing

5. It will be designed not for smartphones (longer data sessions) but for the shorter data sessions of IoT

6. They don't have the money right now so they operate like a startup

For all the handwaving, don't be surprised if they don't sell network capacity to non-IoT (say MVNO's) at some point.

 

https://www.fiercewireless.com/5g/ergen-s-5g-buildout-ambitions-for-dish-could-pass-10b

Edited by bigsnake49

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That's pretty cool.  So will spend $1.5~$3billion through 2020 on this network.  That will be enough to meet H-Block buildout deadlines? Is that for 30% pop buildout or 70%?

I'm glad they are going at it a lone.  Would be cool if they end up a nationwide carrier through their own brand name or an MVNO. I'd imagine once their network gets fairly solid, possibly with the help of roaming agreements, that they will end up directly in the phone business even if they just offer the service to TV customers.  It's a hemorrhaging business (traditional TV service that is) and the power of bundling will help out greatly I'm sure. 

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58 minutes ago, red_dog007 said:

That's pretty cool.  So will spend $1.5~$3billion through 2020 on this network.  That will be enough to meet H-Block buildout deadlines? Is that for 30% pop buildout or 70%?

I'm glad they are going at it a lone.  Would be cool if they end up a nationwide carrier through their own brand name or an MVNO. I'd imagine once their network gets fairly solid, possibly with the help of roaming agreements, that they will end up directly in the phone business even if they just offer the service to TV customers.  It's a hemorrhaging business (traditional TV service that is) and the power of bundling will help out greatly I'm sure. 

It's the 70% buildout deadline.

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The FCC is asking Dish for detail plans on their buildout:

The head of the FCC’s wireless bureau fired a wide range of questions at Dish Network about the carrier’s wireless network buildout plans. Importantly, the FCC’s Donald Stockdale stated that “I am contacting you to request updates and more detailed information on your buildout plans for the 53 megahertz of low- and mid-band spectrum that is apparently lying fallow in these bands.”

The implication of Stockdale’s questions is that the FCC may begin to take action against Dish for collecting spectrum licenses but not using them. In his letter to Dish, Stockdale noted that Dish told the FCC earlier this year that it had not met the applicable interim construction deadline for its AWS-4 licenses, its 700 MHz Lower E Block licenses and its H Block licenses.

 

As a result, Stockdale asked Dish to provide a wide range of specifics about how exactly it will build out a wireless network using its vast spectrum holdings. Stockdale asked for details on Dish’s buildout plans, technology choices, coverage area plans, handset strategies, and any additional delays that the company may encounter as it runs up against the FCC’s spectrum license buildout requirements.

https://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/fcc-wireless-chief-peppers-dish-wireless-network-buildout-questions

 

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Posted (edited)

As far as Dish implementing NB-IoT on their spectrum, here's an article on the poor economics of NB-IoT:

https://www.fiercewireless.com/iot/editor-s-corner-unenviable-economics-dish-s-nb-iot-plans

From the article:

T-Mobile launched its own nationwide NB-IoT network this week. As T-Mobile’s Dave Mayo explained, the network currently covers 2.1 million square miles and 320 million POPs, and offers real-world download and upload speeds of around 15 Kbps.

 

And how much is T-Mobile charging for NB-IoT services? That would be $6 a year for up to 12 MB per connected device, which T-Mobile has said is roughly one-tenth the cost of Verizon’s Cat-M plans for IoT devices.

Edited by bigsnake49

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