4k Televisions

[WiWavelength]

Check off angle viewing on the Samsung sets.  A lot may have changed since I seriously shopped LCD several years ago, but Samsung used mostly PVA panels, while LG used mostly IPS panels.  In a hotel environment, I would think that off angle viewing would be more important than contrast.

 

AJ

[richy]

Check off angle viewing on the Samsung sets.  A lot may have changed since I seriously shopped LCD several years ago, but Samsung used mostly PVA panels, while LG used mostly IPS panels.  In a hotel environment, would think that off angle viewing would be more important than contrast.

 

AJ

 

Thanks, that didn't seem to be an issue but I'll check again. The in room sets are on mounts that can move so in rooms they can be re positioned. Our biggest criteria is reliability which was a nightmare with the LG units.  

[Arysyn]

Thanks, that didn't seem to be an issue but I'll check again. The in room sets are on mounts that can move so in rooms they can be re positioned. Our biggest criteria is reliability which was a nightmare with the LG units.

I think its really neat you run a hotel, richy. I've always wanted to do that also, from architecture and design to the day by day operations. Sadly, my circumstances are such it won't be able to happen, but its still something I'm interested in.

 

Anyways, I imagine choosing tvs is a big decision in running a hotel. Most of the tvs I've seen in hotels have been LG. Some others I've seen though have been Westinghouse and Toshiba. Although, mostly LG. I'd of course spoil hotel guests with the 65"-inch Sony Z9D and stock 3D glasses on request behind the desk with an upcharge.

[Arysyn]

Alright, the decision has been made.

 

While my mother was speaking with managers about the delivery arrangements of the new tv, along with the pickup arrangements of the old tv, the LG C6P, I stayed sitting in one of the Bose sound rooms which feature the Samsung Q8C, one level below the slightly brighter flagship, the Samsung Q9F.

 

I was considering getting the Samsung Q8C or the Q9F for the few advantages they have, but after some time sitting around watching a movie using the picture settings I customized, I came to the realization this was not even close to the picture quality of the Sony Z9D and the Sony A1E.

 

Both of the Sony tvs have a much more 3D-like image quality to the 2D image sources I viewed, which I also customized the settings on the Sony tvs as I did on the Samsung Q8C. The two Sony tvs also had very good viewing angles. Despite the A1E OLED having better viewing angles than the Z9D LED LCD, the viewing angles on the Z9D were much better than what has been reported in online articles about it.

 

The decision than got down to the physical size of the two televisions. My mother expressed concerns about the weight of the Z9D, that only is available in the starting size of 65"-inches, which is 10"-inches larger and over 10lbs heavier than the A1E. She liked the images of both tvs, but seems to have preferred the A1E, as it does have some picture advantages over the very good, but much larger Z9D.

 

Anyways, the decision ultimately was made for... the A1E.

[nexgencpu]

OLED or go home at this point!

 

 

[Arysyn]

OLED or go home at this point!

Well, that is what I ended up getting, the OLED Sony A1E.

 

When considering all things, one of the greatest advantages to OLED, is the concept of lighting. Granted, technology does need to go through stages in its advancement, but when thinking about logic and practicality, it doesn't make sense to use backlighting when you have picture elements that can provide plenty of light on their own, or so it should.

 

Through all of this research I've done the past few days in learning more than I did during this time than I did throughout middle and high school, I began to think of a possibility that could happen with television technology in the next few years that will seem more ridiculous than what many people have been saying about Samsung's purposes and reasons for its QLED branding decisions.

 

Essentially, people are saying they had expected Samsung to unveil a truly competitive product to compete against OLED, by having a television using emissive QLED, which emit its own light similar to that of OLED, but at much brighter levels than OLED. Instead, Samsung is using a QLED film and Edge-lit backlighting system still based on LCD.

 

When I was sitting around looking at a movie playing on the Samsung QLED Q8C for over an hour at Abt yesterday, I noticed how "flat" the image appeared. Sure, it was colorful, especially seeing how grey the blacks appeared, caused by the smokiness appearance of the display's backlights. Everything looked like it was trapped inside the television stuck in an extreme fog, which no matter what I changed the setting to while going through the features using the remote.

 

Compared with OLED, well, there is no comparison. OLED is much better than QLED. Now, if only QLED was the emissive type, then yes, it likely would be better than OLED. However, what I got to thinking, is if, and I'm not endorsing/supporting this, the OLED-supporting companies attempt to create a hybrid OLED, using Edge-lit backlighting with OLED, to get the brightness up, while also minimizing image retention issues that become more risky the higher the brightness levels become.

 

Again, I don't really like that idea, but it is something that might be used eventually to compete against emissive QLED.

[Deval]

We currently have about 280 sets (hotel) which I am in the process of replacing. We used some Toshiba but mostly LG in the past but I am all but set on Samsung this time. Most will be 1080p  although I have purchased some 4k sets already (65 inch LED) for use in presentations \ sporting events etc and I was really impressed. I initially went to costco and got about 6 different sets and played with them. The in room sets are different from what you would buy in the store (the panel is the same, the firmware is different to support different features). 

 

Our experience with LG was pretty poor, very high failure rate (never the panels, always the electronics). I'm hoping the samsungs will be different. I've had about 20 of them for 6 months with zero issues. While it is highly subjective I love the picture on the Samsungs, contrast, upscaling, saturation etc.

 

Richy, 

 

I would recommend reaching out to Samsung directly for hotel displays. PM me if you want for more information.

[Arysyn]

Quick update,

 

I had an issue getting the table I was going to get for my television, the Sony A1E. I'm getting a different table I found, however, the A1E won't fit within the width of the new table.. So, I'm getting the Sony Z9D instead.

 

I was at Abt today, and they moved the flagship Sony Z9D and A1E on top of each other right next to the Samsung flagship, the Q9F. This was a great decision by Abt to place these televisions where they did. I was able to get a very good comparison of the televisions, much better than in the past.

 

The Samsung Q9F was my least favorite, as the image had no "pop", no depth to it either, as though its just flat within the screen. Not good.

 

The Sony A1E has a more cinematic appearance to the imaging than the Z9D, which may be better for watching movies, if the smoothness of the darker colors is important to you. However, if you like "pop" and depth to the image, with bright, crisp colors, the Z9D is better. I understand why Sony still considers the Z9D as their flagship.

[Arysyn]

AJ, if you read this, I think you may be right when you mentioned the possibility of Sony's A1E OLED being a 2016 display panel. While the reports I've read online say otherwise, the individual reviews of the television's panel from LG, nothing to do with Sony's processing, show the panel performance being worse than what LG has in their 2017 OLED tv models. Unless LG is giving Sony inferior panels, though I'm not sure how Sony would be comfortable accepting this and having that on the record.

 

There is a higher rate of Image Retention in the Sony A1E, vs the LG C7, and some other issues I've read on AVS forum that show differences in the panel. There also are processing differences, but that isn't the only thing, and to some, not the aspect that matters to them when comparison shopping.

 

I'm kinda glad my table shopping changed plans and I'm getting the one now that won't fit the A1E, but will the Z9D. OLED may take a year or two, in order to resolce its issues from what I've been reading it seems.

[Arysyn]

Update for AJ -

 

I concede you seem to have been correct about the A1e. A member of AVSforum named jrref wrote this :

 

"Funny story. I was at my local BB and decided to take a look at the Magnolia display. There I saw the A1 and the E7. Of course playing different content but the sales person came over and proceeded to tell me that the Sony has a LG OLED panel but it is last years 2016 panel vs the new 2017 panel on the E7 He then went on to say that the Sony had better picture processing despite the older panel"

[red_dog007]

FYI, price wise, this is arguably the worst time of the year to be shopping for a current model year TV.  CES 2017 TVs just now are hitting the floor -- at MSRP.

 

AJ

It is actually a great time to be buying 2016 models if you can find them.  Especially if you aren't going to be buying high end truely new models coming 2017.  Samsung's MU series is largely just a 2017 rebadge. The deals are as good/better than BlackFriday. 

 

Everyone is clearing out 2016 stock for 2017.  Just this last weekend on slickdeals the 55KU6300 was on sale for $185 at Walmart.  The replacing MU is $800.  The 40KU6300 was found so often for $250, the replacing MU is on "sale" for $450.  

[red_dog007]

Update for AJ -

 

I concede you seem to have been correct about the A1e. A member of AVSforum named jrref wrote this :

 

"Funny story. I was at my local BB and decided to take a look at the Magnolia display. There I saw the A1 and the E7. Of course playing different content but the sales person came over and proceeded to tell me that the Sony has a LG OLED panel but it is last years 2016 panel vs the new 2017 panel on the E7 He then went on to say that the Sony had better picture processing despite the older panel"

But, does LG do firmware upgrades.  Firmware upgrades seem to be a bit more popular from OEMs these days, and they can help greatly.  It is a new panel, if one could trust LG to release a firmware upgrade later on, that set could potentially be better than last years display. It's a gamble for sure when it comes to that. But I have at least noticed for rtings that newer firmware upgrades is helping a lot with improving latency. 

[Arysyn]

Hi red_dog,

 

The LG C6 got regular firmware updates from LG, though I can't say for sure about that regarding the other models.

 

I ended up not getting the A1E for reasons relating to the extended warranty not covering the possibility of the panel breaking from the kickstand. Its a very long story I'll summarize (I finally thought of that word I was struggling to remember a bit ago when writing another post).

 

An official Sony representative I talked with at Abt a few days ago, confirmed what other Abt employees were telling me about the A1E being "fragile" in the connections between the panel and the kickstand, and that it could break if I moved the television the way I planned to do with placing the television on my table. So now, I'm waiting for my mother to speak with someone about an arrangement I ought to find out more about later on. If that doesn't sound likely to happen, I'll get a new 2017 FALD tv set by TCL for this year, and keep it until next year when the 2018 OLED tvs are available.

 

At that point, I'll be able to see if the 2018 OLED tvs really have, or don't have, the image retention prevention/elimination technologies I've read about that say it will.

[red_dog007]

Did you say TLC?

 

[Arysyn]

Did you say TLC?

 

Alot of people call the company that, and I don't blame them, as it does sound similar. It is a Chinese company that is really pushing for added competition in the less expensive tv space with specifications on par with much more expensive televisions.

 

I have some good news of my own tv search. I had some difficulty earlier with the store I got the defective image retention-prone tv at, but we negotiated on a Samsung tv with an amazing deal I'll post about here next week if everything goes well. I'm really hoping it does, then I can plan to get a compatible Note 8 later this year to work between it and the tv seamlessly.

[red_dog007]

Alot of people call the company that, and I don't blame them, as it does sound similar. It is a Chinese company that is really pushing for added competition in the less expensive tv space with specifications on par with much more expensive televisions.

 

I have some good news of my own tv search. I had some difficulty earlier with the store I got the defective image retention-prone tv at, but we negotiated on a Samsung tv with an amazing deal I'll post about here next week if everything goes well. I'm really hoping it does, then I can plan to get a compatible Note 8 later this year to work between it and the tv seamlessly.

TLC could be decent, just not sure what panels they use.  Im sure the Element TVs will be ok from Amazon.

 

As far as the Samsung do you get any kind of functionality added functionality outside of say a Chromecast, and a phone with an IR blaster (like my V20).   I don't have a SmartTV yet, but that will never have access to my network. Plus I have a reciever, so the TV stuff wouldn't be used anyways.

[Arysyn]

TLC could be decent, just not sure what panels they use. Im sure the Element TVs will be ok from Amazon.

 

As far as the Samsung do you get any kind of functionality added functionality outside of say a Chromecast, and a phone with an IR blaster (like my V20). I don't have a SmartTV yet, but that will never have access to my network. Plus I have a reciever, so the TV stuff wouldn't be used anyways.

Those are some questions I'll have while making what I expect and hope to be my last trip Over to Abt next week, most likely on Monday, depending on the weather. I had to go out for a Pulmonary Function Breathing Test today, and the Chicago area weather right now is very, very warm. Makes me empathetic towards tv delivery people having to do weekend rounds today.

 

If I decide not to get the Samsung, and there is a possibility of it, because its still going to be $5,500 plus $800 for the warranty, plus Illinois taxes, I may opt to deal with possible image retention issues by upgrading to the 2016 65"-inch LG C6, from the 55"-inch one that gave me those troubles, plus internet issues likely attributed to just that set. Thing is, there are many people, the majority of 2016 LG OLED owners very satisfied with their tvs.

 

Despite the few issues I've had with mine, it still is a very good tv, and this is the time to upgrade. The cost is $3,000 for the larger C6, only around $1,000 more. The other thing is, its the only one of a few 2016 OLEDs with 3d and the only other 3d tvs last year are a few Sony tvs and the Z9D, which as great as the Z9D is, its $9,000, etc.

That would interfere in my new computer purchase I need to make, for one powerful enough to run emulator games in 4k/3d, which will cost around $5,500.

[travismheim]

Maybe this is for another thread, but you don't need to spend $5000 on a PC to game in 4k. My three year old machine I put together for around $1500 runs that stuff just fine.

 

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

[Arysyn]

Maybe this is for another thread, but you don't need to spend $5000 on a PC to game in 4k. My three year old machine I put together for around $1500 runs that stuff just fine.

 

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

Building a computer is alot more economical than paying a company to do it for you, especially one of the gaming-specific builders such as OriginPC, DigitalStorm, etc.

 

The other thing, while a moderate PC ought to do fine running some newer high graphics games in 4K, emulators are massively greedy for computing power just on 720p/1080p alone. I had a 700 series Nvidia card in a computer a few years ago that couldn't play the Dolphin emulator at 1080p without having really bad frame rates in the upper 10s, lower 20s fps.

 

I'm going to get the Nvidia TitanXp to make sure this can run. If just pc gaming though, not emulators, a 1050/1060 would do plenty well.

[travismheim]

I don't have experience running the software you mentioned, but in my own experience running some older games on new hardware they still may run poorly no matter how much computing power you throw at them. I regularly play Diablo 3 and Rift and run those just fine on high or ultra settings yet when I load up EverQuest I get video lag which is an 18 year old game.

 

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

[Arysyn]

I don't have experience running the software you mentioned, but in my own experience running some older games on new hardware they still may run poorly no matter how much computing power you throw at them. I regularly play Diablo 3 and Rift and run those just fine on high or ultra settings yet when I load up EverQuest I get video lag which is an 18 year old game.

 

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

That is true. I've even heard that the 900 series cards have difficulty in some capacity running the recent Obduction game by Cyan Worlds.

 

One of the Dreamcast emulators I plan to run using the game Shenmue, did well with lower settings using one of the 900 series cards in 4k from something I saw online awhile back, but I'm taking into consideration that on a large tv with higher settings, it could be too much. I know I'm gambling on this, but I'm more confident that if needbe, it'll at least run in 1080p using the new TitanXp, especially in comparison with the 700 that ran well enough in 720p, just not a great frame rate that became even worse at 1080p.

[red_dog007]

You are really only going to spend $5500 if you like do dual GPUs, 6+ core Intel processor, and nmve SSD of a large capacity or do some crazy custom case build.  Or including a solid 4k monitor?

 

i7-7820X plus solid motherboard will be about $800

Titan is $1200

512GB m.2 nvme $600

case+psu $300

3x 4TB $300

 

That there is just over $3k.  Could easily save $600 by going with the as good 1080Ti.

 

But really for emulators, they do need power, but from your experience, that was a long time ago.  Two GPU architecture generations  (GeForce 700 same architecture as the 600) and on maybe Dolphin 4?  Dolphin 5 is out with huge boost in power. 

 

Anything older, doesn't need a whole lot.  Even DC emulators run fantastic on mobile phones these days at 60fps. 

[Arysyn]

You are really only going to spend $5500 if you like do dual GPUs, 6+ core Intel processor, and nmve SSD of a large capacity or do some crazy custom case build. Or including a solid 4k monitor?

 

i7-7820X plus solid motherboard will be about $800

Titan is $1200

512GB m.2 nvme $600

case+psu $300

3x 4TB $300

 

That there is just over $3k. Could easily save $600 by going with the as good 1080Ti.

 

But really for emulators, they do need power, but from your experience, that was a long time ago. Two GPU architecture generations (GeForce 700 same architecture as the 600) and on maybe Dolphin 4? Dolphin 5 is out with huge boost in power.

 

Anything older, doesn't need a whole lot. Even DC emulators run fantastic on mobile phones these days at 60fps.

I forgot the name of the DC emulator that is very graphically intensive, or at least was. There was an older one that wasn't as demanding, but didn't have the option to go up to 4k. Although, it has been awhile since I checked.

 

I know $5500 is really extreme, and I'd much rather just get the parts myself and build it to save money, which might even be around $2000 in savings if I could. This is a huge investment I've been waiting for years to get, and didn't even have the money for it until recently from money owed to me as a child. Still, I really don't like having that cost, but then again I have no idea how to build a custom pc, nor do I think I can due to health reasons/needing dexterity to connect the thin cabling between parts.

 

Here is what I'm wanting to get though, in terms of configuration :

 

The i7-7700 4.2 CPU, 32gb or 64gb Memory, 2TB Samsung 960 M2 SSD, Nvidia Titan XP for 4k and to probably last this computer for many years graphically, and a decent fan cooling system. I'm not interested in any fancy liquid cooling, lighting, and what not. Plus, I'm looking for a very compact case that'll still work for these, not a huge tower or anything. When I started looking around online and configuring, I thought this would be around $3,000 to $3,500, but nope, its much more expensive. I've also considered the Syber Vapor from CyberPowerPC, which they go up to a 1080Ti, but the company doesn't offer an extended warranty from when I talked with them a few weeks ago.

[Arysyn]

Update on televisions here. The 75"-inch Sony Z9D has had a price reduction from $9,000 down to $8,000. At the one store I've been dealing with has offered a $500 discount to me for that television, which means I can get it for $7,500. I'm very tempted to get it, despite the $1,500 price difference of the 65"-inch A1E and the $4,500 price difference of the 65"-inch LG C6 OLED, which is the 10"-inch larger version of the tv I had image retention issues on. However, it never did become burn-in and the ir did get more tolerable, so I'm not thinking that particular issue as bas as I did in the past. However, I need a tv, so I'm going to get one of those two.

[richy]

 

The i7-7700 4.2 CPU, 32gb or 64gb Memory, 2TB Samsung 960 M2 SSD, Nvidia Titan XP for 4k and to probably last this computer for many years graphically, and a decent fan cooling system. I'm not interested in any fancy liquid cooling, lighting, and what not. Plus, I'm looking for a very compact case that'll still work for these, not a huge tower or anything. When I started looking around online and configuring, I thought this would be around $3,000 to $3,500, but nope, its much more expensive. I've also considered the Syber Vapor from CyberPowerPC, which they go up to a 1080Ti, but the company doesn't offer an extended warranty from when I talked with them a few weeks ago.

 

4k isnt such a reach these days, my laptop can do it at a pinch (intel i7 6820hk, 32gb, nvidia 980 i think) but emulating dreamcast games at 4k? You are probably going to really look into how well it can use the resources you throw at it, i.e. does it need more cores, or less of them but faster etc same for the graphics. One thing I found was gaming at 1080p with more detail turned on and at a higher frame rate seemed better than 4k with a little less detail. 

 

Don't go for too small a case though, I know they can look cool but you want awesome airflow once you start racking in some high end cpu, ram and gfx cards. Good luck, if I get the time I'm going to try a ps3 emulator on my laptop.