Sprint 800 MHz LTE Set For Launch In 2014

[S4GRU]

Yeah, I just read the article. I think we need to accelerate our article as we have more "nerdy" details than what's being provided about 800 from Sprint and also we have more detailed schedule info.

 

Sprint is being very vague about the 800 LTE schedule. They just keep saying "by 2014." I understand why, its a long ways out. Why be specific to month and year for something that far into the future? You are creating unnecesary accountability/expectations. And the truth is, it is a juggling act.

 

However, S4GRU can be specific. Because we report what we see. And if it changes, we will report that too. And maybe having both an official Sprint info release and a S4GRU behind the scenes release in tandem is a very good thing for Sprint customers? It gives them the range, the actual schedule versus Sprint's worst case scenario. Customers want information. And they can understand changes, if they are explained in the right way.

 

Robert via NOVO7PALADIN Tablet using Forum Runner

[tampaflusa]

Sorry to ask another stupid question, but Sprint now is approved 800mhz evdo and voice? And the new EVO will be able to take advantage of it right away once my market (Tampa) is turned on?

Edited April 13, 2012 by tampaflusa

[Sgt. Slaughter]

AJ, Robert, and whoever else wants to cure my noobness on this...lol

 

Okay this might sound silly but its early and I can't help but ask now that the idea has run through my head...

 

With LTE Advanced-> once deployed will we be able to aggregate the bands b/w the 2.6, 800, and 1900 for one fat pipe? My initial thought is no b/c different freq, but on slide 19 http://www.qualcomm.com/media/documents/files/lte-advanced-the-global-4g-solution.pdf they show it being done to an extent it seems.

How will this work exactly? b/c signal will varry greatly b/w the three....AND if it flat out can't work b/c clear is basically a different ISP in a sense, then id ask the same notion for 800 + 1900...

 

 

Also the whole LTE Heterogeneous Networks(HetNets) sounded kinda interesting from a deployment aspect... http://www.qualcomm.com/media/documents/files/lte-heterogeneous-networks.pdf

 

 

Lastly in response to that article above which stated they were currently deploying 2x2 MIMO and later going to 4x4 MIMO....reasoning why not going straight to 4x4 MIMO with the NV rollout upgrades?

[lynyrd65]

So I have a question as well. I assume the Evo LTE will use 1x Advanced for HD Voice. If they are already advertising this now, does that mean they will be deploying 1x Advanced during the first round but maybe on a 1900mhz carrier (a through f)

 

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

[WiWavelength]

Lastly in response to that article above which stated they were currently deploying 2x2 MIMO and later going to 4x4 MIMO....reasoning why not going straight to 4x4 MIMO with the NV rollout upgrades?

 

The simple answer is that 4x4 MIMO requires four downlink antennas. Some larger handsets may eventually be able to accommodate 4x4 MIMO, especially for higher frequency bands. But, more likely, 4x4 and 8x8 MIMO will be largely limited to tablets and laptops, which have much better form factor for multiple, spaced antennas.

 

AJ

[Sgt. Slaughter]

The simple answer is that 4x4 MIMO requires four downlink antennas. Some larger handsets may eventually be able to accommodate 4x4 MIMO, especially for higher frequency bands. But, more likely, 4x4 and 8x8 MIMO will be largely limited to tablets and laptops, which have much better form factor for multiple, spaced antennas.

 

AJ

 

Oh okay so when they said "deploy" they meant as in, installed in handsets, not deployed on towers...I took it as it was something they had to change on the towers.

[WiWavelength]

So I have a question as well. I assume the Evo LTE will use 1x Advanced for HD Voice. If they are already advertising this now, does that mean they will be deploying 1x Advanced during the first round but maybe on a 1900mhz carrier (a through f)

 

No, CDMA1X Advanced is not required for HD Voice, which is technically the EVRC-NW codec. EVRC-NW has greater frequency response, but stronger data compression techniques keep its max voice data rate at the same 8.55 kbps as the current EVRC codec.

 

AJ

[WiWavelength]

Oh okay so when they said "deploy" they meant as in, installed in handsets, not deployed on towers...I took it as it was something they had to change on the towers.

 

"Deploy" could mean some updates to base station infrastructure. I do not know, as I am not certain that current Sprint LTE hardware supports greater than 2x2 downlink MIMO. Even if an infrastructure upgrade is necessary, there would be little reason to install the hardware for 4x4 downlink MIMO now because only LTE UE category 5 (see table below) devices can take advantage of 4x4 downlink MIMO. But, to my knowledge, all LTE devices thus far have been category 2 (Motorola) or category 3 (most/all other OEMs). So, category 5 devices may not hit the market anytime soon. Furthermore, Sprint's roll out of 4x4 downlink MIMO appears to coincide with its roll out of LTE Advanced; hence, an infrastructure upgrade will be required either way.

 

 

 

AJ

[Sgt. Slaughter]

"Deploy" could mean some updates to base station infrastructure. I do not know, as I am not certain that current Sprint LTE hardware supports greater than 2x2 downlink MIMO. Even if an infrastructure upgrade is necessary, there would be little reason to install the hardware for 4x4 downlink MIMO now because only LTE UE category 5 (see table below) devices can take advantage of 4x4 downlink MIMO. But, to my knowledge, all LTE devices thus far have been category 2 (Motorola) or category 3 (most/all other OEMs). So, category 5 devices may not hit the market anytime soon, if ever. Furthermore, Sprint's roll out of 4x4 downlink MIMO appears to coincide with its roll out of LTE Advanced; hence, an infrastructure upgrade will be required either way.

 

 

 

AJ

 

okay. I just assumed that if they were going to go to 4x4 that they would go ahead and do so now on the towers...that is as long as its downward/backward compatible...Same thought for LTE-Advanced, I was assuming that the necc hardware was there on towers after NV upgrades take place and it would be something that could be flipped on via the tower easy once handsets are out to support the feature later...

 

So all in all they are doing the one NV rollout upgrades and then in a sense for LTE-Advanced they will have to do another nationwide set of tower upgrades in the near future?...

[ericdabbs]

Yeah, I just read the article. I think we need to accelerate our article as we have more "nerdy" details than what's being provided about 800 from Sprint and also we have more detailed schedule info.

 

Sprint is being very vague about the 800 LTE schedule. They just keep saying "by 2014." I understand why, its a long ways out. Why be specific to month and year for something that far into the future? You are creating unnecesary accountability/expectations. And the truth is, it is a juggling act.

 

However, S4GRU can be specific. Because we report what we see. And if it changes, we will report that too. And maybe having both an official Sprint info release and a S4GRU behind the scenes release in tandem is a very good thing for Sprint customers? It gives them the range, the actual schedule versus Sprint's worst case scenario. Customers want information. And they can understand changes, if they are explained in the right way.

 

Robert via NOVO7PALADIN Tablet using Forum Runner

 

I think all of us would appreciate an 800 MHz LTE article to clear the air on what Sprint plans to do. I know you mentioned a while ago that you had some 800 MHz LTE info which needed to be dug through. Maybe an update on your observations so far would be much appreciated.

[WiWavelength]

okay. I just assumed that if they were going to go to 4x4 that they would go ahead and do so now on the towers...that is as long as its downward/backward compatible...Same thought for LTE-Advanced, I was assuming that the necc hardware was there on towers after NV upgrades take place and it would be something that could be flipped on via the tower easy once handsets are out to support the feature later...

 

 

Sgt., I do not keep up with standards ratification and equipment availability as much as I should. But, as far as I know, LTE Advanced is not yet ready for prime time. So, LTE Advanced was not an option -- at least, not at the start of the Network Vision sweep, much like LTE was not an option at the start of the WiMAX deployment.

 

On my soapbox, I think that infrastructure vendors stagger their R&D with planned obsolescence in mind. Why sell wireless carriers LTE Advanced directly when they can sell them LTE first, then sell them LTE Advanced a year or two later? Planned obsolescence is one of the most despicable aspects of tech industry capitalism.

 

So all in all they are doing the one NV rollout upgrades and then in a sense for LTE-Advanced they will have to do another nationwide set of tower upgrades in the near future?...

 

I believe that is true, but only to a certain extent. So, do not get carried away. For example, Network Vision is a complete overhaul of antennas, base stations, and backhaul. An LTE Advanced sweep, on the other hand, will be a modest evolutionary update, not a revolutionary change. Because, other than carrier aggregation, the biggest changes from LTE to LTE Advanced are on the uplink, so that falls more so on the device manufacturers.

 

AJ

[Sgt. Slaughter]

Sgt., I do not keep up with standards ratification and equipment availability as much as I should. But, as far as I know, LTE Advanced is not yet ready for prime time. So, LTE Advanced was not an option -- at least, not at the start of the Network Vision sweep, much like LTE was not an option at the start of the WiMAX deployment.

 

On my soapbox, I think that infrastructure vendors stagger their R&D with planned obsolescence in mind. Why sell wireless carriers LTE Advanced directly when they can sell them LTE first, then sell them LTE Advanced a year or two later? Planned obsolescence is one of the most despicable aspects of tech industry capitalism.

 

 

 

I believe that is true, but only to a certain extent. So, do not get carried away. For example, Network Vision is a complete overhaul of antennas, base stations, and backhaul. An LTE Advanced sweep, on the other hand, will be a modest evolutionary update, not a revolutionary change. Because, other than carrier aggregation, the biggest changes from LTE to LTE Advanced are on the uplink, so that falls more so on the device manufacturers.

 

AJ

 

okay were on the same page then soap box and all. lol

 

Just thinking logically here and all was why i brought up the whole thing with why not go ahead with installing equipment Y if you knew equipment X was going to be changed out in the near future anyway...

 

 

Still interested in how the whole LTE-Advanced will work with the different bands 800, 1900, and 2.6 like i mentioned earlier...lotta questions there for me as im not brushed up on the exacts of it really...least not from a network standpoint.

[WiWavelength]

Can LTE be allocated in say a 7x3 configuration? I say that because typically my speeds on evdo are about 50-100k down and 700-800k up. I wouldn't think that all that spectrum would need to be allocated for upload. Most people are used to having under 1mbps for uploads.

 

A 3 MHz x 7 MHz configuration? No, not really. You may be confusing a 10 MHz FDD license with just a 10 MHz single block of spectrum. In actuality, it is 5 MHz x 5 MHz -- uplink and downlink -- separated by an offset.

 

Also it looks like LTE is up to 12 times more efficient that EVDO so that should help for the near term capacity problems.

 

That figure likely comes from comparing LTE 64-QAM (6 bits/symbol) to EV-DO 16-QAM (4 bits/symbol) and LTE 8x8 MIMO to EV-DO SISO on a Hz per Hz basis. Do the math: 6 ÷ 4 = 1.5 and 8 ÷ 1 = 8, then 1.5 × 8 = 12. But that is a highly optimistic comparison; real world performance will not even approach that 12:1 ratio because 64-QAM is usable under only the best radio conditions and 8x8 MIMO will not be available in very many devices ever.

 

A more realistic comparison is LTE 16-QAM to EV-DO 16-QAM, LTE 2x2 MIMO to EV-DO SISO, and LTE 5 MHz to EV-DO 1.25 MHz. Again, do the math: 4 ÷ 4 = 1 and 2 ÷ 1 = 2 and 5 ÷ 1.25 = 4, then 1 × 2 × 4 = 8. That equates to an 8:1 ratio in favor of LTE, but note that LTE requires fours times the bandwidth to achieve that advantage. So, the real spectral efficiency advance for LTE comes largely from multiple spatial channels, ergo MIMO.

 

AJ

[mirskyc]

I know sprint is waiting for FCC aproval to use the 800MHz smr spectrum from nextel for LTE. Do they need approval to start using it for 800MHz ESMR Voice or has it already/always been allowed?

 

I can't seem to find a map of the 800MHz SMR spectrum Sprint owns on the FCCs site and specmap.sequence-omega.net say it has trouble downloading that data from FCCs site. Is this band nation wide like the G block of the PCS band Sprint has?

[lynyrd65]

One thing I noticed that is VERY interesting is that both VZW and AT&T only have 12.5x12.5 in the Cellular band (*except in a few areas) while Sprint has 14x14 (edit: 7x7) in most areas for the SMR. It will be extremely interesting to see if Sprints next big project after network vision is building out into rural areas with SMR 1x-Advanced/LTE-Advanced configured for maximum coverage, because it appears Sprint has an advantage on the spectrum front compared to VZ and AT&T! (until you look at VZ's 700mhz holdings)

 

I would sure love to see Sprint steal away some rural customers from ATT and VZW and I think they can (inexpensively at that!) with this SMR spectrum.

 

I saw this on spectrum omega. here

 

EDIT: Mah bad Sprint as 7x7 not 14x14

[WiWavelength]

One thing I noticed that is VERY interesting is that both VZW and AT&T only have 12.5x12.5 in the Cellular band (*except in a few areas) while Sprint has 14x14 in most areas for the SMR.

 

No, Sprint holds 14 MHz total -- max 7 MHz x 7 MHz ESMR in the reconfigured SMR 800 MHz band. And, in many markets, Sprint is licensed or has available considerably less than 14 MHz.

 

AJ

[xcharles718]

One thing I noticed that is VERY interesting is that both VZW and AT&T only have 12.5x12.5 in the Cellular band (*except in a few areas) while Sprint has 14x14 in most areas for the SMR. It will be extremely interesting to see if Sprints next big project after network vision is building out into rural areas with SMR 1x-Advanced/LTE-Advanced configured for maximum coverage, because it appears Sprint has an advantage on the spectrum front compared to VZ and AT&T! (until you look at VZ's 700mhz holdings)

 

I would sure love to see Sprint steal away some rural customers from ATT and VZW and I think they can (inexpensively at that!) with this SMR spectrum.

 

I saw this on spectrum omega. here

Sprint has a 7x7 spectrum setup in ESMR. This totals up to 14MHz, not 14x14.

[lynyrd65]

Ah right. Oh well, Sprint should still do it anyway. 5x5mhz LTE + 1.25x1.25mhz 1xAdvanced should be plenty for those areas.

[ericdabbs]

Ah right. Oh well, Sprint should still do it anyway. 5x5mhz LTE + 1.25x1.25mhz 1xAdvanced should be plenty for those areas.

 

A 5x5 MHz LTE and a 1x carrier should be fine for now but I would love to see Sprint obtain the lower part of the 800 MHz spectrum 810-817 MHz used by SouthernLinc and others. With that acquisition of spectrum Sprint would then have a 14x14 configuration which they could use to put a 10x10 LTE carrier and 2 1x carriers. Then as LTE progresses, sprint could turn those 2 1x carriers into a 3x3 LTE carrier.

[4GHoward]

I don't know what your question is. I know what all those words mean, but together it doesn't make sense. Please elaborate.

 

Robert via NOVO7PALADIN Tablet using Forum Runner

 

Are you saying that Sprint is deploying 1xAdvanced on its 800 MHz spectrum and later they are going to deploy LTE on it?

[tampaflusa]

 

 

Are you saying that Sprint is deploying 1xAdvanced on its 800 MHz spectrum and later they are going to deploy LTE on it?

That's what I'm wondering also, is 800 1x ready to go once the markets come online? Will the EVO LTE be able to take advantage of it right away?

[S4GRU]

Are you saying that Sprint is deploying 1xAdvanced on its 800 MHz spectrum and later they are going to deploy LTE on it?

That's what I'm wondering also, is 800 1x ready to go once the markets come online? Will the EVO LTE be able to take advantage of it right away?

 

To clarify, Sprint is deploying one 1xAdvanced carrier for voice and 1x data this year on 800 within Network Vision deployments. This carrier will not be active the day the site goes live. However, after enough room is cleared from the iDEN thinning and reorganization, the 800 1xA carriers will go live. Maybe as soon as this Fall in some areas. Existing 800 CDMA capable handsets will be able to use this right away. However, this will not occur in all markets because of rebanding, etc.

 

Sprint will be deploying 800 LTE carriers later in 2013. They will not be in place of the 800 1xA carrier, but spectrally right beside it. The 5x5 800 FD-LTE carriers will not be be deployed at every site nationwide. Because Sprint does not have 14MHz of 800 nationwide. Some more details about that will be in our 800 article.

 

Robert

[jegillis]

A 3 MHz x 7 MHz configuration? No, not really. You may be confusing a 10 MHz FDD license with just a 10 MHz single block of spectrum. In actuality, it is 5 MHz x 5 MHz -- uplink and downlink -- separated by an offset.

 

AJ

 

I was thinking along the lines for example that you had a 10x10 chunk of spectrum and you allocated it so that 7x3 and then 3x7 with the 7 being the downlink.

[4GHoward]

To clarify, Sprint is deploying one 1xAdvanced carrier for voice and 1x data this year on 800 within Network Vision deployments. This carrier will not be active the day the site goes live. However, after enough room is cleared from the iDEN thinning and reorganization, the 800 1xA carriers will go live. Maybe as soon as this Fall in some areas. Existing 800 CDMA capable handsets will be able to use this right away. However, this will not occur in all markets because of rebanding, etc.

 

Sprint will be deploying 800 LTE carriers later in 2013. They will not be in place of the 800 1xA carrier, but spectrally right beside it. The 5x5 800 FD-LTE carriers will not be be deployed at every site nationwide. Because Sprint does not have 14MHz of 800 nationwide. Some more details about that will be in our 800 article.

 

Robert

 

How will existing Nextel iDEN Customers be migrated onto Sprint CDMA Network if they are in a non Sprint Coverage Area? I remember you mentioning that Network Vision is going to be deployed only on existing Sprint CDMA towers and not on the Nextel iDEN only towers.

[4ringsnbr]

So I have a question as well. I assume the Evo LTE will use 1x Advanced for HD Voice. If they are already advertising this now, does that mean they will be deploying 1x Advanced during the first round but maybe on a 1900mhz carrier (a through f)

 

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

All 1xRTT PCS (1900 MHz) carriers will become 1xAdvanced carriers when the tower is upgraded. 1xAdvanced is backward-compatible: when a capable handset links, the carrier will grant service option 75 with RC11 forward and RC8 reverse links. The same carrier will use the standard RC3 config 1xRTT service for handsets that do not support 1xAdvanced. Once the tower is upgraded, there will be NO 1xRTT at all-- only 1xAdvanced (handsets for both systems will work at the highest service they can).