IT'S THE WiMAX COUNTDOWN!!!

[lilotimz]

Has anyone seen any cost savings numbers for shutting down the WiMax network? Hopefully it's a decent chunk of the 2 to 2.5 billion cost cuts.

50-100 million a year just from decommission the redundant 6000 wimax towers is what I've seen being floated around. Ofcourse there's other cost savings like not supporting wimax customers, billing, support, and the like. I'd guess probably the top end is about a 200-250 million a year in savings from all associated cost.

 

Sent from my LG-H790

[WiWavelength]

Here is an interesting assignment.

 

We have only a few weeks left.  After that, the Clear.com web site almost certainly will go dark.  The Google Maps based WiMAX coverage tool will be gone forever.

 

For historic preservation purposes, do we have any coders who could extract that coverage data in at least reasonably high resolution images?  It would not have to be interactive like Google Maps -- though if we could keep the original format, that would be ideal.

 

Thoughts?

 

AJ

[bigmachine]

Here is an interesting assignment.

 

We have only a few weeks left. After that, the Clear.com web site almost certainly will go dark. The Google Maps based WiMAX coverage tool will be gone forever.

 

For historic preservation purposes, do we have any coders who could extract that coverage data in at least reasonably high resolution images? It would not have to be interactive like Google Maps -- though if we could keep the original format, that would be ideal.

 

Thoughts?

 

AJ

As a less desirable alternative I have been doing it the low-tech way with screengrabs and stitching it in Photoshop for the LA Metro market.

[RAvirani]

Quick question - how long will it take for a second 2.5 carrier to show up after WiMAX has shut down?

[leozno1]

No, in most markets it is not. (There are a couple of exceptions, where WiMax usage is high enough they have not done any WiMax thinning. WiMax sites tend to use different spectrum on each sector, so it eats up a lot of the available spectrum.)

 

But that's not what I'm talking about. I mean deploy a second carrier on the Clear equipment. Not deploy a second carrier in general. In dual mode WiMax/LTE, Clear equipment can only broadcast one LTE carrier. With WiMax shut off, they can deploy a second (or more) carrier.

 

 

Yes, they do have a lot of 2.5 GHz spectrum. BUT, the way WiMAX was deployed, each sector used a DIFFERENT 10 MHz slice of spectrum. So one site used 30 MHz, and other sites may use other 10 MHz slices of spectrum also, so even MORE spectrum is used. Therefore, a lot of spectrum can get used very easily.

 

So yes, WiMAX does have to be shut down in areas that not much thinning has been done in order to launch a second carrier.

 

Edit: DK got his post out before mine

 

-Anthony

 

 

It sounds like a lot of spectrum currently but if Sprint wants to use some of that 2.5 GHz spectrum for intraband wireless backhaul it won't be that much especially if Sprint can ramp up to 5xCA at some point  .  The reason I say 5xCA is because I think I read that LTE can be aggregated up to 100 MHz currently.

 

 

 

 

Didn't know that the Clear equipment is only limited to 2 LTE carriers max.  So yeah I think its crucial that Sprint decommission the Wimax network quickly so that a 2nd LTE carrier can be fired up for 2xCA.

 

 

Sprint isn't going to waste money maintaining a dying technology with few subscribers. They aren't required to and they would be stupid to. It is better used boosting B41 speeds with 3 carriers. Even a second set of 3 carriers, then leaving the WiMax network operating.

 

WiMax's death was announced in 2012. Most of the customers that were around in 2012 are long gone. Most of these remaining subscribers became WiMax customers after the 2012 announcement that Sprint was going LTE and getting away from WiMax and Clearwire's subsequent announcement.

 

These really low cost WiMax plans came out to just use the network until its sunset. So it won't be a complete waste for 3 years and perhaps generate some revenue. Now these people certainly are in no position to demand to keep it now. They always only were going to have it for a short time. This should be a surprise to no one.

 

Using Tapatalk on BlackBerry Z30

 

Thanks for the insight guys and for the rapid response. I actually would second RAvirani's question right above me and ask how long would it take for a second carrier to show up after the shutdown?

 

Is that something that could be set up before hand in the months leading up to the shutdown and as soon as Nov 6 rolls around they just turn off Wimax and turn on LTE? Or am I oversimplifying the amount of work required to make the transition?

[Dkoellerwx]

Thanks for the insight guys and for the rapid response. I actually would second RAvirani's question right above me and ask how long would it take for a second carrier to show up after the shutdown?

 

Is that something that could be set up before hand in the months leading up to the shutdown and as soon as Nov 6 rolls around they just turn off Wimax and turn on LTE? Or am I oversimplifying the amount of work required to make the transition?

They are preparing for it now, increasing backhaul and making other preparations. In the vast majority of cases, a site visit isn't needed, most of the work can be done remotely. So once the spectrum is cleared and they have confirmed everything is ready to go, it should roll out pretty quickly.

 

Sent from my LG G4

[jamesinclair]

Shut down?

 

FOREVER???

 

How are speeds on it these days?

 

I assume at 1 person per tower, one can get quite the bandwidth

[dnwk]

I would like to see the terms of the contract.

 

One, it was probably inked by Clearwire, not Sprint.  Two, it was ostensibly a charitable act by Clearwire.  Three, it sounds as if Clearwire gave away a certain number of incredibly low cost, maybe even free accounts to these non profit middlemen to redistribute through charitable organizations.  Four, the accounts may be for "unlimited" WiMAX data and cost users only around $10 per month.

 

If accurate and the non profit middlemen or charitable organizations think that they should get the same low cost or even free accounts on "unlimited" LTE data, that is not happening.  They can go jump in any one of the 10,000 lakes in Minnesota.

 

AJ

 

In the case of Mobile Citizen, they own some EBS spectrum and it was leasing the spectrum to Sprint. FCC rule requires 5% reservation on EBS for educational purpose. So Clearwire is giving them educational free accounts to comply that 5% reservation rule.

 

And Mobile Citizen is asking FCC to intervene http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/comment/view?id=60001300834

 

 

Here are some experts from the leasing agreement filed by Clear to SEC:

 

"

          ( Initially, Clearwire shall provide Licensees [***] Cost-FreeEducational Account per Cell Site per Market Area (each a "Basic Cost-FreeEducation Account"). The number of Cost-Free Educational Accounts shall beadjusted upward every [***] proportionate to the growth of the overall datacapacity of Clearwire's network in the Market Area where the EBS system islocated. The growth (if any) in the overall data capacity shall be determined asset forth in Section 8.02(c) hereof.

[...]

 (ii) Educational End Users. Cost-Free Educational Accounts shallbe exclusively for Educational End Users and not for resale, assignment ortransfer by a Licensee outside of its Educational End User environment or topersons who cease to be officially associated with such Educational End User.(By way of example, a university may resell the service to its students,faculty, administrators and staff, while such persons are involved with theuniversity, but shall cease to provide the service if a member of the facultyterminates employment or a student graduates and ceases to be involved inuniversity matters.)

[...]

 Section 3.05. Licensee MVNO.          (a) In addition to the right to Cost-Free Educational Accounts,Licensees shall have the right to resell the Clearwire service in the form ofMVNO Educational Accounts to additional Educational End Users in each MarketArea for use on the Clearwire National Platform. An "MVNO Educational Account"shall have the identical characteristics as a Cost-Free Educational Accountunder Section 3.02(, except that there shall be a charge to Licensee asdetermined pursuant to this Section 3.05. Clearwire shall sell to Licensees suchservices, at a cost equal to [***] provided by Clearwire to an arms-length thirdparty in[*** Confidential Treatment Requested]such Market Area or other comparable market pursuant to any applicableagreement. However, the number of MVNO Educational Accounts is limited in eachMarket Area to [***] the number of Cost-Free Educational Accounts for thatMarket Area.

"

[orangeblue]

Here is an interesting assignment.

 

We have only a few weeks left.  After that, the Clear.com web site almost certainly will go dark.  The Google Maps based WiMAX coverage tool will be gone forever.

 

For historic preservation purposes, do we have any coders who could extract that coverage data in at least reasonably high resolution images?  It would not have to be interactive like Google Maps -- though if we could keep the original format, that would be ideal.

 

Thoughts?

 

AJ

 

I would love to see Sprint using the Clear style coverage maps because the current one is way to small!

[RAvirani]

I would love to see Sprint using the Clear style coverage maps because the current one is way to small!

Yes omg

[WiWavelength]

I would love to see Sprint using the Clear style coverage maps because the current one is way to small!

Yes omg

 

And then those Google Maps based coverage maps could not be so easily harvested to high resolution GIFs, which S4GRU has used at times to archive historical coverage.  As I have said before, beware what you wish for...

 

AJ

[4GHoward]

We all know WiMAX is shutting down on November 6, 2015. That's the end of that era.

 

However, Mobile Citizen and Mobile Beacon is trying to petition Sprint to prevent a WiMAX Shutdown. Do you think Sprint will come up with something?

 

Please read the petition here:

https://www.change.org/p/sprint-and-ceo-marcelo-claure-don-t-shut-off-300-000-americans-internet-access

 

This is more information:

http://mobilecitizen.org/wp-content/uploads/MobileCitizen_MobileBeacon_1pager-10-2015.pdf

[dkyeager]

Shut down?

 

FOREVER???

 

How are speeds on it these days?

 

I assume at 1 person per tower, one can get quite the bandwidth

 

Around 7.5 down on my local site (was 14 in early days, well before B41 LTE).  So far I have observed no WiMAX site shutdowns (unlike iDEN), rather I think Sprint has given WiMAX a lower priority over the last few months based on very limited observations.  A number of the Clear B41 LTE sites in Columbus are now overloaded.  No sign of improved backhaul or conversions yet.

[jamesinclair]

Around 7.5 down on my local site (was 14 in early days, well before B41 LTE).  So far I have observed no WiMAX site shutdowns (unlike iDEN), rather I think Sprint has given WiMAX a lower priority over the last few months based on very limited observations.  A number of the Clear B41 LTE sites in Columbus are now overloaded.  No sign of improved backhaul or conversions yet.

 

Thats too bad. I was thinking of booting up the old Photon 4G and downloading the entire library of congress.

[markjcc]

We all know WiMAX is shutting down on November 6, 2015. That's the end of that era.

 

However, Mobile Citizen and Mobile Beacon is trying to petition Sprint to prevent a WiMAX Shutdown. Do you think Sprint will come up with something?

 

Please read the petition here:

https://www.change.org/p/sprint-and-ceo-marcelo-claure-don-t-shut-off-300-000-americans-internet-access

 

This is more information:

http://mobilecitizen.org/wp-content/uploads/MobileCitizen_MobileBeacon_1pager-10-2015.pdf

 

"In addition, Sprint should stop throttling their Internet service. America’s students cannot succeed if they are in the slow lane."

 

And the students and these group of people are using it for "Educational purposes" right? not Streaming Netflix and playing CoD

 

What's holding back Sprint from providing Unlimited B41 data?

[dnwk]

"In addition, Sprint should stop throttling their Internet service. America’s students cannot succeed if they are in the slow lane."

 

And the students and these group of people are using it for "Educational purposes" right? not Streaming Netflix and playing CoD

 

What's holding back Sprint from providing Unlimited B41 data?

 

The data provided in the lawsuit says majority of user were around 35G per month. That amount of data for whole school wasn't huge.  The 6G limit mean they could only issue the service to individuals not for an organization. It is reasonable that a school would easily hit that limit pretty soon even without Netflix.

 

I have post some excerpt of their spectrum leasing agreement with Clear earlier on the post.

 

What's holding back Sprint from providing unlimited B41 data is money. Sprint is contractual obligated to provide them cost-free educational account. By limited the data they could use, it served as a cost saving measure.

[ericdabbs]

The data provided in the lawsuit says majority of user were around 35G per month. That amount of data for whole school wasn't huge.  The 6G limit mean they could only issue the service to individuals not for an organization. It is reasonable that a school would easily hit that limit pretty soon even without Netflix.

 

I have post some excerpt of their spectrum leasing agreement with Clear earlier on the post.

 

What's holding back Sprint from providing unlimited B41 data is money. Sprint is contractual obligated to provide them cost-free educational account. By limited the data they could use, it served as a cost saving measure.

 

Perhaps Sprint can settle and increase the amount to 12 GB or something.

[markjcc]

Does anybody know how long it'll take Sprint to convert existing WiMax sites into Sprint cell sites after WiMax has been fully shutdown.

[jefbal99]

Does anybody know how long it'll take Sprint to convert existing WiMax sites into Sprint cell sites after WiMax has been fully shutdown.

No one knows what sites will continue in service and what ones will be shutdown due to redundant Sprint sites in the area.

 

If the existing Band 41 equipment will support it, the expectation is that additional LTE B41 carriers will be broadcast.

 

If a site is scheduled for full conversion, then it will eventually be a rip and replace with NV antennas and backhaul.

[Nickel]

And then those Google Maps based coverage maps could not be so easily harvested to high resolution GIFs, which S4GRU has used at times to archive historical coverage.  As I have said before, beware what you wish for...

 

AJ

GIFs? Wouldn't you be better off using PNGs? Unless you animate them it seems weird to use GIFs.

[bigmachine]

GIFs? Wouldn't you be better off using PNGs? Unless you animate them it seems weird to use GIFs.

So, the maps I'm building with openEXR images might be overkill?

[WiWavelength]

GIFs? Wouldn't you be better off using PNGs? Unless you animate them it seems weird to use GIFs.

 

GIF is the native image format for Sprint's online coverage map tool.  Simple as that.

 

AJ

[Nickel]

GIF is the native image format for Sprint's online coverage map tool.  Simple as that.

 

AJ

[Mr.Nuke]

What's holding back Sprint from providing Unlimited B41 data?

QOS for their actual paying customers.

 

And the students and these group of people are using it for "Educational purposes" right? not Streaming Netflix and playing CoD

Data use is data use.

Does anybody know how long it'll take Sprint to convert existing WiMax sites into Sprint cell sites after WiMax has been fully shutdown.

That statement assumes all wimax sties are going to be converted. Many wimax sites likely won't be converted. That is part of the cost savings benefit from shutting down the wimax network.

[Mr.Nuke]

In the case of Mobile Citizen, they own some EBS spectrum and it was leasing the spectrum to Sprint. FCC rule requires 5% reservation on EBS for educational purpose. So Clearwire is giving them educational free accounts to comply that 5% reservation rule.

 

And Mobile Citizen is asking FCC to intervene http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/comment/view?id=60001300834

 

 

Here are some experts from the leasing agreement filed by Clear to SEC:

And this is where it gets interesting because Clearwire and Wimax are 1) no longer a company and 2) soon to be a non-operating technology in the US. The fact that John Schwartz is being quoted in articles pertaining to this as being outraged should be a huge red flag. From all appearances the guy is a spectrum squatter for all practical purposes, leasing EBS from institutions and then subleasing it to Sprint nee Clearwire. The fact that he is being quoted in articles such as one from the Verge as saying "If the WiMAX network goes dark now, the organizations behind Mobile Beacon and Mobile Citizen will be 'destroyed'" leads one to believe that the guarantees in said contracts were likely Wimax and not spectrum specific.

 

From the start this reeks of trying to get something for nothing. I'm really not sure what Schwartz' end game is here either.  It certainly isn't for the children. Seemingly at best the court agrees with him at which point Sprint finds a loophole and terminates a bunch of their affected Schwartz subleases that they arguably don't need. At that point he'd be on the hook for what they are seeking from Sprint.

The data provided in the lawsuit says majority of user were around 35G per month. That amount of data for whole school wasn't huge.  The 6G limit mean they could only issue the service to individuals not for an organization. It is reasonable that a school would easily hit that limit pretty soon even without Netflix.

They're also a little conflicted on their press releases. They state an average of 30-40 gigs/month, but also self admittedly say the top 25% of schools are using up to 50 and 300+ gigs a month. Be it 35 for 400 this isn't like an average wireless user where data consumption will be spread over multiple sites. It is a fixed building typically meaning a single site is going to be hammered every day during school hours.

 

Sprint is contractual obligated to provide them cost-free educational account. By limited the data they could use, it served as a cost saving measure.

This is what the lawsuit is over. They're claiming this is the case. Sprint is claiming they are paying the EBS liscense holders lease payments (which they are) and they're giving them the required access to the network (which they are, pending unknown contractual terms). The fact that Mobile Beacon/Citizen ore other EBS holders resells the data Sprint is giving them is between them and their customers (according to Sprint).

 

To me, It really reeks of Voqal aka Schwartz not having the money to switch out his customers from Wimax to LTE and or realizing that even if he does, his initial contracts with Clearwire didn't account for Sprint buying them out. He doesn't have a ton of leverage here either, because Sprint doesn't need most of these subleases right now. Additionally,  he is screwed with build-out requirements and or providing service to his customers if Sprint isn't involved.