Verizon leasing Dish's spectrum?

[bigsnake49]

There has been a lot of speculation in the trade press and analysts about Verizon leasing Dish's spectrum in exchange for Dish being paid in capacity. Now my question is Verizon is not wanting in spectrum, all they need to do is refarm their 850 and PCS holdings. They would have to spend around $10B to fully deploy a network. Even then, which of the bands that Dish holds would they be interested in? Is Dish getting desperate?

Edited September 22, 2015 by bigsnake49

[Arysyn]

Even though Lowell McAdam has denied Verizon being interested in purchasing Dish, I think they will do so, instead of just leasing spectrum from them, as there is more value in that, than just leasing spectrum from another company. Besides, Dish wants a wireless company to own and have bundled services tied in with their Satellite.

 

I think Masayoshi Son and Softbank really ought to purchase Dish before Verizon does, since it seems there isn't going to be a deal between Dish and T-Mobile. Then later on, Softbank can try again acquiring T-Mobile, especially as they can claim to the FCC it will expand choice giving customers better value with both mobile and television together.

[mozamcrew]

Verizon seems like they really want to get out of the wired lines business. Maybe they ought to consider buying Dish and setting their wired division to Centurylink or some other company that wants to be in that business. That way they can still leverage their satellite business to offer content.

 

If I were Sprint, I might try the opposite tack. Staying out of the content game and being a wireless provider and Tier 1 ISP. Much like they are doing with their RRPP, maybe they expand their fiber network and provide backhaul for many CLECs?

[smooth25]

Even though Lowell McAdam has denied Verizon being interested in purchasing Dish, I think they will do so, instead of just leasing spectrum from them, as there is more value in that, than just leasing spectrum from another company. Besides, Dish wants a wireless company to own and have bundled services tied in with their Satellite.

 

I think Masayoshi Son and Softbank really ought to purchase Dish before Verizon does, since it seems there isn't going to be a deal between Dish and T-Mobile. Then later on, Softbank can try again acquiring T-Mobile, especially as they can claim to the FCC it will expand choice giving customers better value with both mobile and television together.

That'll only cost around 100 billion.

 

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[Arysyn]

That'll only cost around 100 billion.

 

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$100 billion for Dish?

 

Even though this article is a year old, I found some information on it pertaining to its worth :

 

http://www.barrons.com/articles/SB50001424053111904248904580003274042514274

 

According to the article, Dish's spectrum alone is $25 billion, while the stock market value is $30 billion.

 

Dish needs to hurry up and get a deal done. Their preference in terms of their business outlook, was to own a wireless company and merge it with their satellite television service so they can bundle the two services together to sell to customers, which would draw more customers.

 

The next best thing for Dish, would be to be bought by a wireless company and have this outlook met. If Verizon bought them, it wouldn't be getting back into landlines, just another form of wireless by satellite, which would help Verizon in delivering their new video content business. Plus, it would give Verizon something else to compete against AT&TT now that AT&T owns DirecTv. With AT&T promoting bundle deals with AT&T, Verizon may be quietly considering acquiring Dish, while denying it publicly.

 

However, if Verizon really doesn't want to own Dish, then that leaves Dish another option for having a fully consolidated company with wireless, which is to have Softbank acquire them. As I've stated before, I think such a deal between Softbank and Dish is an important aspect to a potential T-Mobile acquisition by Softbank, as it gives Softbank some incentives in convincing the FCC to approve a deal with T-Mobile. It gives consumers an added value, especially in the case where perhaps Verizon and Comcast were to make a deal.

 

This is just my speculation of things though. To add, I wouldn't be surprised to see a big three of AT&T/DirecTv, Verizon/Comcast, and Softbank/Sprint/T-Mobile/Dish

[smooth25]

I meant for Dish and T-Mobile.

 

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[Arysyn]

I meant for Dish and T-Mobile.

 

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That very well seems true, likely more so, since I imagine DT will try getting as much as they can for it. Considering Dish seems to have given up on it with them, it might be difficult for Softbank. However, the previous talks between them seemed to go well while the main issue was getting approval by the FCC.

 

I still think Softbank needs to consider Dish in this process, despite the cost, because of the reasons I mentioned in my previous post. It may be what the FCC needs to hear, in order to sway them from their concerns of having three main carriers.

[clbowens]

Does anybody know what kind (AWS, PCS, cellular, etc) and how much spectrum Dish controls?

[cletus]

Does anybody know what kind (AWS, PCS, cellular, etc) and how much spectrum Dish controls?

I am sure others might correct me but my understanding was that Dish owns like 6 or 7 MHz of spectrum in the unpaired Lower 700MHz E block? It also owns the PCS H block paired spectrum (1915-1920 / 1995-2000 MHz) basically nationwide and then they also own lower and upper AWS-4 (2000-2020 MHz and 2180-2200 MHz) everywhere it has PCS H block spectrum.

 

Most recently they (and their designated entity companies) were awarded AWS-3 holdings (1695-1710 unpaired uplink, paired unlink 1755-1780 MHz, paired downlink 2155-2180 ) I'm not sure how much of this spectrum they actually ended up winning because they still have to pay for the full price since the FCC decided using DE companies you own 85% of isn't playing fair.

 

So, significant holdings.

[red_dog007]

Yeah, 6MHz uplink 700.  40MHz on AWS4 which can be all used for downlink.  Then the recent AWS3.  The unpaired is 15MHz uplink which I think is nationwide.  Then the 10MHz of PCS. Plus Dish has been trying to get the L-band from Lightsquard (LTE Band 24) which they have all 34MHz of.  it has GPS interference concerns, but even with the proposed guard bands that still is another 20MHz that can be used there.

 

As is with the Dish spectrum they could do 40x15 with the AWS4 and unpaired AWS3.  I think this is the most intersting and what VZW would want to utilize first possibly.

 

Wasn't Charter interested in buying TWC for $50+ billion?  Maybe they'd be interested in buying Verizon FIOS, then Verizon could turn around and use that cash to buy Dish or lease the spectrum.  But if they lease the spectrum they are going to do long term lease.

 

I think if this happens, AT&T and TMobile will have to merge.  Long term they won't be able to compete unless they dip heavily into highband unlicensed.

 

VZW would be much better off going after all that highband.  I think 20x20+ over 700 and 800MHz is plenty for rural markets.

 

Hopefully though, if VZW makes a deal with Dish the FCC makes VZW offer an unlimited data plan of some sorts.  Maybe even make their spectrum protection sites offer wireless broadband or something.

Edited September 23, 2015 by red_dog007

[JeffDTD]

Ergen has his hands out to anyone who will listen. Count on it. I cant see Verizon maintaining a working relationship with him.

 

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[Guest dustinfette]

Dish is not for sale

 

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[tybo31316]

Dish is not for sale

 

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Everything has a price.

 

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[Guest dustinfette]

Everything has a price.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6

Like I said dish isn't for sale. Charlie Ergen would never sale it.

 

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[Arysyn]

Like I said dish isn't for sale. Charlie Ergen would never sale it.

 

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If given the right price, he might. Unless of course he were to specifically say he's keeping it in the family, there is nothing saying he wouldn't.

[Arysyn]

I was looking at the AT&T site and considering what I'm going to do as a temporary solution to my T-Mobile problems, since I decided against getting the IPhone with Sprint and the only other smartphone I'm interested in with a Snapdragon 810 is a new Sharp device, if it is released for Sprint this year. Otherwise, I'm better off waiting until next year for a device with the Snapdragon 820 on Sprint, since those will be capable of 3x CA.

 

So, while over at the AT&T site, I looked at the rates offered on bundled services with DirecTv. The rebates offered seem like much better deals than what they are offering on the rate plan discounts, which might not AT&T much with content delivery. As Dish and Verizon seem to be very interested in content delivery, if they merge, hopefully they'd offer a better deal with rate plan discounts, besides the rebates.

 

Verizon would benefit from large families using Dish getting multi-lines from them by lowering the per line cost back down, and not just back to $15 each monthly, but $10 each monthly, as it was several years ago. Then for those with Dish, could get it at $5 each monthly. Then offer a better rate plan system similar to what I've mentioned before. This would be great in competing better against AT&T and in delivering an enticing deal to aid their content delivery plans.

 

I'll think of something and post here later of what I'd do with rate planning them together.

[Fraydog]

Does Verizon want a situation where Charlie Ergen is chairman of the board? I strongly doubt it. Could Charlie do a better job than Lowell McAdam, who might be in over his head at VZW?

 

Consider VZW overpaying to get out of Vodafone, having to shed assets like FiOS markets and towers, and then spending money on AOL and getting Go90 out of it. Verizon is a carrier that was a dumb pipe under Ivan Seidenberg but is now trying to be a content creator. Meanwhile they are still under massive debt. People criticize AT&T for their DirecTV and Mexican ventures but those cost half of buying off Vodafone.

 

I'm sure my Verizon bill money is going to buy some great LTE networks for Vodafone eventually. All McAdam had to do was continue the Seidenberg strategy of fiber and best wireless experience.

[WiWavelength]

All McAdam had to do was continue the Seidenberg strategy of fiber and best wireless experience.

 

Probably to stoke their own egos and justify their ridiculous compensation packages, CEOs, politicians, university leaders, athletic directors, etc., have to make their marks on their domains.  Maintaining and fostering the reasonable, even highly successful status quo is not enough.

 

AJ

[Fraydog]

Let me at least attempt to swing this to a business perspective. Verizon took a bunch of money out on OTT video and buying out Vodafone's share of their domestic wireless business. Imagine if they spent the Go90 money on additional fiber or cells. What "genius" MBA saw Go90 as a better ROI than fiber investment along with densification of the Verizon macro grid? I'm not saying Verizon isn't densifying, they are. They also have plans that are far more limited than most of their competition. No wonder why their speed test results are where they are at. Not many want to take out of their data bucket to test speed.

 

Verizon still has a glorious data network overall, but they could still have the fastest network crown. That's one award they never had to cede to T-Mobile. They could have, with Go90, further increased coverage advantages or loaded up more urban capacity.

 

Not that I'm backing e-peen as methodology all the sudden, but as far as race to sleep, and the play for urban users, VZW could have still been winning that crown.

 

The duopoly thought they would have a bunch of cash money they could use to conquer other businesses. Now with T-Mobile on the board as a legitimate competitor, they can't. Now neither AT&T and Verizon are in a great position to sacrifice margins. Neither AT&T nor

Verizon can focus on user experience that well either. They got beat by little ol T-Mobile on things like RCS, Advanced Messaging, call continuity on iOS, and even Sprint, which isn't near as along in their own network rebuild or disruptive strategy, still beat them to the punch on WiFi Calling.

 

Even if Sprint can't get porting positive off T-Mobile, they can still rip customers out of the duopoly. I am looking forward to the next quarterly report backing this up.

[Arysyn]

I like Fraydog's point of view on these issues, and this got me thinking more about these businesses strategies more in an overall sense of things, rather than just the specifics I had been focusing on. These decisions very well may turn out bad for Verizon, and to some degree they may very well have.

 

For instance, while analysts and others commenting on this, saying Verizon can't really lower rates further, because of their financial position and where they are at as an expensive business to maintain, along with being accountable to shareholders, I think Verizon has little choice but to lower rates to compete and will have to figure out how to make this all work.

 

One of the things is to expand their business somehow, in order to have additional revenue, and not just the limited revenue from AOL and their Go90, which I think will be more to be a way to keep customers more than to somehow gain a bunch of them. That is going to take lowering prices and giving more data as data consumption grows.

 

Verizon needs to acquire an additional service which already has plenty of subscribers and millions, if not billions of dollars in revenue. Dish is one of those options. There are a few others I'll mention later.

[Fraydog]

Welp, without the AOL buy, maybe Verizon can sacrifice margins a bit without hurting their dividend. Verizon cutting the dividend would make Wall Street cry bloody murder, of course.

[Arysyn]

I apologize for rushing through the end of my previous post, along with another one I had written earlier. I had to leave suddenly and am beginning to feel somewhat I'll. I may have caught a cold from being at the doctors yesterday. So if I'm going to be home in the next few days recovering, at least I'll have more opportunity to post and respond here.

 

I've mentioned quite a bit lately about Verizon acquiring Dish, and I believe not only do the benefits outweigh the negatives, but it is one of the few choices Verizon has, in order to have enough cash coming in to make its investors happy in the long term, as T-Mobile keeps on cutting into Verizon's wireless business, which only will be made worse when Sprint gets its network upgrades complete and ready to really put the hurt on all the carriers. AT&T at least has itself diversified enough to be able to make money for its investors without the reliance on wireless, despite that it's attention being elsewhere seems to be hurting its network.

 

However, Verizon seems to have made a decision to focus only on wireless and content for wireless, which just doesn't seem enough. It really isn't, and it is going to have to compete on price eventually, which is going to hurt its cash flow without an additional high volume revenue stream. In my previous post, I wrote I'd say here what I think one of those ideas, other than Dish might be.

[Arysyn]

I'm starting a new post with that information, since this device has shut off a few times while I've been typing. I've already lost a few posts because of it, though the situation with it hopefully will be resolved soon.

 

Anyways, someone other than me either here or at another site (I don't remember who or where exactly, though if its here and you are reading this, please remind me), mentioned the possibility of Verizon acquiring Sprint eventually. Now, I'm not saying I want that to happen. Actually, I'd much rather Softbank acquire T-Mobile and then merge it with Sprint. I also like the idea some analysts mentioned recently of T-Mobile and Sprint forming a network/spectrum holding company that would allow Sprint and T-Mobile to share the same network and spectrum. I think it would be a good idea for Verizon to do with Dish, which might actually benefit Verizon more than acquiring Dish would.

 

Yet, if Verizon doesn't get some form of major revenue source, they may try acquiring Sprint, even if its to protect them by means of further consolidation in the industry, with the money being secondary. That would help them not having to lower their rates as much, knowing they will have more control over the industry.

 

Then again, I'm also curious about AT&T trying again to acquire T-Mobile, as it would be a major benefit to them, and they have the cash to do so, probably more than Dish has for T-Mobile. Some may even say more than Softbank, though I believe alot of the negative talk about Softbank's finances are bias and unfair.

[Fraydog]

Please keep your content on this thread.

[Arysyn]

Please keep your content on this thread.

I don't understand? If this has to do with mentioning what someone else said, it was something they deserve the credit for getting me to think about. It wasn't my idea, so I mentioned it for that reason.

 

If it is something else I said/did, I'm confused.