Jump to content

IBEZ and Verizon


Recommended Posts

Quick question - why is sprint not able to deploy 800mhz in ibez areas like Seattle while Verizon is? Shouldn't Verizon have the same problem?

 

Verizon is not deploying in the SMR Band.  No one ever has deployed wideband operations in the SMR Band before Sprint.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Verizon deployed CLR which is essentially the universal cellular frequency globally. SMR frequencies interfere with frequencies used by government bodies here in select cities & with other radio services on the other side of the IBEZ (Mexico and Canada). Hope this helps!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quick question - why is sprint not able to deploy 800mhz in ibez areas like Seattle while Verizon is? Shouldn't Verizon have the same problem?

In addition the Canadians also adopted the same US bandplan and did their own spectrum auctions that cleared the same frequencies USA uses.

 

Canada public safety and the actual carriers like tellus and bell and whatnot are now in the process of refarming the band 25/26 spectrum from whatever ps setup and cdma to lte so that they and sprint can use the spectrum.

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 5

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh I see. One other question - if Nextel ran iden in the SMR band, why didn't that interfere with PS in Canada? How does using the band for LTE or CDMA change anything?

Edited by RAvirani
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh I see. One other question - if Nextel ran iden in the SMR band, why didn't that interfere with PS in Canada? How does using the band for LTE or CDMA change anything?

They used iDEN in Canada and the U.S. and Mexico in the SMR band. iDEN used really narrow 25kHz channels, that are interleaved. Meaning the uplink and downlink channels are mixed together.

 

These were coordinated together with our neighbors. However, Sprint was the first to break rank and need to move to wideband. So that is being done as a part of the rebanding of the SMR band. Our neighbors were given more time to make the move, thus the creation of the IBEZ. The IBEZ protects Canada and Mexico from American wideband operations in the SMR band. Also, American PS rebanders in the IBEZ were given more time too. There are still some in Washington State finishing up their rebanding.

 

CDMA and LTE use wideband channels with uplink and downlink in different sections of the band. You cannot run wideband and narrowband interleaved transmissions anywhere near each other. It's disastrous. The wideband will step all over the narrowband, making it nearly worthless. For 80-100 miles. Even more if broadcasting from a mountaintop.

 

Using Nexus 6 on Tapatalk

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quick question - why is sprint not able to deploy 800mhz in ibez areas like Seattle while Verizon is? Shouldn't Verizon have the same problem?

Verzion uses 850  for Voice  When  verzion reframes that to LTE it should be no problem. 850 is band 5 for LTE.

Edited by Tengen31
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been away for a long while on the forum here...  Question: So does this mean that Southeast Michigan will get 800MHz coverage soon too?  Wonder how long? Canada is literally only across the river so we were not lucky to ever have 800 MHz coverage under Sprint here.   So frustrating because Verizon has 700MHz and 850MHz all over the area.  

Edited by dro1984
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been away for a long while on the forum here...  Question: So does this mean that Southeast Michigan will get 800MHz coverage soon too?  Wonder how long? Canada is literally only across the river so we were not lucky to ever have 800 MHz coverage under Sprint here.   So frustrating because Verizon has 700MHz and 850MHz all over the area.  

 

Soon as in next year? Highly likely. 

 

Sprint is about finished in all it can do on the American side. It's up to Canadian cell carriers like Telus and Bell to refarm and shut down spectrum on their side along with whatever public safety agencies are doing up north. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Soon as in next year? Highly likely.

 

Sprint is about finished in all it can do on the American side. It's up to Canadian cell carriers like Telus and Bell to refarm and shut down spectrum on their side along with whatever public safety agencies are doing up north.

I hate the way that they haven't given us an actual timeframe ????. Soon™.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been away for a long while on the forum here...  Question: So does this mean that Southeast Michigan will get 800MHz coverage soon too?  Wonder how long? Canada is literally only across the river so we were not lucky to ever have 800 MHz coverage under Sprint here.   So frustrating because Verizon has 700MHz and 850MHz all over the area.  

 

 

Soon as in next year? Highly likely. 

 

Sprint is about finished in all it can do on the American side. It's up to Canadian cell carriers like Telus and Bell to refarm and shut down spectrum on their side along with whatever public safety agencies are doing up north. 

 

I'm not so sure about that.  All of East Michigan and part of West Michigan were NV1.0 setup with PCS only antennas.  It would require a rip and replace or additional antenna to support the ESMR spectrum that Sprint uses.  I think that major markets like Detroit, Flint, Lansing, Ann Arbor, Saginaw, etc would get some equipment replaced, but not every cell site.  The rural areas that really need it will probably be skipped over.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

I'm not so sure about that. All of East Michigan and part of West Michigan were NV1.0 setup with PCS only antennas. It would require a rip and replace or additional antenna to support the ESMR spectrum that Sprint uses. I think that major markets like Detroit, Flint, Lansing, Ann Arbor, Saginaw, etc would get some equipment replaced, but not every cell site. The rural areas that really need it will probably be skipped over.

There's no rules on the rulebook stating that Sprint cannot go back and replace existing antennas for new. A like for like antenna replacement takes practically no red tape to go through nor any lease negotiations. Quick and easy since everything is already installed on the tower. It'll be like the 2.5 deployment where one just installs antennas + radio and a LTE DU card in the base station. 1-3 day job. 

 

Sent from my Nexus 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's no rules on the rulebook stating that Sprint cannot go back and replace existing antennas for new. A like for like antenna replacement takes practically no red tape to go through nor any lease negotiations.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5

I agree 100% with that, I was thinking more along the money line.  Outside of the metro areas where Sprint has a larger customer base, will they spend the money to replace perfectly working antennas, tower crews, etc for cell sites that are not highly utilized?  Especially after just hanging antennas to support EBS/BRS right after NV1.0 was finished up.

 

Sprint has a great deal of spectrum in Michigan (8Mhz FDD EMSR, 40Mhz FDD PCS (B Block + G Block), & BRS/EBS (not sure on total Mhz), I just wish it could all be utilized.  :unsure:

 

I know metro Lansing has ESMR/PCS antennas, so they should just get turned on and tuned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree 100% with that, I was thinking more along the money line.  Outside of the metro areas where Sprint has a larger customer base, will they spend the money to replace perfectly working antennas, tower crews, etc for cell sites that are not highly utilized?  Especially after just hanging antennas to support EBS/BRS right after NV1.0 was finished up.

 

Sprint has a great deal of spectrum in Michigan (8Mhz FDD EMSR, 40Mhz FDD PCS (B Block + G Block), & BRS/EBS (not sure on total Mhz), I just wish it could all be utilized.  :unsure:

 

I know metro Lansing has ESMR/PCS antennas, so they should just get turned on and tuned.

 

Ofcourse. The existing antennas Sprint uses are AWS + PCS which can be recycled to other carriers either in the US or outside of the US.

 

Of all the things Sprint can cheap out on, having 800 mhz spectrum and not using it is something that even Sprint isn't that stupid to do. Why build a ton more cell sites for coverage when you get 800 mhz that can fill in dead zones so they can strategically fill in areas with new cell sites as needed. Remember it takes 2-3 1.9 GHz cells to cover about the same area as a 700/800 mhz cell. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ofcourse. The existing antennas Sprint uses are AWS + PCS which can be recycled to other carriers either in the US or outside of the US.

 

Of all the things Sprint can cheap out on, having 800 mhz spectrum and not using it is something that even Sprint isn't that stupid to do. Why build a ton more cell sites for coverage when you get 800 mhz that can fill in dead zones so they can strategically fill in areas with new cell sites as needed. Remember it takes 2-3 1.9 GHz cells to cover about the same area as a 700/800 mhz cell. 

 

I wasn't aware that Sprint was "recycling" equipment to other vendors.

 

I agree 100% with you on utilizing the ESMR, I just hope Sprint will pony up the capital investment in East Michigan and the Eastern edge of West Michigan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wasn't aware that Sprint was "recycling" equipment to other vendors.

 

I agree 100% with you on utilizing the ESMR, I just hope Sprint will pony up the capital investment in East Michigan and the Eastern edge of West Michigan.

 

Oh trust me. Equipment gets around nowadays. Wouldn't be surprised if a ton of the old legacy Sprint stuff got sold to 3rd world nations to deploy 2G / 3G and possibly even 4G networks. Some nations just can't afford thousands of dollars per antenna for deploying a cell network. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not so sure about that.  All of East Michigan and part of West Michigan were NV1.0 setup with PCS only antennas.  It would require a rip and replace or additional antenna to support the ESMR spectrum that Sprint uses.  I think that major markets like Detroit, Flint, Lansing, Ann Arbor, Saginaw, etc would get some equipment replaced, but not every cell site.  The rural areas that really need it will probably be skipped over.

 Jefbal99, let's hope that Sprint will handled things better now.  I'm sure with the new equipment installed, it won't take much to install 800MHz.  Robert, please tell me better news.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jefbal99, let's hope that Sprint will handled things better now. I'm sure with the new equipment installed, it won't take much to install 800MHz. Robert, please tell me better news.

After my disappointment of seeing a lack of ESMR equipment in NV1.0, I never get my hopes up anymore ;)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

I've been scratching my head about this ESMR stuff. I took a peek on Wikipedia and the FCC websites and I can't find a ESMR band, only a SMR frequency band(s). The only explanation of ESMR that I can find is that ESMR, or Enhanced Specialized Mobile Radio, is a type of radio or radio system that has additional capabilities to that of unenhanced two-way radio operation.

 

Getting to the question about 800MHz SMR band rebranding, I've found that it's difficult to find any information about the progress of rebranding on the Canadian side. Industry Canada's website (Canadian FCC) leaves a lot to be desired and I find it difficult to find the information I want. About a year ago, I went digging through the Industry Canada license database in what is to be rebranded spectrum and all I could conclude was that no new licenses were being issued since I believe sometime in 2012 for a portion the said spectrum and renewals were only a handful (see the post I made in my local market thread and the post below it http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/4171-network-visionlte-clevelandne-ohio-market/?p=348645 )

 

Fast forward to the present, 1x800 is starting to show up as of the past few weeks in the secondary IBEZ boundary here in OH and in the Akron and Youngstown, OH IBEZ exclusion zones. I'm not sure why Sprint waited so long to deploy in the exclusion zones other than they wanted to keep the Canadians happy and not cause any lick of interference (my guess). I'm somewhat discouraged of the local reaction to the progress (has mostly been "who cares about 1x, we want 800 LTE"), but I'm excited to see it showing up in more places because it means that LTE is just around the corner :D .

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

At this point, I doubt that they will have LTE band 26 deployed in Cleveland (or any other Canadian border area where they don't have band 26 deployed yet) by the end of the year.

Yea, at least in Seattle, they put special 1900 panels up and it will take a very long time to replace them with 800 panels, judging from how long the initial LTE rollout took. I'm not getting my hopes up for anything earlier than Q3 2016. Maybe Q2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been scratching my head about this ESMR stuff. I took a peek on Wikipedia and the FCC websites and I can't find a ESMR band, only a SMR frequency band(s). The only explanation of ESMR that I can find is that ESMR, or Enhanced Specialized Mobile Radio, is a type of radio or radio system that has additional capabilities to that of unenhanced two-way radio operation.

 

Getting to the question about 800MHz SMR band rebranding, I've found that it's difficult to find any information about the progress of rebranding on the Canadian side. Industry Canada's website (Canadian FCC) leaves a lot to be desired and I find it difficult to find the information I want. About a year ago, I went digging through the Industry Canada license database in what is to be rebranded spectrum and all I could conclude was that no new licenses were being issued since I believe sometime in 2012 for a portion the said spectrum and renewals were only a handful (see the post I made in my local market thread and the post below it http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/4171-network-visionlte-clevelandne-ohio-market/?p=348645 )

 

Fast forward to the present, 1x800 is starting to show up as of the past few weeks in the secondary IBEZ boundary here in OH and in the Akron and Youngstown, OH IBEZ exclusion zones. I'm not sure why Sprint waited so long to deploy in the exclusion zones other than they wanted to keep the Canadians happy and not cause any lick of interference (my guess). I'm somewhat discouraged of the local reaction to the progress (has mostly been "who cares about 1x, we want 800 LTE"), but I'm excited to see it showing up in more places because it means that LTE is just around the corner :D .

Don't confuse commercial licenses with public safety users. It's likely commercial rebanding is long over in Canada. However, if there is one Ontario public safety agency still out there, that can be the source of prolonging.

 

And it seems probable they are down to just one or two in Ontario, and they may be farther away from the border. That might be why you're seeing a move north on CDMA 800.

 

Or it could be they have moved enough on the Canadian side to no longer interfere with CH 476, thus allowing a start to CDMA 800 deploy. But not enough has been cleared for the 5MHz wide LTE carrier. We saw this happen many times in the U.S.

 

Or it could be a combination of both. The remaining Canadian narrowband SMR still bring broadcasted is now a little farther from the border, and doesn't interfere with CH 476. Allowing CDMA 800 to move farther north now.

 

It would be nice to have more info from Canada. But this is still a positive development.

 

Using Nexus 6 on Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yea, at least in Seattle, they put special 1900 panels up and it will take a very long time to replace them with 800 panels, judging from how long the initial LTE rollout took. I'm not getting my hopes up for anything earlier than Q3 2016. Maybe Q2.

It goes fast. Depending on the type of site, each crew can do one a day, some types two. They will either just switch out each panel from 1900 to 1900/800 or they will add an 800. Install an 800 RRU each sector. All virtually plug and play. If the do not add a panel, many cities won't even require a permit.

 

Using Nexus 6 on Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It goes fast. Depending on the type of site, each crew can do one a day, some types two. They will either just switch out each panel from 1900 to 1900/800 or they will add an 800. Install an 800 RRU each sector. All virtually plug and play. If the do not add a panel, many cities won't even require a permit.

 

Using Nexus 6 on Tapatalk

 

Even then - they've certainly got a lot of work cut out for them

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...