Network Vision/LTE - Swiftel Market (Sioux Falls/Sioux City/Brookings)

[WiWavelength]

Wow, not bad on an educated guess. Off by one.

 

 

There are a few other known Swiftel sites in South Dakota, but they are all south of Sioux Falls in the Sioux City BTA, which is part of the Des Moines MTA.

 

AJ

[S4GRU]

There are a few other known Swiftel sites in South Dakota, but they are all south of Sioux Falls in the Sioux City BTA, which is part of the Des Moines MTA.

 

AJ

Yeah, I only stayed in the Sioux Falls/Brookings corridor on this trip. So I kept my guess to the number of sites in that area based on my observations.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

[WiWavelength]

So, in Swiftel's 10 MHz disaggregation from Sprint, is it running two CDMA1X carriers and one EV-DO carrier, one CDMA1X carrier and two EV-DO carriers, or just one of each?

 

AJ

[WiWavelength]

Yeah, I only stayed in the Sioux Falls/Brookings corridor on this trip. So I kept my guess to the number of sites in that area based on my observations.

 

I will be interested to see if you find any new sites when you cross reference your observations with the known site coordinates.

 

AJ

[S4GRU]

So, in Swiftel's 10 MHz disaggregation from Sprint, is it running two CDMA1X carriers and one EV-DO carrier, one CDMA1X carrier and two EV-DO carriers, or just one of each?

 

AJ

I didn't take screen shots of it. I was busy taking screen shots of the 1x addresses in Signal Check. In my view of the Engineering screens, I was always on the same channel for 1x and EVDO, everywhere. So, I don't know if it was coincidentally just handing off to the same channels or if there is just one of each at every site.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

[S4GRU]

I will be interested to see if you find any new sites when you cross reference your observations with the known site coordinates.

 

AJ

Me too. I hope to add this to our maps this evening. I will be in the Sioux Falls/Sioux City corridor the July 25th weekend. Hopefully I'll have time to check some things out then.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

[WiWavelength]

I didn't take screen shots of it. I was busy taking screen shots of the 1x addresses in Signal Check. In my view of the Engineering screens, I was always on the same channel for 1x and EVDO, everywhere. So, I don't know if it was coincidentally just handing off to the same channels or if there is just one of each at every site.

 

When you are back in the area, remember my airplane mode toggle method for EV-DO.  That is the fastest, easiest way to initiate a new data session with a new EV-DO carrier hash.

 

My bet, though, is that Swiftel has done just the bare minimum.  It has enough spectrum for only three CDMA2000 carriers.  For years, it likely operated with only a single CDMA1X carrier, then added just one EV-DO carrier.  We shall see.  But the wise configuration in this smartphone era would be one CDMA1X carrier and two EV-DO carriers.

 

AJ

[S4GRU]

I have changed the name of the title since this really is the Swiftel thread.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

[Nickel]

2018, according to this article: http://www.brookingsregister.com/V2_news_articles.php?heading=0&page=76&story_id=5230

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

[bretton88]

Worse, the article says that Swiftel has been profitable so they have even less incentive to give into Sprint's requests.

[Nickel]

I think the endgame here is that Sprint and Swiftel will renew their contract and Swiftel will probably twist Sprint's arm into paying for most of the upgrades.

[WiWavelength]

I think the endgame here is that Sprint and Swiftel will renew their contract and Swiftel will probably twist Sprint's arm into paying for most of the upgrades.

 

Well, Sprint will have to do something because Swiftel has only 10 MHz of disaggregated spectrum.  It cannot do any upgrades on its own -- barring maybe 1.4 MHz FDD LTE.

 

AJ

[bretton88]

Well, Sprint will have to do something because Swiftel has only 10 MHz of disaggregated spectrum. It cannot do any upgrades on its own -- barring maybe 1.4 MHz FDD LTE.

 

AJ

That's good for what? 3.5G? Hard to call it 4G if they deployed that little bandwidth.

[Nickel]

Well, Sprint will have to do something because Swiftel has only 10 MHz of disaggregated spectrum.  It cannot do any upgrades on its own -- barring maybe 1.4 MHz FDD LTE.

 

AJ

What kind of handsets does Swiftel use? Rebranded Sprint handsets? because if they use Sprint handsets and then wait a year or two for upgrades, they could probably ditch EV-DO and run 1X and LTE

[S4GRU]

What kind of handsets does Swiftel use? Rebranded Sprint handsets? because if they use Sprint handsets and then wait a year or two for upgrades, they could probably ditch EV-DO and run 1X and LTE

 

Swiftel uses Sprint devices.  Swiftel does not have their own stores.  They are branded Sprint. though owned and staffed by Swiftel.

 

Robert

[S4GRU]

I will be interested to see if you find any new sites when you cross reference your observations with the known site coordinates.

 

AJ

 

I have added Swiftel to the NV Sites Complete map tonight.  There was only one Brookings site and one Sioux Falls site added to the original list you had.  If you scan the map, you'll see that they have a pretty lean deployment.  Brookings is covered fairly well, and Sioux City is pretty good.  As well as the south side of Sioux Falls.  But the north side of Sioux Falls and rural areas are very poor.

 

Robert

[Mr.Nuke]

Sioux City is pretty good.

It may have improved with OM03IP491 being 1x800 accepted since the last time I've driven it, but that coverage gap between Sprint's West Iowa/Nebraska territory and the Swiftel sites in Sioux City has always struck me as odd.

[S4GRU]

It may have improved with OM03IP491 being 1x800 accepted since the last time I've driven it, but that coverage gap between Sprint's West Iowa/Nebraska territory and the Swiftel sites in Sioux City has always struck me as odd.

 

With CDMA 800 fired up on the first site in Minnesota, the transition from Sioux Falls area to Sprint in the Dakotas market worked well.  So they should set up a handoff to the West Iowa/Nebraska market too.

 

Robert

[Nickel]

Swiftel uses Sprint devices.  Swiftel does not have their own stores.  They are branded Sprint. though owned and staffed by Swiftel.

 

Robert

I figured but didn't want to assume. So then that means that most of their phones are probably LTE capable now, so they might be inclined to do as I suggested and ditch EV-DO when they upgrade their equipment. 

[fastamx79]

I created an account to jump in this.  I moved to Sioux Falls 6 years ago, and currently am still out here.  Yes, the network is that bad.  Yes, you can have a full data signal and not even know how slow it's running because you'll end with with nothing but "check your data connection" messages.  3G didn't exist out here until Nov of 2009.  At the time it was nice.. pulling 2mpbs or more sometimes for download speeds.  Then it went to hell.

 

Then a few years ago when the original Evo was released you couldn't buy one out here because of a dispute between Swiftel and Sprint (I was able to because my billing address is still Chicago area)  But after a year or something they figured that out.  

 

So now you can have the best phones on Sprint, and experience it on the worst network in the US.  If it weren't for Wifi, and my Airave, my m8 would be worthless. Hell, when my brother comes to visit, he has T Mobile, and in Sioux Falls they only have Edge, and he was able to do more than I was!

I've called to complain many times, but it doesn't help because this isn't my "home" market.  If you talk to Swiftel, you'll either get ignored, or if someone does respond about the network, you're told "6 months to be fixed/upgraded", but they've been saying that now for the past two years.  Hell, it was 3 "6 months" before 3G was even turned on!

 

I wish they could use the Nextel sites out here for Sprint.  When I moved here I had Nextel and my coverage was amazing.  Plus it covered a huge chunk of the state.

[COZisBack]

I created an account to jump in this.  I moved to Sioux Falls 6 years ago, and currently am still out here.  Yes, the network is that bad.  Yes, you can have a full data signal and not even know how slow it's running because you'll end with with nothing but "check your data connection" messages.  3G didn't exist out here until Nov of 2009.  At the time it was nice.. pulling 2mpbs or more sometimes for download speeds.  Then it went to hell.

 

Then a few years ago when the original Evo was released you couldn't buy one out here because of a dispute between Swiftel and Sprint (I was able to because my billing address is still Chicago area)  But after a year or something they figured that out.  

 

So now you can have the best phones on Sprint, and experience it on the worst network in the US.  If it weren't for Wifi, and my Airave, my m8 would be worthless. Hell, when my brother comes to visit, he has T Mobile, and in Sioux Falls they only have Edge, and he was able to do more than I was!

I've called to complain many times, but it doesn't help because this isn't my "home" market.  If you talk to Swiftel, you'll either get ignored, or if someone does respond about the network, you're told "6 months to be fixed/upgraded", but they've been saying that now for the past two years.  Hell, it was 3 "6 months" before 3G was even turned on!

 

I wish they could use the Nextel sites out here for Sprint.  When I moved here I had Nextel and my coverage was amazing.  Plus it covered a huge chunk of the state.

 

You're in a market that has extreme minimal Sprint native coverage. Even when Network Vision is complete there, it more than likely will not meet your needs. In this particular instance it may be smart for you to explore other providers instead of complaining about the service you receive through Sprint. Our own Robert (S4GRU) has admitted that service in SD is not sufficient for his necessities, so we don't expect another member of SD to say otherwise.

[S4GRU]

I created an account to jump in this.

 

There is no way I would be a Sprint customer in Sioux Falls.  It is that bad.  And since Swiftel is a government entity, they will likely never be given the kind of capital from the City of Brookings that would be needed to upgrade its network to current Sprint standards.  However, Sprint will have to build out at least some PCS G-Block in this BEA to meet FCC build out requirements.  

 

So the question then becomes, will Swiftel be reasonable and work with Sprint on a plan to upgrade to Network Vision standards and host LTE on Sprint's PCS G-Block, or does Sprint have to do something completely on its own just to meet FCC build out requirements?

 

I'm not sure what the cost is to Sprint to cancel their contract with Swiftel early, but it seems to me it may be worth it and just buildout Sprint on old iDEN sites in East River.

 

Robert

[WiWavelength]

I created an account to jump in this.  I moved to Sioux Falls 6 years ago, and currently am still out here.  Yes, the network is that bad.

 

If you are a Sprint sub with a billing address in Chicago who is camping on Swiftel nearly full time, then you are largely bringing this upon yourself.  You are in no man's land.  Sprint cannot help you because you are on an affiliate network.  And Swiftel cannot help you because you are a Sprint sub.

 

AJ

[S4GRU]

OK, I decided to stop at the Sprint/Swiftel store yesterday while in East River. I popped in the store on the West side of the city off Louise Avenue after picking up a tasty white chocolate mocha espresso milkshake from the adjacent Coffeea Roasterie (highly recommend).

 

I figured I'd stop in and chat with the manager, which I just knew in advance would be a waste of time. But, being a Swiftel employee, I figured was worth a shot.

 

I asked to speak with a manager, and he said he was the manager on duty. I asked him if he was a Swiftel employee. He said he was but was wondering why I was inquiring.

 

I explained I ran a Sprint blog and was looking for any info regarding Swiftel's upgrade to LTE. And if he had any info. He sighed and said, that they have resorted to giving up telling customers about LTE. He said they basically don't sign up new customers anymore. They pretty much just service the unfortunate Sprint subscribers who move into the area from other places.

 

He said, as he understands it, Swiftel wants to sign a 15 year agreement extension in order to commit to the $180M upgrade they would have to do to upgrade to Network Vision and add all the LTE bands. He said since Swiftel is owned by a government agency, they would have to sell bonds to get money for the work. And most bonds require backing a 15 or 30 years of guaranteed revenues. 30 years is best to get good rates, but 15 years is pretty much the minimum based on their ratings and bond capacity.

 

He said, Sprint is willing to extend their agreement beyond 2018. But only an additional four years. He said this has created a stalemate. Swiftel cannot move forward with a four year agreement and get the funding they need. He has heard no further progress on discussions.

 

He said either the City of Brookings will try to sell Swiftel's wireless division (again), they will ride out the agreement until 2018 and Sprint will dump them, or Sprint will carry the debt for Swiftel and pay to upgrade themselves. And even if Sprint does pay for the upgrade themselves, it would be difficult for Swiftel, because that is a de facto loan, and would count against the City of Brookings bond capacity.

 

To me, it seems Sprint should buy Swiftel. If not, just pay off Swiftel the remainder of their profits on the 2018 agreement, cancel the agreement and overbuild using iDEN and Clearwire sites. And additional sites as needed. Having an affiliate who is a government agency is just not worth the trouble.

 

On another note, I highly recommend Bob's Cafe in Sioux Falls off 12th Street. Some of the best fried chicken I've ever had. Definitely a top ten. And that is saying something coming from me!!

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

[bretton88]

I'm surprised Sprint hasn't approached Brookings about buying Swiftel yet. For the right price, I'm sure the city would sell.