T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2

[Fraydog]

Come and get that Wi-Fi

Thy doth not get that H +

So mid-band or leave

Move to NYC

To get that 700

Oh come let us adore him, oh come let us adore him, oh come let us adore him, praise be ye Legere

 

 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[markjcc]

Move to NYC

To get that 700

Oh come let us adore him, oh come let us adore him, oh come let us adore him, praise be ye Legere

 

 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

I saw Legere kissing Wheeler

Underneath the mistletoe last night.

he didn't see me creep

down the stairs to have a peep;

he thought that I was tucked

up in my bedroom binge oning asleep.

 

Then, I saw Legere tickle Wheeler

Underneath his .... so snowy white;

Oh, what a laugh it would have been

If Marcelo had only seen

Legere kissing Wheeler last night...

[Arysyn]

Once upon a winter's night

Thus we had a terrible fright

Delivered to us a horrible sight

Of a man with magenta burning bright

 

For a T-Mobile villain approacheth near

Clad in a t-shirt adorned with symbols invoking fear

Carrying along a magenta-hued whip and spear

Carved on them the name "Property of John Legere"

 

Speaking foul words few journalists would print

He voiced words so very cruel about Sprint

Cursing all the carriers without giving a hint

Of the unspeakable horror he'd unleash during his "Uncarrier" stint

 

He spoke long into the night about points of customer pain

And what he'd do for their business he would obtain

Although despite all the money he and T-Mobile would gain

Not a single wireless network could even sustain

 

With data traffic flowing all night and all day

Not even optimization could keep congestion at bay

No matter how data strong the network they say

Or even the works of their CTO, Neville Ray

 

For a network needs much density and spectrum alike

And funding for T-Mobile doesn't have, hence the price hike

In order to spend on the network customers would like

With as little congestion amidst a data usage spike

 

Their network weaknesses they push to the side

And the financial realities which they try to hide

With "Uncarrier" moves that make data usages high like a tide

Along with network experiences which fall like a bad ride 

 

Yet not so much matters to St. John of the T-Cross

Especially since he thinks he is the best kind of a boss

Risking everything there is as just a simple game of toss

For his customers and shareholders hold the risk of possible loss

 

He'll just move on to another as he has done before

A well-paying job to him not so much than a simple chore

As long as he gets paid lots of money just to get into the door

Of his cushy new office as the new company whore

[derrph]

The t-mobile diehards are in panic because of the whole false advertising jumbo. Tmonews is a funny read today.

 

T-mobile can do no wrong.

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk

[Ascertion]

The t-mobile diehards are in panic because of the whole false advertising jumbo. Tmonews is a funny read today.

 

T-mobile can do no wrong.

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk

I've always thought it was stupid for them to claim "no contract" when you have a large final bill to pay off if you cancel service.  How is that any different than an ETF? 

[JeffDTD]

It comes down to how the advertising is worded. If you say "Bring your own device, no contract" then its correct. But as soon as you say "Get a Galaxy S6 for $0 ! Unlimited data! No contract!" then if we apply the same scrutiny that has been sweeping the lending industry since Dodd/Frank and the creation of the CFPB, it certainly qualifies to be considered either as an unfair, abusive, or deceptive act or practice. A contract , in these cases a lending note, is most certainly required to take advantage of the offer. To say "No contract! $99 for a smartphone! Unlimited!" would imply that the phone was bought for $99 and no note required. Lots and lots of magenta advertisements have pandered the no contract statement really, really hard. The writing is on the wall here. Expect this to keep going.

 

Its also not "just a financing agreement" if the note terminates upon ceasing service and is accelerated/ called due in full. There would be stronger basis to call it a financing agreement separate of a commitment to the carrier if the amortization period remained in place without active service.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[derrph]

The average consumer looks at things for what they are. They aren't going to do research. So walking into aT-Moble store they are going to want what they saw on tv but they end up having credit ran and then a 24 month phone payment IF they don't cancel service. So I can see where the issue is.

 

I just went and looked at a commercial and it does say that if service is cancelled the remaining balance is due but you dont notice it due to the flashing lights and crap. The other carriers aren't called out in this due to them not stating in advertisements no contract. So i guess you can say its not deceiving when a customer is given a 24 month installment plan for a phone but to each its own.

[NYC126]

 

 

 

This conversation is really interesting .

[maxsilver]

https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/3vx5fn/tmo_has_the_third_best_network_in_nyc_behind/

 

 

This conversation is really interesting .

 

This is pretty common. It's the VoLTE blocked call issue. I've mentioned this before.  T-Mobile has a provisioning issue where calls on VoLTE get blocked, even when data service is otherwise totally fine.

 

In data speeds, T-Mobile came in 2nd place. And T-Mobile's call reliability is also 2nd place, (less call drops than Verizon or Sprint, according to this RootMetrics report).

 

If they had fixed their VoLTE call blocked issue, they'd probably have ranked 2nd place. But because they still haven't fixed it yet, they're still recording these high blocked call numbers.

 

I don't think it's wrong at all for RootMetrics to penalize them for that.

[Fraydog]

What I wouldn't give for a network discussion with the word "reliability" right about now. It wasn't even mentioned by T-Mobile when they presented at the UBS conference in NY yesterday. People cite Ookla, but Ookla is terrible at measuring reliability. It doesn't. Even if Sprint ceased to exist, I'd feel that way. Verizon doesn't have the VoLTE blocked call issues, I know from using it.

 

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[maxsilver]

Verizon doesn't have the VoLTE blocked call issues, I know from using it.

 

T-Mobile doesn't have VoLTE blocked call issues either, in some markets. But in others, they're recording 1% or higher blocked calls, even when data service itself is equally OK.

 

As far as I can tell, this is not a VoLTE issue at all -- VoLTE itself is fine and very reliable.  It's a "T-Mobile is doing something weird specifically to their own VoLTE in many markets" issue.

[Fraydog]

T-Mobile doesn't have VoLTE blocked call issues either, in some markets. But in others, they're recording 1% or higher blocked calls, even when data service itself is equally OK.

 

As far as I can tell, this is not a VoLTE issue at all -- VoLTE itself is fine and very reliable. It's a "T-Mobile is doing something weird specifically to their own VoLTE in many markets" issue.

I think what shocks me is that Verizon has had pretty equal reliability if not better in my case for VoLTE. That said, Verizon is not going to run things like NumberSync and RCS/Advanced Messaging into the market until they are absolutely ready. It makes them appear they are less advanced than T-Mobile when in some ways like usage of small cells and C-RAN they're ahead of T-Mobile.

 

I want those features, sure. But I don't want to beta test them either.

 

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[JWMaloney]

What I wouldn't give for a network discussion with the word "reliability" right about now. It wasn't even mentioned by T-Mobile when they presented at the UBS conference in NY yesterday. People cite Ookla, but Ookla is terrible at measuring reliability. It doesn't. Even if Sprint ceased to exist, I'd feel that way. Verizon doesn't have the VoLTE blocked call issues, I know from using it.

This, a thousand times this. Last week someone on Reddit was trying to convince me that Ookla proves Sprint has reliable service in the New Orleans market.

 

On the T-Mobile side, what's up with the VoLTE call blocking? Does it not try to fall back to HSPA to complete the call (if it's available)?

[JWMaloney]

This conversation is really interesting.

Please update your link to np.reddit.com so that people don't get banned for following it and voting.

[reedacus25]

This is pretty common. It's the VoLTE blocked call issue. I've mentioned this before. T-Mobile has a provisioning issue where calls on VoLTE get blocked, even when data service is otherwise totally fine.

 

In data speeds, T-Mobile came in 2nd place. And T-Mobile's call reliability is also 2nd place, (less call drops than Verizon or Sprint, according to this RootMetrics report).

 

If they had fixed their VoLTE call blocked issue, they'd probably have ranked 2nd place. But because they still haven't fixed it yet, they're still recording these high blocked call numbers.

 

I don't think it's wrong at all for RootMetrics to penalize them for that.

How common is this? Reason for my asking is I've used VoLTE nearly ubiquitously since October of last year. There were definitely some hiccups in the first few months, but that seemed to be worked out by the end of the year, and the only real issue was in high mobility, not low mobility scenarios.

 

The only issues I have now are when my iPhone now on iOS 9 decides to poo itself and it nukes IMS registration over LTE or Wifi and I have to toggle airplane mode to remedy it. Even when that happens it falls back to UMTS for voice without much trouble, maybe a 5-10 second delay for it to pull its head out of its rear.

 

The reason I bring this up is because my market, New Orleans, is an area I have had no issues at all with VoLTE, or voice traffic in general, VoLTE or otherwise. Yet in 1H2015 (early March) T-Mobile's voice statistics were 0.1:0.4 blocked:dropped. This was when T-Mobile was still running at 5 MHz wide for their LTE RAN (2.5/2.8 Mbps down/up).

 

Fast forward to today and the LTE RAN has been widened to 10 MHz in the latest testing date (late August) and the speeds increase expectedly to 7.8/10.0 while calls go to 1.8/0.7. In that same time frame, T-Mobile has added over 10 new sites in the area, as well as modernizing remaining legacy sites that got skipped over.

 

My point being, I have used VoLTE and voice extensively with no issues of blocked calls, and have polled other users in my area, both Android and iOS for their feedback, and they too have not had issues with blocked calls, yet RootMetrics reports an 18x increase in blocked call failures, that I have not found. Even when I am in heavy load sectors where I get sub 1 Mbps down even on 15 MHz wide channels, VoLTE never hiccups.

 

I am not saying that the Root testing method is flawed, but I am saying that the fact that Call Blocking is up significantly nationwide after switching devices is highly suspicious. Could the devices not be functioning properly? Who knows, but it plays into the gloom and doom narrative of the "Post BingeOn Age" when I have seen nothing first hand across multiple markets to link these call blocking rates to anything of substance.

 

 

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[Fraydog]

Reed, could this be a difference in vendor hardware that explains this? The reason I ask is that in Midwest and Southern markets T-Mobile uses Nokia. Maybe the Nokia eNodeB's and EPC manages the VoLTE call reliability better. Nokia markets are arguably ahead of Ericsson ones all things considered. I wonder if T-Mobile using Ericsson in NY has an effect on call performance on VoLTE.

 

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[maxsilver]

How common is this? Reason for my asking is I've used VoLTE nearly ubiquitously since October of last year. There were definitely some hiccups in the first few months, but that seemed to be worked out by the end of the year, and the only real issue was in high mobility, not low mobility scenarios.

 

It's not "common" (I use VoLTE ubiquitously, I also rarely experience it). But it's more common than dropped calls, which happen even less often.

 

RootMetrics is saying that in NYC, 1.2% of calls are being blocked, or roughly "1 out of every 100 calls". I think sounds about right,  in my experience.

 

I have used VoLTE and voice extensively with no issues of blocked calls, and have polled other users in my area, both Android and iOS for their feedback, and they too have not had issues with blocked calls, yet RootMetrics reports an 18x increase in blocked call failures, that I have not found. Even when I am in heavy load sectors where I get sub 1 Mbps down even on 15 MHz wide channels, VoLTE never hiccups.

As far as I can tell,  It doesn't matter whether the site is busy or empty. It doesn't matter whether you have a good or bad signal. The network literally doesn't seem to matter at all.

 

It feels like a server in Bellevue is throwing an error that isn't caught. The phone won't fall back to HSPA+ (because it has a totally fine LTE signal with data and everything) but the call just doesn't go through.

 

If you hang up, immediately place the same call again (same tower, same reception, same phone number, same everything) it suddenly works fine, no issue.

 

 

 

could this be a difference in vendor hardware that explains this? The reason I ask is that in Midwest and Southern markets T-Mobile uses Nokia. Maybe the Nokia eNodeB's and EPC manages the VoLTE call reliability better.

http://www.rootmetrics.com/us/rsr/grand-rapids-mi/2015/2H is an example that comes to mind. T-Mobile Michigan is Nokia, right?

 

T-Mobile literally didn't drop a single call anywhere in the entire market in any of RootMetrics testing. But they placed last on call ranking due exclusively to call blocking (also at about 1%).

[EvanA]

According to Root they don't even test VoLTE yet. I'll try to find the tweet they made about it.

 

In other news, T-Mobile is really talking up BingeOn as innovative. See comments at UBS

 

https://np.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/3vxqs5/braxton_carter_cfo_mike_sievert_coo_neville_ray/

 

EDIT: Here's the tweet: https://twitter.com/rootmetrics/status/649734293023920128

[reedacus25]

 It's not "common" (I use VoLTE ubiquitously, I also rarely experience it). But it's more common than dropped calls, which happen even less often.

 

RootMetrics is saying that in NYC, 1.2% of calls are being blocked, or roughly "1 out of every 100 calls". I think sounds about right,  in my experience.

 

As far as I can tell,  It doesn't matter whether the site is busy or empty. It doesn't matter whether you have a good or bad signal. The network literally doesn't seem to matter at all.

 

It feels like a server in Bellevue is throwing an error that isn't caught. The phone won't fall back to HSPA+ (because it has a totally fine LTE signal with data and everything) but the call just doesn't go through.

 

If you hang up, immediately place the same call again (same tower, same reception, same phone number, same everything) it suddenly works fine, no issue.

 

http://www.rootmetrics.com/us/rsr/grand-rapids-mi/2015/2H is an example that comes to mind. T-Mobile Michigan is Nokia, right?

 

T-Mobile literally didn't drop a single call anywhere in the entire market in any of RootMetrics testing. But they placed last on call ranking due exclusively to call blocking (also at about 1%).

 

Whats interesting in the Grand Rapids example is that the call blocking (and dropping) both got better between 1H and 2H.

 

But then there are tons of locations where the call blocking rate "blooms" so to speak at ridiculously high rate, New Orleans being a good example.

 

T-Mobile in Michigan should all be NSN territory, correct.

 

Would be really nice if someone (Root) could compile the data into a CSV breaking down all the metrics per market, per carrier, per testing period, so that we could see period over period trends and change.

 

Would be really helpful in my opinion.

[reedacus25]

Reed, could this be a difference in vendor hardware that explains this? The reason I ask is that in Midwest and Southern markets T-Mobile uses Nokia. Maybe the Nokia eNodeB's and EPC manages the VoLTE call reliability better. Nokia markets are arguably ahead of Ericsson ones all things considered. I wonder if T-Mobile using Ericsson in NY has an effect on call performance on VoLTE.

 

I'd be lying if I said the thought hadn't crossed my mind before.

 

The issue I'm seeing in these Root reports is that its a mostly nationwide trend, spanning vendors. Traditionally I believe NSN markets were marginally better performers in reliability, but that would be anecdotal at best evidence with no real tangible evidence.

 

But even NSN markets are nose diving with Call Blocking. But most of this started with the change to the Note 4 for testing for T-Mobile. And has continued to be an issue in most cases. I mean pretty much everything in the Southeast pretty much rose in call blocking, the state of TN is a prime example. Look at Memphis, Nashville, and Knoxville, near perfect to really poor.

 

Something is aloof, and it sounds like VoLTE is not enabled? Something isn't right here.

[cortney]

According to Root they don't even test VoLTE yet. I'll try to find the tweet they made about it.

 

In other news, T-Mobile is really talking up BingeOn as innovative. See comments at UBS

 

https://np.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/3vxqs5/braxton_carter_cfo_mike_sievert_coo_neville_ray/

 

EDIT: Here's the tweet: https://twitter.com/rootmetrics/status/649734293023920128

 

YIKES. Good find! They're just testing the call quality we all use day to day (unless a T-Mobile user has a contact list full of T-Mobile users) and it's this bad. 

[lilotimz]

This an official notice to all to not continue derailing this thread. What occurs on other message boards, forums, or websites has no bearing to us here. This thread is to remain strictly for discussing the tmobile network and not other individuals considered "trolls". Take that to the off topic threads.

[Houston_Texas]

As for VoLTE, it has been working flawlessly for me. No issues whatsoever.

 

Sent from my SM-N910T

[joshuam]

VoLTE works great for me as well. I do have blocked wifi calls occasionally though.

[S4GRU]

I can have long waits for VoLTE calls to connect. Sometimes up to 30-40 seconds. I'm in a Nokia market. But I'm also in an active deployment area, and chalked it up to that.

 

At first I thought it was a blocked call, but if I wait, it will eventually go through. Although, yesterday, I was having the same problem with AT&T too.

 

Using Tapatalk on Note 8.0