T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2

[cortney]

Well on the bright side maybe this whole ordeal will serve as a good example to point to when people say stuff like "carriers overcharge for data and all carriers could serve unlimited @ $10 a month if they wanted to with no impact on the network blah blah conspiracy".

 

Also, this mess will obviously take time to spread. Obviously the trolls will still travel 10 miles to suburban or rural towers at 3-5AM to whine about how the speeds are still fine. Obviously some areas won't see much on an effect, maybe none at all until (if they even do) T-Mobile adds YouTube to the list. 

 

The moral of this whole mess pink has created will likely be that, yes, carriers can do more, but not unrealistic utopia offers. And also hopefully not a laundry list of NN violations. 

 

So once again, we'll continue to hope for a future of large and fair data buckets. Not gimmicks, not unlimited, not harshly priced tiers.

Edited November 28, 2015 by cortney

[MacinJosh]

Just watch what happens if AT&T/Verizon tries to offer a similar offer or even Sprint. T-Mobile will cry foul and the FCC will crack down on them for NN violations in a heartbeat. Wheeler is a men pleaser, and could be a T-Mobile customer at this point.

 

 

Sent from my Gold iPhone 6s Plus 128GB using Tapatalk

[gusherb]

If BingeOn ends up being a huge mistake you can bet it will quietly vanish or get heavily revised at the next "UnCarrier"

 

I should've taken my iPad with its T-Mo SIM with me when I entered the "war zone" today. Only network I had on me was AT&T and it was holding up just fine against the ravenous network clogging data hungry shoppers, about 15-20 Mbps. I'm sure Sprint wasn't even seeing a dent given their site over in the shopping area has 2xB41 live.

 

The UnCarrier was probably crawling along at only the finest DSL speeds of 2001.

[NYC126]

The Magentans screamed and made fun when Sprint implemented the 600k streaming on the unlimited plans especially the ALL IN. I guess the Sprint network guys understood that if you give customers the capability of streaming unlimited videos 24/7 the network would crumble.

[Ascertion]

The Magentans screamed and made fun when Sprint implemented the 600k streaming on the unlimited plans especially the ALL IN. I guess the Sprint network guys understood that if you give customers the capability of streaming unlimited videos 24/7 the network would crumble.

600kbps though wasn't even good for 240p. That's pretty bad.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X

[boiker]

If you live in Litchfiled Park, I think you'll find that t-mo's network leaves a lot to be desired in the West Valley.  I'm just a few miles North of you in Surprise, on Litchfield Rd, and t-mo is 2G in my house with unusable data.  Sprint's got 2 B41 carriers and B25. Just sayin, t-mobile is not going to solve your problem in West Phx. 

 

I really don't know what to do then. Sprint has a monster hole near me with unusable inside and outside data.  Apparently, no plans to fill the gap or upgrade the lone non network vision tower supporting the area.  Verizon for some reason is usually 1x in my house, 3G outside it.  T-mobile has poor tower density and apparently similar problems as sprint.  ATT is god damn expensive.

 

It really bothers me to be unable to stream music or get navigation directions and regularly drop calls with my sprint phone within the first 3 or 4 miles of my commute.  My friends have T-mobile and their service has always been faster than mine.  Went to the movies this weekend with them at Park West.  They have 4-bar LTE indoor, I had 2 bar 3G.

[cortney]

ATT is god damn expensive.

 

Well, their postpaid service (without a good discount) is unreasonable, very much like Verizon. However, if you could use them for a secondary line, GoPhone, Cricket and other MVNOs are actually quite reasonable. Or, if you can go without HD voice which most people can't even use anyways and can buy devices outright or have a device to bring, you can bring your primary line if needed. I believe Consumer Cellular has roaming if you need that. 

 

If you went the Cricket route, that's $50/$60 AFTER taxes for 5/10GB. And subtract 5 bucks for autopay discount, and then even more if you have more than one line. GoPhone also has an autopay discount. Consumer is better for lower usage. 

[cortney]

Congestion? No, no, this is their new service: GreenOn - slower data saves energy. it'll play really well with millennials, like John.

 

GreenOn: What are you Sprint trolls talking about? We don't want faster speeds anymore. We want efficency. You see how good we are. We're good for consumers AND the environment. But we'll still have speed test hour every day at 3AM. 

 

Part one of GreenOn: Download speeds at 1 Mbps. There's nothing you can't do with a magenta 1 Mbps. 

 

Part two: Upload speeds at 128 KB/s. Coming soon.

[maxsilver]

Just watch what happens if AT&T/Verizon tries to offer a similar offer or even Sprint. T-Mobile will cry foul and the FCC will crack down on them for NN violations in a heartbeat.

AT&T charges providers for their zero rating, and the FCC hasn't done anything about it. (http://www.att.com/att/sponsoreddata/en/index.html)

 

I'd guess there's zero chance that the FCC will strike down any similar offers that any carrier makes. In fact, it's unlikely that the FCC would enforce much of anything in the future related to Net Neutrality, for any cellular carrier.

[EvanA]

The one and only milan03 on why BingeOn won't break the network, complete with anecdotal evidence.

 

https://np.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/3unrek/personal_thoughts_on_binge_on_in_dense_urban/

 

Note this a NP (no participation) link. Commenting and voting is not allowed.

[cortney]

The one and only milan03 on why BingeOn won't break the network, complete with anecdotal evidence.

 

https://np.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/3unrek/personal_thoughts_on_binge_on_in_dense_urban/

 

Note this a NP (no participation) link. Commenting and voting is not allowed.

 

He has a very strong bias for T-Mobile and secondarily Verizon. I tend to wonder if he has employment or other affiliations with either or both, past or present. 

 

You have to give him credit: if you want anecdotal evidence to make you feel like T-Mobile is the greatest thing in the world, he can deliver. 

[NYC126]

He has a very strong bias for T-Mobile and secondarily Verizon. I tend to wonder if he has employment or other affiliations with either or both, past or present. 

 

You have to give him credit: if you want anecdotal evidence to make you feel like T-Mobile is the greatest thing in the world, he can deliver. 

That is why I refer him as the Tmobile CTO. He has taken pictures in the roof of New york city buildings next to TMobile towers. Tell me unless you are connected to the pink carrier you won't be allowed to be in those type of situations.  Of course he has to make a statement  to calm down the T shills. 

 

 

spectrum is a finite resource  and a 20x20  LTE network won't be untouchable from congestion.  I wonder where they will get the spectrum to keep growing since they managed to piss Dish.

[Houston_Texas]

Sent from my SM-N910T

[maxsilver]

The one and only milan03 on why BingeOn won't break the network, complete with anecdotal evidence.

 

To be fair, we're only seeing anecdotal evidence the other way too. 

 

Everyone is just assuming all congestion must be caused by BingeOn, even though T-Mobile is adding a couple million subscribers every quarter, has skipped out on backhaul upgrades in some areas, and has very little spectrum growth. 

 

Congestion is happening in places, we're seeing that. But I strongly suspect those are the causes, and 

 

---

 

I understand people's assumption of "abuse" causing problems. Previous unlimited plans often weren't throttled. Just one or two "abusers" could soak up an entire sector, and we've likely all seen that happen firsthand in the past. But  BingeOn is so heavily throttled that it's literally impossible for one or two people to impact the network in any way.

 

Let's do some napkin math : Even if T-Mobile only had 10+10 LTE in a given market, (assuming 900kbps average 480p video stream) a single 3-sector site could have more than 150 people on it "abusing" BingeOn 24/7/365, and the 151st user could still pull down an average 6-12mbps on a speedtest (assuming good signal and available backhaul).  

 

That's roughly 15-20% of all T-Mobile's subscribers nationwide (per site, on average) who could all "abuse" BingeOn simultaneously before there was a problem. And that's assuming the worst-case spectrum scenario (most markets have much more than just 20mhz. In many markets, you'd need roughly 50% of subscribers, all streaming *simultaneously* before there's a problem).

  

Even being heavily-pessimistic with the math, it still works out OK for quite a while.

[Arysyn]

I'll post a brief update regarding my phone situation, then move on to my opinion of the Binge-On stuff.

I'm waiting for Monday, when my mother is going to call the T-Mobile ER executive she spoke with, and see if he is going to accept the offer we wanted to get a few years ago, seeing that this guy seems to really want us back on T-Mobile. My mother said she had spoken with him for over an hour the other day, and he offered her to be her main contact point with all issues, so he seems to really want us to stay on. After all, my mother has had T-Mobile prepaid for several years and has spent over $9,000 on the service. I want him to give us the Select Value Unlimited Talk, Text, and Unlimited 4G plan at $45 monthly, they were giving to loyalty customers a few years ago. Otherwise, we may be waiting for awhile without phone service, until AT&T gets the Kyocera Duraforce XD available. She's been going over to her sister's to make phone calls, which has been a bit inconvenient.

Anyways, this Binge-On thing really is ridiculous. I can't imagine that the "optimization" is going very well for T-Mobile with the hard hits in reductions to data speed it has been getting in many areas. While I'm sure it has increased video traffic, I'l admit I'm skeptical it has brought that much more increased traffic, in terms of the amount of users using Binge-On, especially since it has been noted quite a bit about how poor the video quality is Sure, it is free, and there probably are some people using it, but I'm doubtful that it is that much. I'm thinking more along the lines of there being a problem with the "optimization" itself, not technically doing what it was meant to do for T-Mobile in properly reducing network strain. Therefore, just somewhat of increased video traffic likely is enough to strain their network, with or without the "optimization".

I know I say this quite often here about speed-capping data, but I believe it would have a much more positive affect on the network to do an across the board reasonable speed cap of 15mbps, if not for my variable speed cap idea, then removing these "free" but Net Neutrality-testing services, such as Binge-On and Music Freedom. Replace these, along with unlimited data hogging high-speed plans, with a very fair base price point at $45 per line, including 15gb, which is a much better value than free music and cheap-looking video streams. Offer a fair, affordable overage rate of $1.50 per 1gb. or one of two speed-capped unlimited data add-on options of either 1.5mbps for $15 per line or 3mbps for $30 per line, which can be turned on/off at any time, off which uses the included data or overage data. Also, include all taxes and fees into these prices, so people know exactly what this is going to cost them based on their usage, without having to calculate taxes and fees. That being a "customer pain point" I'm surprised John Legere hasn't implemented an "uncarrier" fix for yet.

When John Legere became CEO, he said he was gong to simplify these plans, which he initially tried to do by incorporating most of the old plans into the Simple Value, while adding the "Simple Choice" pricing structure, which then became both more expensive, alongside adding several promotional plans which are very complex. However, even the initial "Simple Choice" was complex in all of the additional line options between the choices of such amounts of high-speed data, unlimited, etc. Having additional options is not the problem, but rather the type of options. Later on the inclusion of certain additional services, such as international calling became iffy on whether that was included or not. Just make it simple by either including it on all plans or having it optional on all plans. On my idea, unlimited international calling/texting would be $15 per day, data at $15 per 1gb. Not everyone needs it, so why should everyone pay a higher rate to subsidize it.

Also, get rid of "Jump" and "Jump On Demand". Just have the eip for phone ownership be as it is with people paying off the full price of the device. If they want the flexibility of switching without having to pay off their device, have a simple, one-year lease option the company can get better payback off of after one year than with two years. Have the leasing rate be $5 monthly for every $100 of the device MSRP, rounded up. A $649-$699/$700 device would be $35 monthly for one year. Quite reasonable. No need for fancy naming. This is what I like about Sprint. For the most part, the naming of their plans and services are very basic in saying what it is, unlike T-Mobile's use of propping up their offerings to excite their Magentan fans. T-Mobile really ought to go back to being run as a business company, not as a cult. My ideas certainly would help to take it back to that, as long as John Legere either leaves or becomes what he really ought to be,what he's being paid to do, which s be the CEO of T-Mobile. Not the Jim Jones of wireless.

[reedacus25]

I'm waiting for Monday, when my mother is going to call the T-Mobile ER executive she spoke with, and see if he is going to accept the offer we wanted to get a few years ago, seeing that this guy seems to really want us back on T-Mobile. My mother said she had spoken with him for over an hour the other day, and he offered her to be her main contact point with all issues, so he seems to really want us to stay on. After all, my mother has had T-Mobile prepaid for several years and has spent over $9,000 on the service. I want him to give us the Select Value Unlimited Talk, Text, and Unlimited 4G plan at $45 monthly, they were giving to loyalty customers a few years ago. Otherwise, we may be waiting for awhile without phone service, until AT&T gets the Kyocera Duraforce XD available. She's been going over to her sister's to make phone calls, which has been a bit inconvenient.

I'm a little curious as to what entitles you to a very limited targeted rate plan for loyal customers on legacy rate plans. You've spoken plenty about network abuse, and this is billing abuse.

 

I'm all for getting a deal, but wasting internal resources time trying to hem and haw because you want to be treated special because you don't want to pay the going rate for what you want is abuse of the system.

 

As a postpaid customer of 11 years paying simple choice rates, what makes you more eligible for a special rate than I?

[luvixuha]

I'm a little curious as to what entitles you to a very limited targeted rate plan for loyal customers on legacy rate plans. You've spoken plenty about network abuse, and this is billing abuse.

 

I'm all for getting a deal, but wasting internal resources time trying to hem and haw because you want to be treated special because you don't want to pay the going rate for what you want is abuse of the system.

 

As a postpaid customer of 11 years paying simple choice rates, what makes you more eligible for a special rate than I?

Meh. The guys life sucks if I'm recalling previous posts correctly, so I'm okay with him getting a good deal on a better network.

 

But it is a bit hypocritical to slam a company and its leadership so hard and then desperately try to get service there.

Edited November 29, 2015 by luvixuha

[mellimel2212]

BingeOn is bringing T-Mobile to its knees. Soon they will be demanding free/reduced price spectrum from the FCC, and since the FCC chairman thinks BingeOn is innovative, watch out.

 

 

Sent from my Gold iPhone 6s Plus 128GB using Tapatalk

Wow it's amazing how wrong u is bro. This is just 20x20 b4 alone. No CA either.

 

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Core Prime on MetroPCS using Tapatalk

[Fraydog]

Literally all the evidence in either direction on BingeOn is ancedotal at this point. I don't see a big base of data either way.

 

That said, we could be early in the process of people finding out about BingeOn. It will be interesting to see what happens when more people know about this service.

 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[MacinJosh]

Wow it's amazing how wrong u is bro. This is just 20x20 b4 alone. No CA either.

 

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Core Prime on MetroPCS using Tapatalk

"How wrong u is"? Seriously? You can't even type proper English? I can't imagine how impossible it is to speak with you in person. And just because your market is still running well is not indicative of the network as a whole. So please quit deceiving yourself.

 

 

Sent from my Gold iPhone 6s Plus 128GB using Tapatalk

[mellimel2212]

"How wrong u is"? Seriously? You can't even type proper English? I can't imagine how impossible it is to speak with you in person. And just because your market is still running well is not indicative of the network as a whole. So please quit deceiving yourself.

 

 

Sent from my Gold iPhone 6s Plus 128GB using Tapatalk

That was a such thing called a typo. And who is talking about Grammer this isn't English class. U said Tmobile speeds are slowing. I posted a speed test of a Tmobile line getting faster speeds JUST on band 4 than I saw sprint or att on multiple bands.

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Core Prime on MetroPCS using Tapatalk

[mellimel2212]

"How wrong u is"? Seriously? You can't even type proper English? I can't imagine how impossible it is to speak with you in person. And just because your market is still running well is not indicative of the network as a whole. So please quit deceiving yourself.

 

 

Sent from my Gold iPhone 6s Plus 128GB using Tapatalk

And just because your backwoods area is doing bad it doesn't reflect the use of others either. So can u please stop spreading bs. U are sounding more and more like a fan boy every thread.

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Core Prime on MetroPCS using Tapatalk

[MacinJosh]

That was a such thing called a typo. And who is talking about Grammer this isn't English class. U said Tmobile speeds are slowing. I posted a speed test of a Tmobile line getting faster speeds JUST on band 4 than I saw sprint or att on multiple bands.

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Core Prime on MetroPCS using Tapatalk

And like I said, your market is one out of many in this country.

 

 

Sent from my Gold iPhone 6s Plus 128GB using Tapatalk

[mellimel2212]

And like I said, your market is one out of many in this country.

 

 

Sent from my Gold iPhone 6s Plus 128GB using Tapatalk

So is yours. Point blank it's to early to tell if binge on is having a negative impact on the network.

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Core Prime on MetroPCS using Tapatalk

[MacinJosh]

And just because your backwoods area is doing bad it doesn't reflect the use of others either. So can u please stop spreading bs. U are sounding more and more like a fan boy every thread.

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Core Prime on MetroPCS using Tapatalk

 

Hey, in my backwoods area, T-Mobile has twice the cell sites as Sprint. They use microwave backhaul here, as well as Verizon. All 4 carriers here have issues. I'm not even speaking of my market.