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T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2


lilotimz

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Translation:  We have a lot of areas of "No Service" and prefer not to pay the roaming costs that would be incurred in those areas.

 

AJ 

I can attest to "no service" when looking at friend's phones as soon as we leave Pittsburgh metro.

I may have roaming indicator but at least I can make an emergency phone call if I needed it.

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While I can't speak to the quality of the coverage, it's darn impressive they've covered 300MM pops by the end of October - any way you measure it.

 

All around, the stats are impressive.  While we can debate the quality of covering 300MM pops, the financials are what they are, and they're damn impressive.

 

. . .

 

Bottom line - this is a good thing.  If T-Mobile can do it, there is no reason why Sprint can't do it better given Sprint's far superior spectrum position.

 

Sprint and T-Mobile are trading places -- in both perception and reality.  We have already seen Sprint drop to fourth, T-Mobile rise to third.  T-Mobile finally is improving its rural network beyond "2G" -- much like Sprint did twice over, first with EV-DO, then with LTE.  And in the near future what I see Sprint becoming is the "city" operator -- much like T-Mobile has been for the last several years.  Sprint is not going to engage in a massive rural buildout.  Sprint will focus its ample band 41 resources on cities, aim to be the network speed/capacity king in those cities, and try to thrive in that category.

 

AJ

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Sprint and T-Mobile are trading places -- in both perception and reality.  We have already seen Sprint drop to fourth, T-Mobile rise to third.  T-Mobile finally is improving its rural network beyond "2G" -- much like Sprint did twice over, first with EV-DO, then with LTE.  And in the near future what I see Sprint becoming is the "city" operator -- much like T-Mobile has been for the last several years.  Sprint is not going to engage in a massive rural buildout.  Sprint will focus its ample band 41 resources on cities, aim to be the network speed/capacity king in those cities, and try to thrive in that category.

 

AJ

 

You sound bearish on Sprint. Will they not pursue a rural build out because they believe what they have plus the rural carrier alliance is enough? Or, not enough resources to build metro and rural? You say TMo is building up its rural network. Is it building out too?

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From what I hear, Sprint only has roaming agreements with another EvDo carrier in SD, at least where Robert lives.

 

Where Robert lives in South Dakota, Sprint roams on VZW.  Most Sprint PRLs limit that roaming to CDMA1X, though some PRLs allow EV-DO.

 

AJ

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I'm not a big T-Mobile follower and don't know much about their service. What is the general consensus complaint about T Mobile's coverage claims? Are they just exaggerating the coverage areas where they are at or are they parsing some technical argument that gives them a claim to coverage that doesn't exist? I'm just curious.

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Are they just exaggerating the coverage areas where they are at or are they parsing some technical argument that gives them a claim to coverage that doesn't exist? I'm just curious.

160 million people (half of the US population) live in just the blue counties shaded on this map: http://www.businessinsider.com/half-of-the-united-states-lives-in-these-counties-2013-9

 

300 million is trickier, but just imagine that another substantial portion of people live near/around those blue counties. The last 20 million people live in the boonies.

 

You say TMo is building up its rural network. Is it building out too?

T-Mobile is building out 300,000 square miles of brand new coverage by year-end 2015. This includes parts of Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota (three states where they never had any presence), the northern half of Michigan including the Upper Peninsula, and new sites randomly throughout their existing markets to bulk up coverage. 700,000 square miles of LTE will be coming from 2G->LTE and HSPA->LTE conversions on their existing footprint.

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You sound bearish on Sprint. Will they not pursue a rural build out because they believe what they have plus the rural carrier alliance is enough? Or, not enough resources to build metro and rural?

 

Maybe Sprint would pursue a massive rural buildout if VZW attempted a merger with Sprint that was blocked, thus Sprint lucked into a $6 billion breakup fee.

 

If you catch my drift...

 

AJ

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Maybe Sprint would pursue a massive rural buildout if VZW attempted a merger with Sprint that was blocked, thus Sprint lucked into a $6 billion breakup fee.

 

If you catch my drift...

 

AJ

It's also worth noting that in the this scenario, Verizon would have halted any in progress network upgrades for Sprint for 9 months, while they were in the midst of a very large 3G overlay (obviously speaking about T-Mobile here, but we could apply NV to the scenario as an example), thus stunting growth significantly as a competitive advantage.

 

While that cash and later spectrum were then used to set the plan for LTE modernization in motion, you can blame a lot of the EDGE only areas from never getting 3G love on the ATT merger.

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"Uncarrier 10" announcement on 10 november.

 

https://newsroom.t-mobile.com/news/un-carrier-x-coming-november-10.htm

 

Theme: "We never hit pause"

There also is this article from TmoNews about it here :

 

http://www.tmonews.com/2015/10/t-mobile-un-carrier-10-coming-november-10/

 

I've been reading the comments section there, where alot of people seem to think it has something to do with "Video Freedom". I sort of believe this might happen, but not how people might think.

I suspect this as another cheap ploy by John Legere that while many people (mostly ignorant Magentans) will rave about how great this is, while John Legere forces a speed cap on video at all times.

 

I suspect that John Legere might claim that since the speed is "usable" the notion it doesn't count against people's data plans, will make it "such a great, bold un-carrier move which continues to cut out all the crap tactics the duopoly uses by charging its customers expensive data just to watch video, blah, blah, blah."

 

I also believe this speed cap for video may be somewhere between 3mbps to 9mbps, which I know many people here may think "What's really the problem with that", especially since it might help the network and further restrict video/data hogs. However as I mentioned, I believe this will be across the board on all plans, at least the post-paid ones.

 

Since T-Mobile doesn't offer any plan that allows for limitless per gb data expansion, there won't be any choice for people to pay for high-speed video. Sure, it'll help the network, but it'll be a bold move away from AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint's (current plans at least) consumer choice. If T-Mobile does this, it'll be a major deal, one that'll have people split on different sides in viewpoints of this issue.

 

Now you know what I think of this before it happens (if it does).

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You sound bearish on Sprint. Will they not pursue a rural build out because they believe what they have plus the rural carrier alliance is enough? Or, not enough resources to build metro and rural? You say TMo is building up its rural network. Is it building out too?

There is no way for AJ or Robert to be bearish on Sprint. In all fairness, despite my disagreements from time to time with AJ, Robert, and a few others of the S4GRU staff, I'd never, ever question their commitment, dedication, and even loyalty to helping spread awareness of Sprint knowledge through this site, nor even to Sprint itself.

 

If Robert could get Sprint where he lived, he would. AJ in all of his ways of posting here, above all is fair towards Sprint and certainly not bullish. He knows to state facts about the Sprint network, which no one here would deny its flaws, but to reasonably state its current condition in various areas, good or bad. Although, with the point being that things are progressing well with the Sprint network, without dwelling about its past.

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If T-Mobile were to obtain the AB License Co 700A spectrum, that would be in these markets:

 

Norfolk

Macon (WSST)

Pensacola (WBIF)

New Orleans

Baton Rouge

Fayetteville AR

Vegas

Phoenix (KPPX)

Tucson

San Diego

 

The parentheses indicate TV channel 51 stations that may need to be relocated.

 

- Trip

 

Will be done soon according to Legere in the Q3 2015 CC with an agreement in principle with AB License CO to acquire all those markets.  Exciting news indeed.  Hopefully Continuum and Cavalier are next.

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It's also worth noting that in the this scenario, Verizon would have halted any in progress network upgrades for Sprint for 9 months, while they were in the midst of a very large 3G overlay (obviously speaking about T-Mobile here, but we could apply NV to the scenario as an example), thus stunting growth significantly as a competitive advantage.

 

While that cash and later spectrum were then used to set the plan for LTE modernization in motion, you can blame a lot of the EDGE only areas from never getting 3G love on the ATT merger.

 

Yeah, well, that probably is not as true as you assert.  Even today, T-Mobile still is not doing a full "3G" overlay.  Many of the rural sites are remaining GSM with ground mount band 2 LTE.

 

AJ

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Yeah, well, that probably is not as true as you assert. Even today, T-Mobile still is not doing a full "3G" overlay. Many of the rural sites are remaining GSM with ground mount band 2 LTE.

 

AJ

If you want to see that, I point you to Jackson, MS where they didn't even get Brandon, Clinton, Byram, Raymond, or Canton 3G overlain. ATT cut them off at the knees on that market. I only speak specifically about this market because I have definitive info regarding it and experience with the market.

 

By 2012, LTE was the focus, and thus they punted on most 3G overlay in lieu of taking their modern core to modernized standards to better align with their future banding (L2100, U1900 instead of U2100), as well as quickly turn those markets around with FTTT already in place. After that was substantially complete, the quick and dirty L1900 overlay was begun.

 

This is not to say that I don't lament the lack of UMTS or RRH in the L1900 GMO territories, but for most scenarios it is "good enough". Slingbox from Brooksville, MS to New Orleans, LA with one dropout north of Lauderdale, MS is a testament of it being good enough.

 

T-Mobile has clearly made a two tier network the plan with their L1900 layer, that will be propped up for a while with L700 in lots of areas.

 

Again, I am not going to say that I don't know that it could be better, or even should be better, but it's firing on enough cylinders to achieve the majority of the intended goal.

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Maybe Sprint would pursue a massive rural buildout if VZW attempted a merger with Sprint that was blocked, thus Sprint lucked into a $6 billion breakup fee.

 

If you catch my drift...

 

AJ

 

Agreed - but given Sprint Management at the time, I suspect it would have been Sprint owing Verizon money as part of a breakup fee, haha.

 

It was as much AT&T's arrogance as it was T-Mobile's unusual ability to negotiate such a large breakup fee to begin with.

 

Good discussion though - I agree with all of your points.

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I can attest to "no service" when looking at friend's phones as soon as we leave Pittsburgh metro.

I may have roaming indicator but at least I can make an emergency phone call if I needed it.

 

The "No Service" areas are not just outside of metros.  They are in cities inside buildings, in wooded areas, behind hills, down in valleys, etc.  Because at T-Mobile our mantra is "We do not do in market roaming.  We would rather leave you with 'Emergency Calls Only.'"

 

AJ

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Translation:  We have a lot of areas of "No Service" and prefer not to pay the roaming costs that would be incurred in those areas.

 

AJ 

 

Funny enough, I said the same exact thing in the Marcelo thread.

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You sound bearish on Sprint. Will they not pursue a rural build out because they believe what they have plus the rural carrier alliance is enough? Or, not enough resources to build metro and rural? You say TMo is building up its rural network. Is it building out too?

 

I don't think we will see a huge meaningful buildout of new areas just yet, as the focus is on the urban and finishing up all the pesky Network Vision sites. 

 

One has to remember that the majority of T-Mobile's "rural expansion" has come from just slapping LTE on existing 2G sites, not necessarily deploying brand new cell sites.

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Fixed that for you [emoji6]

 

Well, here is a tit for tat for some members in another thread once again bemoaning current Sprint handsets' lack of simultaneous voice and data -- except when on Wi-Fi for data.

 

Good luck, T-Mobile users, finding Wi-Fi for voice and data inside those buildings, in those wooded areas, behind those hills, and down in those valleys.

 

AJ

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Well, here is a tit for tat for some members in another thread once again bemoaning current Sprint handsets' lack of simultaneous voice and data -- except when on Wi-Fi for data.

 

Good luck, T-Mobile users, finding Wi-Fi for voice and data inside those buildings, in those wooded areas, behind those hills, and down in those valleys.

 

AJ

What do you think all those LTE equipped cars are being used for? [emoji3]

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What do you think all those LTE equipped cars are being used for? [emoji3]

 

Yes, thanks to an LTE equipped car, T-Mobile users will have Wi-Fi down in the valley about 10 seconds from now...

 

 

AJ

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