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T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2


lilotimz

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Who's to blame for this?

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/sirius-t-mobile-spat-over-airwave-interference-1443649368

 

"Sirius XM customers in a few big cities have been complaining about losing their satellite radio signal and the company says it has found the culprit: interfering T-Mobile cellphone towers. "

 

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

 

This little squabble seems vaguely reminiscent of the Lightsquared vs GPS industry saga.

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Are you sure the OTA television antennas aren't interfering with the satellite services, since there is a big boom in the comeback of OTA television...

 

I am sure that you are joking.  But others may not get it.  To be clear, OTA VHF and/or UHF antennas are receive only.  They cannot cause interference.

 

AJ

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This little squabble seems vaguely reminiscent of the Lightsquared vs GPS industry saga.

 

To provide some technical insight, the conflict is more vaguely reminiscent than closely connected.

 

The LightSquared vs GPS issue dealt with basically adjacent channel interference.  Adjacent spectrum uses need to be of roughly similar power levels.  The problem is that LightSquared downlink would be on terra firma, while GPS downlink would be coming from thousands of miles in outer space.  Being adjacent to one another, that meant LightSquared downlink right next door to GPS downlink could overwhelm it in GPS receivers.

 

In this case, T-Mobile has no adjacent spectrum to that of SiriusXM.  Presently, T-Mobile's highest frequency licensed and usable spectrum is in the AWS-1 1900+1200 MHz band at 2155 MHz, while SiriusXM operates in SDARS dedicated spectrum in the S band at 2320-2345 MHz.  Only AT&T band 30 WCS 2300 MHz is closely adjacent to SiriusXM and could cause adjacent channel interference.

 

No, this is intermodulation interference.  Various T-Mobile frequencies in the PCS 1900 MHz, AWS-1 1900+2100 MHz band, maybe even the Lower 700 MHz band are unintentionally combining together at the transmitter, creating sum and difference frequencies called intermodulation.  I would have done the math myself, but a commenter at the WSJ article already beat me to it.  So, I will quote Mr. Wilkus:

 

Thanks to Tim Farrar (again).  I see that 3rd order intermod products between T-Mobile's NYC PCS blocks (1930 to 1950 MHz) can mix with their AWS blocks (2130 to 2155 MHz) to produce interference in the Sirius/XM band.  

 

For example;  2 * 2140 (AWS D&F) - 1945 (PCS A&D) = 2335 MHz (middle of Sirius/XM band).

 

Everyone, though, should read the article and most recent comments.  Well done.

 

AJ

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To provide some technical insight, the conflict is more vaguely reminiscent than closely connected.

 

The LightSquared vs GPS issue dealt with basically adjacent channel interference. Adjacent spectrum uses need to be of roughly similar power levels. The problem is that LightSquared downlink would be on terra firma, while GPS downlink would be coming from thousands of miles in outer space. Being adjacent to one another, that meant LightSquared downlink right next door to GPS downlink could overwhelm it in GPS receivers.

 

In this case, T-Mobile has no adjacent spectrum to that of SiriusXM. Presently, T-Mobile's highest frequency licensed and usable spectrum is in the AWS-1 1900+1200 MHz band at 2155 MHz, while SiriusXM operates in SDARS dedicated spectrum in the S band at 2320-2345 MHz. Only AT&T band 30 WCS 2300 MHz is closely adjacent to SiriusXM and could cause adjacent channel interference.

 

No, this is intermodulation interference. Various T-Mobile frequencies in the PCS 1900 MHz, AWS-1 1900+2100 MHz band, maybe even the Lower 700 MHz band are unintentionally combining together at the transmitter, creating sum and difference frequencies called intermodulation. I would have done the math myself, but a commenter at the WSJ article already beat me to it. So, I will quote Mr. Wilkus:

 

 

Everyone, though, should read the article and most recent comments. Well done.

 

AJ

Actually this isn't the first time I have heard of Sirius radio issues. I have heard of past Sirius having issues with aviation and government 2 way radios and also radar spread spectrum bursts. From my understanding Sirius had some issues with "muting" when they started working with car OEMs whereas before it had previously not seen as a pressing issue. Where I work I was talking with some older engineers who remember the Sirius receivers having to have special notch filters in place after this exact type of interference was found to be an issue (we do some sat-com and high frequency RF work for some government programs). I think Sirus and the carmakers' solution was a wideband filter that is still in use today (my coworker said it was a Murata product). From my point of view T-Mobile saying it is Sirius' fault is really disingenuous because they ALREADY went beyond requirements and provide several dB worth of rejection for this type of signal interference.

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http://www.tomsguide.com/us/best-mobile-network,review-2942-7.html

(not sure if already posted)

 

 

Great article on how all the major carriers perform at various locations in Houston.

 

Sent from my SM-N910T

 

It really is too bad they used a Galaxy S5 in those tests which is over a year old and does not have carrier aggregation.

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http://www.tomsguide.com/us/best-mobile-network,review-2942-7.html

(not sure if already posted)

 

 

Great article on how all the major carriers perform at various locations in Houston.

 

Sent from my SM-N910T

Sounds about right. T-Mobile does very well in Houston.

 

Sprint on the other hand is hurt in Houston by the vast number of Clear LTE radios and antennas in the area. They put out poor coverage and performance drops off dramatically when you lose a clear line of sight to the tower. I've noticed the same problems in Dallas and San Antonio. Hopefully once wimax is killed off, Sprint is able to optimize B41 to reach farther and penetrate better by installing 8t8r equipment everywhere. In a city as hot and humid as Houston, most data activity will be done indoors and B41 is pretty much non-existent unless you're 1000 feet from a tower. B26 could surely need the help right about now.

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It really is too bad they used a Galaxy S5 in those tests which is over a year old and does not have carrier aggregation.

It wouldn't matter. I've tried B41 in Houston with the iPhone 6s and it doesn't fare much better than the S5. Maybe slightly better, but by the time the S5 is on B25, it has better speeds than the weak B41 the iPhone is holding on to.
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Sounds about right. T-Mobile does very well in Houston.

 

Sprint on the other hand is hurt in Houston by the vast number of Clear LTE radios and antennas in the area. They put out poor coverage and performance drops off dramatically when you lose a clear line of sight to the tower. I've noticed the same problems in Dallas and San Antonio. Hopefully once wimax is killed off, Sprint is able to optimize B41 to reach farther and penetrate better by installing 8t8r equipment everywhere. In a city as hot and humid as Houston, most data activity will be done indoors and B41 is pretty much non-existent unless you're 1000 feet from a tower. B26 could surely need the help right about now.

 

I've also used T-Mobile quite a bit (MetroPCS actually, but same network).  In my usage, T-Mobile drops to EDGE indoors more often than Sprint did to 3g, but outdoors T-Mobile would normally have higher speed tests.  Sprint is more reliable for me, plus driving to Dallas, Austin, or San Antonio means I get LTE the majority of the time, where as T-Mobile I'll be on EDGE for a good portion of the drive.

 

I haven't upgraded to a carrier aggregation enable phone on Sprint and never used a T-Mobile phone with band 12, so things could be different now.

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Idk how much damage this data breach will do to T-Mobile. I was watching my local news and they were talking about it but no where in that whole story was Experian mentioned. To the average person who doesn't do any reading will take that and run with it hell even cancel their service solely based on what your local news wants to put out.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Idk how much damage this data breach will do to T-Mobile. I was watching my local news and they were talking about it but no where in that whole story was Experian mentioned. To the average person who doesn't do any reading will take that and run with it hell even cancel their service solely based on what your local news wants to put out.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's funny. My local news did the exact opposite. Solely blaming Experian, and only mentioning that T-Mobile uses them as a service. Otherwise the blame was on Experian, and their numerous data breeches this year alone.

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Personally, I blame Legere. I don't trust anyone who cannot pronounce their own name correctly. [emoji14]

 

Using Tapatalk on BlackBerry Z30

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Legere has learned a lesson that Sprint did a few years ago. It is better to have your extreme unlimited data hogs churn. Tmo is making it painful for them, that's why they are making the speed extremely low.

 

They want them to go back to Sprint. Because carriers lose money on the Unlimited abusers who use their wireless service as their personal ISP. Even Legere doesn't want them.

 

Sprint was happy to lose them, and is praying they don't get them back. Because these customers cause pain and consternation to the customers they do want. I wouldn't be surprised if Sprint just follows Tmo here and does the same thing to prevent the abusers from coming back.

 

We predicted this very thing happening. Some vocal abusers said the fact that Tmo allows unlimited without hindrance was evidence that abusers didn't impact the networks and should be allowed to continue to use data at any unreasonable amount as they deem fit. Well, if that was true then, then this is indeed evidence of what abusers do to a network if allowed to. Shut down everyone else's ability to enjoy a robust network and possibly really high consumption occasionally.

 

Well, the Tmo buffet is being shut down. And this is probably not the time to celebrate Sprint's more open unlimited tolerances. Even though they may have more breathing room because of B41, they do impact B25/B26 terribly and causing early capex burn for more B41 capacity before even finish rolling out is terribly impactful to everything. Sprint will also likely join suit in some regard.

 

Using Moto X² on Tapatalk

And fast forward to now. T-Mobile still has fast speeds lol. [emoji41]

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Core Prime using Tapatalk

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And fast forward to now. T-Mobile still has fast speeds lol. [emoji41]

 

In objective testing, many RootMetrics results indicate not quite the opposite, but that T-Mobile data speeds are indeed in decline.  You cannot dispute that.

 

And it also smacks of trolling that you are now a T-Mobile user, but pop in at S4GRU every few months, and reply to a post from six months ago.

 

AJ

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And fast forward to now. T-Mobile still has fast speeds lol. [emoji41]

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Core Prime using Tapatalk

 

If you read my post correctly, which you may not even be capable of, I said Legere LEARNED A LESSON FROM SPRINT and took evasive maneuvers to PREVENT PEOPLE LIKE YOU FROM DAMAGING HIS NETWORK beyond repair.  I even said Sprint may emulate his actions.

 

Your comment did not prove or disprove anything.

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Never understood why there is so much vitriol between Sprint and T-Mobile users.

 

Seriously?

 

There was little vitriol until John Legere started publicly shitting on Sprint -- and T-Mobile trolls started occupying online comments/forums.

 

Bar none, T-Mobile ignited the fire.  Prior to the current T-Mobile regime's juvenile antics, many Sprint users supported T-Mobile in its continued independent existence.

 

AJ

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Seriously?

 

There was little vitriol until John Legere started publicly shitting on Sprint -- and T-Mobile trolls started occupying online comments/forums.

 

Bar none, T-Mobile ignited the fire. Prior to the current T-Mobile regime's juvenile antics, many Sprint users supported T-Mobile in its continued independent existence.

 

AJ

Ok, and why internalize that? Let the millionaire CEOs duke it out.

 

Sent from my SM-N910T

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Ok, and why internalize that? Let the millionaire CEOs duke it out.

 

Sent from my SM-N910T

That would be easy if everyone did that. Take a look at Twitter lately? Most of the fire comes from the Magenta side. Don't take my word for it; take a look yourself.

 

I suspect Legere runs down Sprint publicly out of envy. He sees the spectrum runway getting short on his end, the massive data party on his carrier, the flood of customers coming in, and everyone partying and not seeing the storm approaching. Now he can't tell the Magenta crowd about the storm, though he can discipline his own for acting too unruly within the camp using too much data, which he has the right to do.

 

The truth is, deep down, that I suspect Legere wants to assimilate Sprint. He said he'd only take a pick up Sprint off the sidewalk. Yet ask the most rabid Magentans off guard if Sprint is on the sidewalk and they'll tell you so!

 

No doubt Sprint has issues, and most are of their own doing. That said, Legere could hold back and let Sprint shoot itself in the foot, but that isn't good enough for a lot on the Magenta sideline.

 

tl;dr Legere wants B41, nationwide B26, and Sprint customers.

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Finally let me say I support both carriers and because of geography, am more likely to become a T-Mobile user than a Sprint user. I also admire the relentless focus T-Mobile has placed on user experience. Yet the barbs could back off a bit. Or, at least, be done in a more professional manner.

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Ok, and why internalize that? Let the millionaire CEOs duke it out.

 

Why "internalize" it?  You are divorced from reality.  Vociferous T-Mobile trolls have both internalized and externalized it.

 

Try objectively commenting on an article elsewhere about T-Mobile and/or Sprint.  You can provide facts and statistics about Sprint, setting the record straight.  No matter, T-Mobile trolls will overrun those comments with their anti Sprint, anti S4GRU agitprop.

 

AJ

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tl;dr Legere wants B41, nationwide B26, and Sprint customers.

Sprint customers definitely, but any customers really.

 

As far as nationwide B26, I think you mean sub-1 GHz greenfield spectrum. Which they have in quite a few, but far from all areas with L700A.

 

I think it's hard not to imagine that T-Mobile's hyper dense macro layer in major metros would perform well with a spectrum intensive high band deployment.

 

So I'm not disagreeing, these are all valid points. I think it's egregious how underdeployed the 2.5 GHz spectrum is personally, but that's a whole separate issue.

Edited by reedacus25
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That would be easy if everyone did that. Take a look at Twitter lately? Most of the fire comes from the Magenta side. Don't take my word for it; take a look yourself.

 

I suspect Legere runs down Sprint publicly out of envy. He sees the spectrum runway getting short on his end, the massive data party on his carrier, the flood of customers coming in, and everyone partying and not seeing the storm approaching. Now he can't tell the Magenta crowd about the storm, though he can discipline his own for acting too unruly within the camp using too much data, which he has the right to do.

 

The truth is, deep down, that I suspect Legere wants to assimilate Sprint. He said he'd only take a pick up Sprint off the sidewalk. Yet ask the most rabid Magentans off guard if Sprint is on the sidewalk and they'll tell you so!

 

No doubt Sprint has issues, and most are of their own doing. That said, Legere could hold back and let Sprint shoot itself in the foot, but that isn't good enough for a lot on the Magenta sideline.

 

tl;dr Legere wants B41, nationwide B26, and Sprint customers.

I see it from both sides and I still wonder why. I've had T-Mobile and Sprint.

 

Voice Text Data performance on your own respective network, should be the only thing users care about.

 

Sent from my SM-N910T

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