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T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2


lilotimz

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While I think T-Mobile has done a decent job catching up, those maps are a joke. They added LTE to almost every site in Delaware, added ZERO new sites, and it's a mix of Band 2 & Band 4 & Band 12 for LTE and voice is a hodgepodge of 1900 HSPA+ and 1900 GSM. Only about half the sites received Ericsson AIR and band 12, so the network experience cannot be too great overall. 

 

Yet, you'd think T-Mobile blanketed the state with LTE...while there are still large gaps with no service. Sprint still has more coverage than T-Mobile here, but T-Mobile acts like they're at&t all of a sudden. 

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I would have wrote about this coverage map issue sooner, but I've been quite upset about it, seeing that T-Mobile is blatantly lying about their coverage, yet there haven't been any reports of an investigation into this by the FCC or any major consumer rights groups. T-Mobile even has an image on their website showing their coverage map in full, while someone is carrying a flag with areas missing in coverage from the coverage map in full on the same page right next to the person carrying the flag!

 

I have to agree, they should be the straw that breaks the camel's back. It'd be awesome to see industry-wide standards that force all carriers to use at least somewhat realistic and reasonable metrics and algorithms for portraying their coverage.

Edited by cortney
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So here is Legere's promo pricing absolute BULLSHIT chart. It doesn't disclose ANYTHING of importance, claims no taxes owed on a lease which only applies if you turn in the lease and not buy it which should merit a footnote at least and absolutely pisses me off by how disingenuous it is. If you cancel service it goes all the way up to $27/mo for the remainder of the payments.

https://twitter.com/JohnLegere/status/646677758878216192

 

ogjqRGT.png

 

It doesn't disclose that you need to trade in an IPHONE 6 for this. So you will have all these poor bastard current customers coming in with an iPhone 6 that still has lease payments on it and causing all kinds of confusion. Here is why this is bullshit. 

The $5 deal is pretty lousy but the $10 for a 5s isn't terrible since by my quick math it would make it $10x18 months + the $164 payment to keep the phone after 18 months which means you get a $344 iPhone 6s at the end of 18 months (before the deferred taxes which are also significant).
 
So lets compare this on a yearly basis trade in vs not trading in:
If you pay the $5/mo for 12 months (60+99 upfront for 64 GB model+410 iPhone 6 market value ..or is it $550?) you are paying at least $569
 
If you pay $20/mo for 12 months lease without a trade in at all (240+99 upfront for 64 GB model) you are paying $339
 
If you own a iPhone already this is not a great deal.
 
Since the comparison to Sprint is inevitable due to both carriers being the most aggressive: The problem here is that it is still more $ than what Sprint is offering. Right now the iPhone 6s (w/any smartphone trade-in )with unlimited data on Sprint is $75 (60 plan + 15 for a 16 GB iPhone 6s) vs $85 ($80+ $5 for a 16 GB iPhone 6s) plus the cost I outlined above of trading your phone in. The gap widens when you compare trading in an LG sunrise for $30 on Sprint or even a much older iPhone.
 
This is not a good deal for yearly upgraders and in my eyes even at 18 months it is a little wanting. I consider the $5 deal a good marketing ploy where T-Mobile can shout about having the cheapest iPhone plan while costing the people who take this plan quite a bit more money than they realize.
 
Even with matching the $15 for any smartphone the price gap is $75 vs $95 or enough to get an iPhone 6s Plus with 128GB and still have money left over every month. Further, @ $240 difference over 12 months this is still quite in favor of Sprint's current promotion and plans.
 
 
edit: to add to this already long post: T-Mobile is becoming way too complicated. They started out by getting rid of all discounts and promising one price to everyone but now there are people on a billion different plans that they have to constantly keep having to check in to see if there is something better. Even simple questions such as online vs in store pricing, how much tethering, 3 different jump programs. This feels more like shopping at Kohls where EVERYTHING IS ON SALE AND YOU CAN GET EVEN BETTER SAVINGS WITH KOHLS CASH OR A KOHLS CARD APPLY NOW style promotions. My sister has Tmobile and came to me today asking about her plan and I had such a hard time telling what the hell plan she was using and if she was eligible for the new promotions and all kinds of crap. What happened to a simple choice everyone has the same plan? It is an absolute mess now and the employees are given NO warning of these plans which was obvious when I tried calling in with her.  Oh and for the record if you wanted to trade an iPhone 6 64 GB in for an iPhone 6s 64 GB T-mobile insists that you pay the $99 down payment anyways.
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Excellent post, Cletus!

 

Plus, you spared me the time going through all the pricing I normally do, though I wasn't actually to do a price comparison on T-Mobile's complete lie of a pricing chart. At this point, I really want a carrier, any carrier (even if it was U.S. Cellular, which I despise) to acquire T-Mobile and send John Legere back to the pit he came from.

 

Anyways, I agreed with everything you wrote about it. If only more people would understand how sneaky and corrupt that sinister, deceptive, complete cesspool of cellular uncarrier slime T-Mobile is under John Legere's reign of rebellious wickedness truly is, and left that company behind, it would truly be great for the industry.

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So here is Legere's promo pricing absolute BULLSHIT chart. It doesn't disclose ANYTHING of importance, claims no taxes owed on a lease which only applies if you turn in the lease and not buy it which should merit a footnote at least and absolutely pisses me off by how disingenuous it is. If you cancel service it goes all the way up to $27/mo for the remainder of the payments.

 

I noticed that fine print which is great entertainment because T-Mobile has lots of it. T-Mobile was formally touted by their clueless fanboys as having "no strings attached" and now that is absolutely untrue in every regard possible.

 

In fact, not only does every new thing they do get rightfully called out, it just gets worse and worse. 

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I noticed that fine print which is great entertainment because T-Mobile has lots of it. T-Mobile was formally touted by their clueless fanboys as having "no strings attached" and now that is absolutely untrue in every regard possible.

 

In fact, not only does every new thing they do get rightfully called out, it just gets worse and worse.

Perhaps the fanboys were thinking about the big balloon with John Legere's face on it they wanted to launch when they said "No Strings Attached". However, the balloon still is filled with lots of hot air.

 

T-Mobile's rate plans are atrocious. So much that I don't even want to bother working out a rate plan solution for them, other than saying they might as well just stick to that $45 monthly all unlimited plan they gave to certain customers on legacy plans back when they were trying to make their plans "simple".

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Anyone try running the various price plans through WhistleOut?

 

The Simple Choice plans haven't been taken out of the system. In fact, if you consider the parachute payment for keeping a phone 18 months at the end of Jump on Demand, then you are more or less coming out equal.

 

Leasing, to me, almost seems as if it's a resubsidy. Pardon me for thinking NO lease program through any carrier is that great.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/3m03ta/tmobile_is_getting_too_complex/

 

This is a really good discussion if you read through the whole thing. T-Mobile employees make good points, but they're really having to work very hard just to keep up with what T-Mobile is doing themselves. 

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Anyone try running the various price plans through WhistleOut?

 

The Simple Choice plans haven't been taken out of the system. In fact, if you consider the parachute payment for keeping a phone 18 months at the end of Jump on Demand, then you are more or less coming out equal.

 

Leasing, to me, almost seems as if it's a resubsidy. Pardon me for thinking NO lease program through any carrier is that great.

John Legere would be angry at you for calling it a "resubsidy". Even if it were called an "unsubsidy", that still wouldn't be good in his mind. He'd tell you it is really just an "unlease". Then when he's done having his "unfit", he'd go back to his desk and cry a little on Periscope to his "unsheeple".
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https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/3m03ta/tmobile_is_getting_too_complex/

 

This is a really good discussion if you read through the whole thing. T-Mobile employees make good points, but they're really having to work very hard just to keep up with what T-Mobile is doing themselves.

Some of the employees do try to be nice to the customers, just that they are so limited by executive management.

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So here is Legere's promo pricing absolute BULLSHIT chart. It doesn't disclose ANYTHING of importance, claims no taxes owed on a lease which only applies if you turn in the lease and not buy it which should merit a footnote at least and absolutely pisses me off by how disingenuous it is. If you cancel service it goes all the way up to $27/mo for the remainder of the payments.

https://twitter.com/JohnLegere/status/646677758878216192

 

ogjqRGT.png

 

It doesn't disclose that you need to trade in an IPHONE 6 for this. So you will have all these poor bastard current customers coming in with an iPhone 6 that still has lease payments on it and causing all kinds of confusion. Here is why this is bullshit. 

The $5 deal is pretty lousy but the $10 for a 5s isn't terrible since by my quick math it would make it $10x18 months + the $164 payment to keep the phone after 18 months which means you get a $344 iPhone 6s at the end of 18 months (before the deferred taxes which are also significant).
 
So lets compare this on a yearly basis trade in vs not trading in:
If you pay the $5/mo for 12 months (60+99 upfront for 64 GB model+410 iPhone 6 market value ..or is it $550?) you are paying at least $569
 
If you pay $20/mo for 12 months lease without a trade in at all (240+99 upfront for 64 GB model) you are paying $339
 
If you own a iPhone already this is not a great deal.
 
Since the comparison to Sprint is inevitable due to both carriers being the most aggressive: The problem here is that it is still more $ than what Sprint is offering. Right now the iPhone 6s (w/any smartphone trade-in )with unlimited data on Sprint is $75 (60 plan + 15 for a 16 GB iPhone 6s) vs $85 ($80+ $5 for a 16 GB iPhone 6s) plus the cost I outlined above of trading your phone in. The gap widens when you compare trading in an LG sunrise for $30 on Sprint or even a much older iPhone.
 
This is not a good deal for yearly upgraders and in my eyes even at 18 months it is a little wanting. I consider the $5 deal a good marketing ploy where T-Mobile can shout about having the cheapest iPhone plan while costing the people who take this plan quite a bit more money than they realize.
 
Even with matching the $15 for any smartphone the price gap is $75 vs $95 or enough to get an iPhone 6s Plus with 128GB and still have money left over every month. Further, @ $240 difference over 12 months this is still quite in favor of Sprint's current promotion and plans.
 
 
edit: to add to this already long post: T-Mobile is becoming way too complicated. They started out by getting rid of all discounts and promising one price to everyone but now there are people on a billion different plans that they have to constantly keep having to check in to see if there is something better. Even simple questions such as online vs in store pricing, how much tethering, 3 different jump programs. This feels more like shopping at Kohls where EVERYTHING IS ON SALE AND YOU CAN GET EVEN BETTER SAVINGS WITH KOHLS CASH OR A KOHLS CARD APPLY NOW style promotions. My sister has Tmobile and came to me today asking about her plan and I had such a hard time telling what the hell plan she was using and if she was eligible for the new promotions and all kinds of crap. What happened to a simple choice everyone has the same plan? It is an absolute mess now and the employees are given NO warning of these plans which was obvious when I tried calling in with her.  Oh and for the record if you wanted to trade an iPhone 6 64 GB in for an iPhone 6s 64 GB T-mobile insists that you pay the $99 down payment anyways.

 

 

 

Looks like T-Mobile's not the only one trying to confuse everyone with the iPhone launch. 

http://newsroom.sprint.com/news-releases/not-so-fast-t-mobile-sprint-beats-your-price-with-worlds-best-offer-on-iphone-6s-1month.htm

 

Of note, I completely agree with the sentiment of T-Mobile not being "simple" anymore. With 3 different Jump! schemas, grandfathered promo rate plans, new rate plans with different int'l roaming rates, etc it is a confusing mess.

 

Not sure why the cost of the phone needs to be obfuscated any more than it already is. iPhones cost $650. If people don't want to pay it, then don't buy it. Tired of all the gimmicks and half-promos, not just from T-Mobile, but everyone in the one-up game of getting to the lowest cost. Now if they want to give me a free storage upgrade, gladly! If they want to knock off a few payments, sure! Car dealerships offer deals that pay the first X payments for you. But this race to a near-free iPhone lease is ridiculous.

 

Admittedly T-Mobile wants to get those iPhone 6's out of customer hands to get the 6S in their hands so they have Band 12 coverage and are less prone to having a reason to walk.

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Looks like T-Mobile's not the only one trying to confuse everyone with the iPhone launch.

http://newsroom.sprint.com/news-releases/not-so-fast-t-mobile-sprint-beats-your-price-with-worlds-best-offer-on-iphone-6s-1month.htm

 

Of note, I completely agree with the sentiment of T-Mobile not being "simple" anymore. With 3 different Jump! schemas, grandfathered promo rate plans, new rate plans with different int'l roaming rates, etc it is a confusing mess.

 

Not sure why the cost of the phone needs to be obfuscated any more than it already is. iPhones cost $650. If people don't want to pay it, then don't buy it. Tired of all the gimmicks and half-promos, not just from T-Mobile, but everyone in the one-up game of getting to the lowest cost. Now if they want to give me a free storage upgrade, gladly! If they want to knock off a few payments, sure! Car dealerships offer deals that pay the first X payments for you. But this race to a near-free iPhone lease is ridiculous.

 

Admittedly T-Mobile wants to get those iPhone 6's out of customer hands to get the 6S in their hands so they have Band 12 coverage and are less prone to having a reason to walk.

https://twitter.com/marceloclaure/status/647049971322130436

 

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

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At this point I'm really tired of seeing all the promos. It feels saturated to some extent. It's really a race to the bottom. Next year everyone we will have monthly service for $20 phone included.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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At this point I'm really tired of seeing all the promos. It feels saturated to some extent. It's really a race to the bottom. Next year everyone we will have monthly service for $20 phone included.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No... This isn't a race to the bottom. This is just classic number jumble.

 

Sprints is more honest where as the other one not so much.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

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Looks like T-Mobile's not the only one trying to confuse everyone with the iPhone launch. 

http://newsroom.sprint.com/news-releases/not-so-fast-t-mobile-sprint-beats-your-price-with-worlds-best-offer-on-iphone-6s-1month.htm

 

Of note, I completely agree with the sentiment of T-Mobile not being "simple" anymore. With 3 different Jump! schemas, grandfathered promo rate plans, new rate plans with different int'l roaming rates, etc it is a confusing mess.

 

Not sure why the cost of the phone needs to be obfuscated any more than it already is. iPhones cost $650. If people don't want to pay it, then don't buy it. Tired of all the gimmicks and half-promos, not just from T-Mobile, but everyone in the one-up game of getting to the lowest cost. Now if they want to give me a free storage upgrade, gladly! If they want to knock off a few payments, sure! Car dealerships offer deals that pay the first X payments for you. But this race to a near-free iPhone lease is ridiculous.

 

Admittedly T-Mobile wants to get those iPhone 6's out of customer hands to get the 6S in their hands so they have Band 12 coverage and are less prone to having a reason to walk.

Yep. Totally not surprised because everyone looks for the "CHEAPEST IPHONE AT X CARRRIERERR" headlines.

 

That being said my wife is on the $15/mo promo for her iPhone 6 and if she can trade that for an iPhone 6s for $1/mo because like the stupid T-Mobile deal now I have to constantly be aware of the latest and greatest promotion. From a customer perspective it is annoying on any carrier. Dont forget that Sprint also wants the 6s into customer hands for 2x b41 Carrier Aggregation.

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All of these "promos" are riddled with fine print of dependence of trading in a working device, and depending on what device it is, how low your payments go.

 

$20 on T-Mobile with no trade in, $22 with sprint.

 

$15 for both if you trade in an older smartphone from both T-Mobile and Sprint.

 

It's really no different than doing an EIP structure where the balance is reduced by the value of the trade, reducing overall MRP towards the balance. This isn't some smoke and mirrors show on either part, just overly complicated charts that highlight an edge case that demonstrates some fantastic number that the company wants to toot its PR horn about.

 

The real winners here are consumers who don't care enough, or are incapable of figuring out the actual value of devices and they see a low number per month, and that works for them. Their iPhone was worth $200 new, so it's basically worthless now right?

 

I also think comparisons are totally unequal because we are comparing an 18-month lease term on T-Mobile to a 22-month lease term on Sprint. So let's keep that in mind as well.

Edited by reedacus25
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I stand corrected. Going to grab coffee number 2.

I can't blame you for not noticing. On the one hand, for current leasers this is a good deal but on the other hand unless you can do the cheap phone shuffle like I did (traded in a cheapo phone for the $15 promo and now it appears I can also get the $1 Sprint deal) you wasted a significant amount of equity in the tradein phone.

 

To your point above it is even more misleading because if you want to leave the service you owe the full 27.09 payments left at both carriers. The whole thing sucks.

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All of these "promos" are riddled with fine print of dependence of trading in a working device, and depending on what device it is, how low your payments go.

 

$20 on T-Mobile with no trade in, $22 with sprint.

 

$15 for both if you trade in an older smartphone from both T-Mobile and Sprint.

 

It's really no different than doing an EIP structure where the balance is reduced by the value of the trade, reducing overall MRP towards the balance. This isn't some smoke and mirrors show on either part, just overly complicated charts that highlight an edge case that demonstrates some fantastic number that the company wants to toot its PR horn about.

 

The real winners here are consumers who don't care enough, or are incapable of figuring out the actual value of devices and they see a low number per month, and that works for them. Their iPhone was worth $200 new, so it's basically worthless now right?

 

I also think comparisons are totally unequal because we are comparing an 18-month lease term on T-Mobile to a 22-month lease term on Sprint. So let's keep that in mind as well.

Well the chart does say price after 12 months.

 

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

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All of these "promos" are riddled with fine print of dependence of trading in a working device, and depending on what device it is, how low your payments go.

 

$20 on T-Mobile with no trade in, $22 with sprint.

 

$15 for both if you trade in an older smartphone from both T-Mobile and Sprint.

 

It's really no different than doing an EIP structure where the balance is reduced by the value of the trade, reducing overall MRP towards the balance. This isn't some smoke and mirrors show on either part, just overly complicated charts that highlight an edge case that demonstrates some fantastic number that the company wants to toot its PR horn about.

 

The real winners here are consumers who don't care enough, or are incapable of figuring out the actual value of devices and they see a low number per month, and that works for them. Their iPhone was worth $200 new, so it's basically worthless now right?

 

I also think comparisons are totally unequal because we are comparing an 18-month lease term on T-Mobile to a 22-month lease term on Sprint. So let's keep that in mind as well.

 

This offer is not elgible for current iPhone forever 6 leases. Sorry to tell you guys. You have to own it outright

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I can't blame you for not noticing. On the one hand, for current leasers this is a good deal but on the other hand unless you can do the cheap phone shuffle like I did (traded in a cheapo phone for the $15 promo and now it appears I can also get the $1 Sprint deal) you wasted a significant amount of equity in the tradein phone.

 

To your point above it is even more misleading because if you want to leave the service you owe the full 27.09 payments left at both carriers. The whole thing sucks.

It will not be elgible for $1

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