T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2

[ericdabbs]

No... if you have 50MHz, you can deploy ONE 20x20 and ONE 5x5. 

 

20+20+5+5. 

 

Yes you are correct.  I messed up on the math.

[ericdabbs]

Precisely what burst that bubble, time is the enemy of all tech.

 

But the thing is Tmobile is working on other initiatives in the mean time to help alleviate that pressure of 600 MHz like LTE-U deployment, small cell deployment, etc.  Time and time again people doubt Tmobile especially when they bought 700-A block licenses.  People were saying "OMG how are they EVER going to get the TV broadcasters to clear their spectrum and make it useable" and "what a waste of money".  Tmobile surprised everyone and was able to get B12 LTE deployed in a short time.  

 

I am not saying that the 600 MHz is in the same boat but we will just have to see how things start to progress towards EOY 2017 to see how much on that front is being accomplished.  Regardless Tmobile has enough momentum and goodwill to buy themselves some time whereas Sprint is in the opposite position.  

 

I hope HPUE works out for Sprint and they can truly claim that the 2.5 GHz spectrum is an expansion of mid-band spectrum and can draw customers again but fundamentally Sprint still has financial issues in trying to deploy their network initiatives.

[jamesinclair]

Im happy for T-mobile. The more pressure on Verizon and AT&T the better

[Ascertion]

He may be selling broken down blue-title'd Mitsubishis, but people are buying them. It's all about perception, not quality. Legere makes Lane Pratley of Lane Pratley Cadillac and Hyundai proud!

 

Well, if you say so.  I've had much better network experience since switching to T-Mobile from Sprint and T-Mobile is actually investing in their network. 

[S4GRU]

Well, if you say so. I've had much better network experience since switching to T-Mobile from Sprint and T-Mobile is actually investing in their network.

I've been on Tmo for nearly two years now. I have a love/hate thing for Tmo. What I like, I really like. Where performance is great, I'm happy. But I can tell you they are not as great as Legere and the Fanboys paint.

 

I have more than a dozen sites in my market that are nearly unusable. And this is their home market. Performance has dropped drastically the past two years. Yet, they also keep adding sites and bands. So, the progress is nice to watch. And it's consistent. But it's slower than growth. And the number of problem sites is growing in the places I go.

 

Using Tapatalk on Note 8.0

[Ascertion]

I've been on Tmo for nearly two years now. I have a love/hate thing for Tmo. What I like, I really like. Where performance is great, I'm happy. But I can tell you they are not as great as Legere and the Fanboys paint.

 

I have more than a dozen sites in my market that are nearly unusable. And this is their home market. Performance has dropped drastically the past two years. Yet, they also keep adding sites and bands. So, the progress is nice to watch. And it's consistent. But it's slower than growth. And the number of problem sites is growing in the places I go.

 

Using Tapatalk on Note 8.0

I'm happy that they're not decreasing CapEx and that they've just dumped $7.9B on spectrum alone.  That shows that T-Mobile is committed to the customer experience.  The only real issue is that they're growing too fast.

[caspar347]

I'm looking at the FCC PRS. Is there any easy way to see who got which blocks here or elsewhere yet?

[RAvirani]

I'm looking at the FCC PRS. Is there any easy way to see who got which blocks here or elsewhere yet?

http://www.spectrumgateway.com/600-mhz-spectrum

[tybo31316]

http://www.spectrumgateway.com/600-mhz-spectrum

Looking at the dollar amounts. Looks like Dish bought a significant amount of 600 spectrum also.

[RAvirani]

Looking at the dollar amounts. Looks like Dish bought a significant amount of 600 spectrum also.

Yeah, they got 5x5 or 10x10 pretty much everywhere...

[ericdabbs]

 

I'm looking at the FCC PRS. Is there any easy way to see who got which blocks here or elsewhere yet?

 

 

Yes you can find the assignment blocks here.  Enable Search toggle switch and type under Market Name for the market you are interested in seeing.  For example LA/OC got the C, D, E blocks for a total of 15x15.

 

https://auctiondata.fcc.gov/public/projects/1000/reports/assignment-results_by_license

[caspar347]

 

 

 

Yes you can find the assignment blocks here.  Enable Search toggle switch and type under Market Name for the market you are interested in seeing.  For example LA/OC got the C, D, E blocks for a total of 15x15.

 

https://auctiondata.fcc.gov/public/projects/1000/reports/assignment-results_by_license

 

Thanks. T-Mobile picked up B, C, and D here.

[Arysyn]

I know I'm a few days late responding to the T-Mobile auction results here, so I'll post now about it. I think this is one of the most proudest times I've ever been towards T-Mobile, as a company. As we all know, T-Mobile eliminated taxes, they had their great two for one promo at $100, gave hundreds, possibly thousands of customers an additional 20% off discount for some time, same with a free third line deal, which that extra line I ended up not taking advantage of after all.

 

Now, all the talk was that T-Mobile's plan in the 600mhz auction, was going to be for them to get a nationwide 5x5 chunk of it. I vehemently argued against T-Mobile going for such a limited amount, hoping they'd go for at least 10x10 of it nationwide, while focusing on more for larger markets, such as 15x15 or 20x20. Although, I was skeptical they'd do what I was hoping for.

 

As it turned out, T-Mobile blew away my expectations, and did exactly what I wanted them to do. The Chicago market has 15x15 of the 600mhz spectrum. This matches along with the 15x15 of AWS spectrum, and from what I think is, but not sure of, 15x15 of PCS spectrum. This is a great thing here for Chicago. Now I am hoping DT and T-Mobile work towards buying Dish, to add both their added spectrum and service offerings to T-Mobile, which would turn T-Mobile into a competitive force against AT&T, matching their spectrum and some of their service offerings, while keeping up with whatever Verizon might do, which I suspect will be in a large cable merger and an attempt at large-scale spectrum grabs in the higher frequencies, possibly involving Sprint, though that isn't certain.

[ericdabbs]

I know I'm a few days late responding to the T-Mobile auction results here, so I'll post now about it. I think this is one of the most proudest times I've ever been towards T-Mobile, as a company. As we all know, T-Mobile eliminated taxes, they had their great two for one promo at $100, gave hundreds, possibly thousands of customers an additional 20% off discount for some time, same with a free third line deal, which that extra line I ended up not taking advantage of after all.

 

Now, all the talk was that T-Mobile's plan in the 600mhz auction, was going to be for them to get a nationwide 5x5 chunk of it. I vehemently argued against T-Mobile going for such a limited amount, hoping they'd go for at least 10x10 of it nationwide, while focusing on more for larger markets, such as 15x15 or 20x20. Although, I was skeptical they'd do what I was hoping for.

 

As it turned out, T-Mobile blew away my expectations, and did exactly what I wanted them to do. The Chicago market has 15x15 of the 600mhz spectrum. This matches along with the 15x15 of AWS spectrum, and from what I think is, but not sure of, 15x15 of PCS spectrum. This is a great thing here for Chicago. Now I am hoping DT and T-Mobile work towards buying Dish, to add both their added spectrum and service offerings to T-Mobile, which would turn T-Mobile into a competitive force against AT&T, matching their spectrum and some of their service offerings, while keeping up with whatever Verizon might do, which I suspect will be in a large cable merger and an attempt at large-scale spectrum grabs in the higher frequencies, possibly involving Sprint, though that isn't certain.

Yes chicago also has 15x15 PCS spectrum. I too am glad that tmobile did well in the 600 mhz auction getting at least 10x10 in every market and 20x20 in almost all of rural america. I am sure tmobile will work with the broadcasters to vacate the spectrum quicker than people expect and can start to see the 600 mhz network deployed.

 

I am glad LA/OC got at least 15x15 MHz but was really hoping for 20x20.

 

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

[danlodish345]

Yes chicago also has 15x15 PCS spectrum. I too am glad that tmobile did well in the 600 mhz auction getting at least 10x10 in every market and 20x20 in almost all of rural america. I am sure tmobile will work with the broadcasters to vacate the spectrum quicker than people expect and can start to see the 600 mhz network deployed.

 

I am glad LA/OC got at least 15x15 MHz but was really hoping for 20x20.

 

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

in my market T-Mobile got 20 MHz of PCS spectrum and 20 MHz of AWS spectrum and 5 MHz of band 12 now with the 600 MHz that's another 20 added to T-Mobile spectrum portfolio here

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[richy]

I know I'm a few days late responding to the T-Mobile auction results here, so I'll post now about it. I think this is one of the most proudest times I've ever been towards T-Mobile, as a company. As we all know, T-Mobile eliminated taxes, they had their great two for one promo at $100, gave hundreds, possibly thousands of customers an additional 20% off discount for some time, same with a free third line deal, which that extra line I ended up not taking advantage of after all.

 

Now, all the talk was that T-Mobile's plan in the 600mhz auction, was going to be for them to get a nationwide 5x5 chunk of it. I vehemently argued against T-Mobile going for such a limited amount, hoping they'd go for at least 10x10 of it nationwide, while focusing on more for larger markets, such as 15x15 or 20x20. Although, I was skeptical they'd do what I was hoping for.

 

As it turned out, T-Mobile blew away my expectations, and did exactly what I wanted them to do. The Chicago market has 15x15 of the 600mhz spectrum. This matches along with the 15x15 of AWS spectrum, and from what I think is, but not sure of, 15x15 of PCS spectrum. This is a great thing here for Chicago. Now I am hoping DT and T-Mobile work towards buying Dish, to add both their added spectrum and service offerings to T-Mobile, which would turn T-Mobile into a competitive force against AT&T, matching their spectrum and some of their service offerings, while keeping up with whatever Verizon might do, which I suspect will be in a large cable merger and an attempt at large-scale spectrum grabs in the higher frequencies, possibly involving Sprint, though that isn't certain.

 

They eliminated taxes? I thought they just rolled them into the price so they weren't added on as an extra. I'm fairly sure eliminating taxes would be illegal otherwise I would be sending the IRS a letter. 

 

The spectrum is nice in theory and can't really hurt. They also got more than I expected but its still a couple of years away for most people. 

 

I hope they can keep up the momentum and manage to move forward with getting some higher band spectrum for 5g as well (nationwide rather than their current limited spectrum).

[Arysyn]

They eliminated taxes? I thought they just rolled them into the price so they weren't added on as an extra. I'm fairly sure eliminating taxes would be illegal otherwise I would be sending the IRS a letter.

 

The spectrum is nice in theory and can't really hurt. They also got more than I expected but its still a couple of years away for most people.

 

I hope they can keep up the momentum and manage to move forward with getting some higher band spectrum for 5g as well (nationwide rather than their current limited spectrum).

Well yes, you are correct. They are including taxes, not totally getting rid of them. Although, the price seems to have remained the same for now, at least.

 

I believe T-Mobile eventually will get into the higher band 5G market, though probably not as quickly as Sprint and Verizon will. As I've said here many times, Sprint did very well by getting the huge swaths of band 41 spectrum they have, and I certainly believe Sprint when they call it "the beachfront spectrum of 5G". Sprint just needs to really focus on deployment and densification, rather than mergers, Pokemon, and The Onion skits.

 

I think T-Mobile will be slower on getting to 5G, because I believe with this major focus on low-band spectrum, that they really are set at perfecting 4G LTE first, so they can have a very reliable fallback for when they do get 5G deployed. This will be more certain if T-Mobile ends up merging with Dish, where they'll have the best low-band and mid-band spectrum portfolios, competing strongly against AT&T, whereas Sprint and Verizon are better focused on 5G.

[Arysyn]

Yes chicago also has 15x15 PCS spectrum. I too am glad that tmobile did well in the 600 mhz auction getting at least 10x10 in every market and 20x20 in almost all of rural america. I am sure tmobile will work with the broadcasters to vacate the spectrum quicker than people expect and can start to see the 600 mhz network deployed.

 

I am glad LA/OC got at least 15x15 MHz but was really hoping for 20x20.

 

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Its good to know that about the PCS spectrum here in Chicago. I thought that was the case, but wasn't entirely sure if it was that, or 10x10.

 

Again, excellent news that T-Mobile went bigger than just the 5x5, which was being rumored, contrary to the hopes I and many others had with this. Sure enough, our hopes came true, in that T-Mobile went for a minimum of 10x10. Having 15x15 here in Chicago, will be a major benefit to people in this area.

 

So now that there is 45mhz of downlink spectrum, part of 15x3,and a single 5mhz of 700mhz downlink spectrum, I'm curious what would be added to this, if T-Mobile got Dish? Also wondering what is happening with the AWS-3 spectrum Dish decided to give up in the Chicago market, due to the auction ruling?

[ericdabbs]

Its good to know that about the PCS spectrum here in Chicago. I thought that was the case, but wasn't entirely sure if it was that, or 10x10.

 

Again, excellent news that T-Mobile went bigger than just the 5x5, which was being rumored, contrary to the hopes I and many others had with this. Sure enough, our hopes came true, in that T-Mobile went for a minimum of 10x10. Having 15x15 here in Chicago, will be a major benefit to people in this area.

 

So now that there is 45mhz of downlink spectrum, part of 15x3,and a single 5mhz of 700mhz downlink spectrum, I'm curious what would be added to this, if T-Mobile got Dish? Also wondering what is happening with the AWS-3 spectrum Dish decided to give up in the Chicago market, due to the auction ruling?

 

You can look at spectrum gateway's map for Tmobile's holdings and search for each market below.  Keep in mind the numbers listed are just summarizing the downlink.  So if it says 15 MHz, they really mean that they own 15x15 or a total of 30 MHz.

 

http://maps.spectrumgateway.com/t-mobile-spectrum-holdings.html

 

If Tmobile acquired Dish they would get more low band (600 MHz) and mid band (S-band: 1695-2020 and small parts of AWS-3) spectrum which would be great for Tmobile since even with the recent 600 MHz spectrum acquisitions they still have the least amount of spectrum nationwide out of the 4 big carriers.

[danlodish345]

You can look at spectrum gateway's map for Tmobile's holdings and search for each market below. Keep in mind the numbers listed are just summarizing the downlink. So if it says 15 MHz, they really mean that they own 15x15 or a total of 30 MHz.

 

http://maps.spectrumgateway.com/t-mobile-spectrum-holdings.html

 

If Tmobile acquired Dish they would get more low band (600 MHz) and mid band (S-band: 1695-2020 and small parts of AWS-3) spectrum which would be great for Tmobile since even with the recent 600 MHz spectrum acquisitions they still have the least amount of spectrum nationwide out of the 4 big carriers.

We'll still I m happy to see T-Mobile get nationwide low band LTE spectrum !

 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Arysyn]

I read some information online that basically made it seems that Dish owns 40mhz of AWS-3 spectrum, which I'm not sure how true that is, or not. Yet, it looks like its 20mhz in one area of spectrum, and 20mhz in another area, nationwide, though probably not figuring the spectrum Dish gave up in the controversy back during the AWS-3 auction. Although, it would be really great if it were true they can do 20x20, then have a merger with T-Mobile.

 

I'm really curious what is going to happen with that extra spectrum Dish gave back to the FCC. I'd really like for T-Mobile to buy it, even at the valued price, which I think was around $3 billion. If they got that and merged with Dish, they'd have that nationwide spectrum I read about. If indeed it is 20x20, or even 15x15, which I thought some areas were back when the AWS-3 auction was going on and being discussed here.

 

15x15 600mhz spectrum, 15x15 AWS-1 spectrum, 15x15 AWS-3 spectrum, and 15x15 PCS spectrum nationwide, or at least in moderate/major markets would be great for T-Mobile. It looks like they could have this as a minimum if they merged with Dish. I know some areas are 10x10, which personally if I were in charge of things, I'd try spectrum swapping in areas with over 20mhz downlink, in exchange for spectrum where its only 10mhz downlink. I think its very important to get that 15mhz minimum figure for stable speeds, not necessarily the fastest, yet not slow either.

 

I forget what amounts beyond that Dish has. I know I'm strongly hoping for a T-Mobile/Dish merger, while still concerned Verizon might try for Dish. Although, I'd much rather Verizon go with the big cable companies, as being rumored. If T-Mobile gets Dish, then it puts them as the carrier with the 2nd most amount of spectrum, behind Sprint, although very closely ahead of the spectrum amount AT&T has. Merging with Dish would make T-Mobile a very strong competitive force against AT&T, while putting Verizon in a difficult situation, particularly regarding spectrum. Verizon would likely either need to try getting Sprint, or else make a major push for their own high-band spectrum ib a way similar to Sprint getting Clearwire and its excellent band 41 spectrum portfolio.

[red_dog007]

I read some information online that basically made it seems that Dish owns 40mhz of AWS-3 spectrum, which I'm not sure how true that is, or not. Yet, it looks like its 20mhz in one area of spectrum, and 20mhz in another area, nationwide, though probably not figuring the spectrum Dish gave up in the controversy back during the AWS-3 auction. Although, it would be really great if it were true they can do 20x20, then have a merger with T-Mobile.

 

I'm really curious what is going to happen with that extra spectrum Dish gave back to the FCC. I'd really like for T-Mobile to buy it, even at the valued price, which I think was around $3 billion. If they got that and merged with Dish, they'd have that nationwide spectrum I read about. If indeed it is 20x20, or even 15x15, which I thought some areas were back when the AWS-3 auction was going on and being discussed here.

 

15x15 600mhz spectrum, 15x15 AWS-1 spectrum, 15x15 AWS-3 spectrum, and 15x15 PCS spectrum nationwide, or at least in moderate/major markets would be great for T-Mobile. It looks like they could have this as a minimum if they merged with Dish. I know some areas are 10x10, which personally if I were in charge of things, I'd try spectrum swapping in areas with over 20mhz downlink, in exchange for spectrum where its only 10mhz downlink. I think its very important to get that 15mhz minimum figure for stable speeds, not necessarily the fastest, yet not slow either.

 

I forget what amounts beyond that Dish has. I know I'm strongly hoping for a T-Mobile/Dish merger, while still concerned Verizon might try for Dish. Although, I'd much rather Verizon go with the big cable companies, as being rumored. If T-Mobile gets Dish, then it puts them as the carrier with the 2nd most amount of spectrum, behind Sprint, although very closely ahead of the spectrum amount AT&T has. Merging with Dish would make T-Mobile a very strong competitive force against AT&T, while putting Verizon in a difficult situation, particularly regarding spectrum. Verizon would likely either need to try getting Sprint, or else make a major push for their own high-band spectrum ib a way similar to Sprint getting Clearwire and its excellent band 41 spectrum portfolio.

Why would VZW buy anything cable?  They have been in the process of selling it.  Froniter just recently purchased $10 billion worth of customers (2.2 million) and infrastructure in 3 states.  If anything, Dish would be the most likely, if not some type of lease agreement just to get that spectrum. 

 

Dish's market cap is at $30 billion.  Unless DT does a direct investment to purchase a large chunk of Dish, best TMobile can do is lease.  If TMobile/DT makes a move for Dish, keep an eye out on DT.  I wouldn't be surprised for them to sell off some assets to fund a Dish purchase.

 

The big four I think would have a hard time with any type of acquisition of each other.  I think the only way Sprint could successfully merge with a tier one is if not much spectrum is lost in the deal, and Sprint is on its way to file for bankruptcy.

[Arysyn]

Why would VZW buy anything cable? They have been in the process of selling it. Froniter just recently purchased $10 billion worth of customers (2.2 million) and infrastructure in 3 states. If anything, Dish would be the most likely, if not some type of lease agreement just to get that spectrum.

 

Dish's market cap is at $30 billion. Unless DT does a direct investment to purchase a large chunk of Dish, best TMobile can do is lease. If TMobile/DT makes a move for Dish, keep an eye out on DT. I wouldn't be surprised for them to sell off some assets to fund a Dish purchase.

 

The big four I think would have a hard time with any type of acquisition of each other. I think the only way Sprint could successfully merge with a tier one is if not much spectrum is lost in the deal, and Sprint is on its way to file for bankruptcy.

You very well may be right, as you make a good case for Verizon. It is possible Verizon may pass on the idea of going after cable, and trying for Dish. There is quite a bit of speculation pertaining to both, and I'm not sure which to believe is more likely to happen.

 

Verizon needs spectrum badly. They definitely will get it some way. What is certain, is they are aiming for high-band spectrum for 5G, and their current mid-band and low-band spectrum is their 4G fallback for 5G. The issue is if that will be enough spectrum still. AT&T certainly has plenty of 4G spectrum, as will T-Mobile, if T-Mobile gets Dish. Verizon would be smart to get Dish, both for giving themselves enough 4G spectrum, as well to keep that away from T-Mobile.

 

However, if T-Mobile gets Dish, and Verizon goes for cable, then Verizon will be in a bind for enough 4G spectrum. I think that is why Verizon might consider going for Sprint, because it'll give them both additional PCS spectrum they need, along with "beachfront" 5G spectrum, using Sprint's band 41 spectrum.

 

Either way, it'll be interesting what happens.

[ericdabbs]

You very well may be right, as you make a good case for Verizon. It is possible Verizon may pass on the idea of going after cable, and trying for Dish. There is quite a bit of speculation pertaining to both, and I'm not sure which to believe is more likely to happen.

 

Verizon needs spectrum badly. They definitely will get it some way. What is certain, is they are aiming for high-band spectrum for 5G, and their current mid-band and low-band spectrum is their 4G fallback for 5G. The issue is if that will be enough spectrum still. AT&T certainly has plenty of 4G spectrum, as will T-Mobile, if T-Mobile gets Dish. Verizon would be smart to get Dish, both for giving themselves enough 4G spectrum, as well to keep that away from T-Mobile.

 

However, if T-Mobile gets Dish, and Verizon goes for cable, then Verizon will be in a bind for enough 4G spectrum. I think that is why Verizon might consider going for Sprint, because it'll give them both additional PCS spectrum they need, along with "beachfront" 5G spectrum, using Sprint's band 41 spectrum.

 

Either way, it'll be interesting what happens.

 

Yes Verizon does need spectrum and they are looking for high band spectrum as part of their acquisition.  Verizon is even considering a counter offer for Straight Path spectrum of $1.6 billion by AT&T for their 28 GHz and 39 GHz spectrum assets.

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/verizon-may-challenge-at-t-s-1-6b-bid-for-straight-path-report

 

I don't think Verizon is going to ever consider Sprint as a possible merger.  Verizon has much more to lose with a merger with Sprint especially if it involves a breakup fee.  Sprint wouldn't want licenses as a breakup fee but rather large sums of cash to continue their 2.5 GHz LTE and small cell deployment activities.  That is what I would want if I were Sprint considering their debt load and need for network CapEx.

 

So that remains to be seen what will Dish do with their spectrum assets just sitting there.

[Arysyn]

Yes Verizon does need spectrum and they are looking for high band spectrum as part of their acquisition. Verizon is even considering a counter offer for Straight Path spectrum of $1.6 billion by AT&T for their 28 GHz and 39 GHz spectrum assets.

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/verizon-may-challenge-at-t-s-1-6b-bid-for-straight-path-report

 

I don't think Verizon is going to ever consider Sprint as a possible merger. Verizon has much more to lose with a merger with Sprint especially if it involves a breakup fee. Sprint wouldn't want licenses as a breakup fee but rather large sums of cash to continue their 2.5 GHz LTE and small cell deployment activities. That is what I would want if I were Sprint considering their debt load and need for network CapEx.

 

So that remains to be seen what will Dish do with their spectrum assets just sitting there.

I figure it is quite likely either T-Mobile or Verizon is going to get Dish. There seems little doubt otherwise, though it is possible they'll be left alone without a merger. If that happens, it'll be curious what they will do. I highly doubt they'd start their own wireless company, regardless of what some analysts suggest.

 

If Sprint doesn't get the T-Mobile merger, as I expect they won't, hopefully that will get Sprint to go ahead and start spending on deployment and densification. By doing so, Sprint will have an excellent network with their already great band 41 spectrum. It is the one thing I really like alot about Sprint, and I would switch to Sprint if only they had a dense, very heavily, fully deployed band 41 network.

 

What I believe would make Sprint really great, is by focusing on that one band of spectrum, customers connecting to it would stay on that one, very wide lane of bandwidth throughout their data session. Whereas with other carriers, its bouncing around band to band trying to find the best signal, while speeds are rarely ever constant. With Sprint though, that wouldn't be a problem with a strong focus on band 41.

 

This is why I think Sprint is more valuable than what some think. After all, I'm more positive about Sprint than many, especially in that regard. I'm only negative when it comes to Softbank's running of Sprint. Which reminds me, there still may be a chance that Dish could get Sprint from Softbank. While I'd rather T-Mobile had Dish, a Sprint/Dish merger wouldn't be bad at all.