T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2

[EvanA]

Is there any chance Sprint would acquire Dish' 1900 nationwide specrum if they merge with T mobile since they would probably have to dump some spectrum?

No chance. PCS H block is useless to Sprint. The T-Mobile merger ship has long sailed.

[smooth25]

I meant T mobile and Dish merger. I thought Dish' 1900 was useable for Sprint.

[avb]

Weren't there different power transmitting requirements for the H block?  Therefore you couldn't combine with the G block to make a single 10x10 band?  

[bigsnake49]

Rough rough numbers: The combined entity appears to be looking at an immediate long term debt load around 49B and equity somewhere between 17 and 18B. Tmo's equity position better than Dish's on paper, but Dish numbers may not include all of the assets that Ergen has amassed through separate entities. Will be interested to see what kind of combined cash on hand the new entity is projected to have and exactly how Ergen intends on financing the 35B+ we know Softbank was going to have to come up with to buy out DT.

 

I always expected Ergen to want more of a partnership and a seat at the table than an outright acquisition or the creation of a new entity. He is the kind of person who assesses risk and then immediately assumes the "worst case scenario" as a means of negotiating a better price. I think we're weeks away from hearing that there is a merger or acquisition agreement.

So $49B if there is a merger and $49B + 35B if there is an acquisition.

[JThorson]

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/analysts-t-mobiledish-deal-could-put-pressure-verizon-and-sprint-would-be-b/2015-06-04

 

 

Interesting.... Does anyone think this could actually happen, and if so could it be good or bad for Sprint?

[EvanA]

I meant T mobile and Dish merger. I thought Dish' 1900 was useable for Sprint.

Weren't there different power transmitting requirements for the H block? Therefore you couldn't combine with the G block to make a single 10x10 band?

Sprint's equipment does not support the PCS H block. It does have lower power output limits because it borders AWS-4 uplink. The other issue is that there is not LTE frequency band standardized for the PCS H block, so Sprint would have to spend lots of time and money getting a band standardized and included in devices.

[JeffDTD]

So $49B if there is a merger and $49B + 35B if there is an acquisition.

Yes, but the numbers that get advertised in support if either scenario will be lower. Expect to be told of synergies, savings and restructuring of long term debt. Support of the deal will likely focus on the debt relative to equity, because the debt will be acceptable relative to value of equity/assets. Debt doesn't tell the whole story. The -projection- of how the new entity will fund participation in a new spectrum auction and the network expansion that Ergen has said he envisioned for Sprint and more recently "T-Mobile....needs to be in more places" will be of particular interest. Should a deal be made, final approval and closing of that deal probably happens in early to mid 2016... Right before the infamous 600mhz auction is apparently to be held.

[JeffDTD]

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/analysts-t-mobiledish-deal-could-put-pressure-verizon-and-sprint-would-be-b/2015-06-04

 

 

Interesting.... Does anyone think this could actually happen, and if so could it be good or bad for Sprint?

I don't understand the statement " We think that Sprint will have value as the last remaining wireless independent asset in the U.S. "

 

What makes sprint more independant than Verizon? AOL is a media company, but its not a content carrier the same way Dish or Direct would be. The path to sprint growing its access to digital and broadcast media doesn't require a mega merger or troves of cash. And of all the carriers, Sprint -actually- has the airwaves to realistically pursue fixed content delivery over wireless. I suspect the statement is more motivated by the idea that Softbank remains some kind of silent, deadbeat parent.

[Deval]

I don't understand the statement " We think that Sprint will have value as the last remaining wireless independent asset in the U.S. "

 

What makes sprint more independant than Verizon? AOL is a media company, but its not a content carrier the same way Dish or Direct would be. The path to sprint growing its access to digital and broadcast media doesn't require a mega merger or troves of cash. And of all the carriers, Sprint -actually- has the airwaves to realistically pursue fixed content delivery over wireless. I suspect the statement is more motivated by the idea that Softbank remains some kind of silent, deadbeat parent.

 

Or in the aspect of being an Internet company, which Verizon is not (FiOS, landlines, etc.).

 

Sprint has wireline (SprintLink and MPLS), and wireless services. No TV, no fiber to prem, no last mile, nothing of that sort.

[gusherb]

So it looks like the 15x15 upgrade for the Chicago market has taken place at least in Northwest Indiana. No reports over the border in IL yet but somebody on HoFo not too far from me mentioned it and then I confirmed it for myself. My speeds at home have gone from 20-30 to 30-40. 

 

I left T-Mobile May 30th so it could've happened anytime between then and a day or two ago. [/url]

[Arysyn]

This may sound shocking from me, but after my latest try on Sprint which has turned out to be disastrous, I'm actually thankful my mother has kept our T-Mobile account in tact. As disappointed as I've been in T-Mobile around here in Chicago, Sprint makes T-Mobile look really good. Also, if the report by gusherb is any indication of what T-Mobile will be here after the spectrum update, then it looks like I'll stick with T-Mobile, especially if Dish mergers with them, giving T-Mobile an amazing spectrum environment here.

[EvanA]

So it looks like the 15x15 upgrade for the Chicago market has taken place at least in Northwest Indiana. No reports over the border in IL yet but somebody on HoFo not too far from me mentioned it and then I confirmed it for myself. My speeds at home have gone from 20-30 to 30-40.

 

I left T-Mobile May 30th so it could've happened anytime between then and a day or two ago. [/url]

Probably a test cluster. HSPA shutdown is scheduled for the 1st of July in the Chicago market.

[EvanA]

This may sound shocking from me, but after my latest try on Sprint which has turned out to be disastrous, I'm actually thankful my mother has kept our T-Mobile account in tact. As disappointed as I've been in T-Mobile around here in Chicago, Sprint makes T-Mobile look really good. Also, if the report by gusherb is any indication of what T-Mobile will be here after the spectrum update, then it looks like I'll stick with T-Mobile, especially if Dish mergers with them, giving T-Mobile an amazing spectrum environment here.

The only spectrum that would be easily deployed from a Dish buyout is AWS-3. AWS-4 and PCS H block both need device support, and PCS H needs a new band created by 3GPP.

[gusherb]

Probably a test cluster. HSPA shutdown is scheduled for the 1st of July in the Chicago market.

Yeah that "cluster" would be Northern Lake County, IN. Would make sense cuz its a relatively easy area I think to deal with and there isn't really any congestion to speak of and a probably not ridiculously high subscriber rate here either.

[Arysyn]

The only spectrum that would be easily deployed from a Dish buyout is AWS-3. AWS-4 and PCS H block both need device support, and PCS H needs a new band created by 3GPP.

Mainly what I'm interested in is the AWS-3 benefit to T-Mobile. Despite my issues with T-Mobile, I've been very hopeful they'd find a way to get more spectrum on a nationwide scale, but also here in Chicago where they really need it. Although gusherb's experience with the upgrade to 15x15 sounds like it will have a much more positive effect than I had been led to believe it would by another member here. I believe gusherb's report though and am looking forward to at least some improvement with T-Mobile, until I make a decision whether to stay with T-Mobile or go with Verizon, as this time between carriers has also helped me to think of ways to minimize my data usage. So, 15GB on Verizon may end up being enough for me after all.

[EvanA]

Mainly what I'm interested in is the AWS-3 benefit to T-Mobile. Despite my issues with T-Mobile, I've been very hopeful they'd find a way to get more spectrum on a nationwide scale, but also here in Chicago where they really need it. Although gusherb's experience with the upgrade to 15x15 sounds like it will have a much more positive effect than I had been led to believe it would by another member here. I believe gusherb's report though and am looking forward to at least some improvement with T-Mobile, until I make a decision whether to stay with T-Mobile or go with Verizon, as this time between carriers has also helped me to think of ways to minimize my data usage. So, 15GB on Verizon may end up being enough for me after all.

Gusherb's observations are not a good benchmark for how the rest of the market will fair. He even stated that he is in a low congestion area. There are many places in Chicago where T-Mobile is way over capacity, and that extra 5MHz of downlink may not do much to relieve that.

[gusherb]

Gusherb's observations are not a good benchmark for how the rest of the market will fair. He even stated that he is in a low congestion area. There are many places in Chicago where T-Mobile is way over capacity, and that extra 5MHz of downlink may not do much to relieve that.

Yeah, that was at home on a pretty much unloaded sector of the tower. But in an area that was previously 1 Mbps I would venture a guess and say that should be up toward 4-6 Mbps now.

I have no idea what's gonna happen in downtown Chi, probably nothing. It'll more likely help in all the outlying areas where congestion wasn't that bad to begin with. Either way it's sortof a YMMV thing, I personally could've stayed with them easily because I never ran into any crippling congestion.

[Fraydog]

If you look at NetIndex, T-Mobile actually averages lower than Sprint in the city proper, as it does for the entire state of Illinois. It's one of the few places in the Continental United States where that's true. T-Mobile, for some reason, really lags there. They need the 15x15 in the city. They also need the 700A but they may never ben able to get any sort of low band in Chicagoland. 

 

Verizon is pretty much way faster in IL when you look at the statistics. Considering the huge government contracts Verizon has here, that's not a shock. 

[Paynefanbro]

If you look at NetIndex, T-Mobile actually averages lower than Sprint in the city proper, as it does for the entire state of Illinois. It's one of the few places in the Continental United States where that's true. T-Mobile, for some reason, really lags there. They need the 15x15 in the city. They also need the 700A but they may never ben able to get any sort of low band in Chicagoland. 

 

Verizon is pretty much way faster in IL when you look at the statistics. Considering the huge government contracts Verizon has here, that's not a shock. 

 

One thing I find weird about Netindex is the multiple names for Sprint. One is called Sprintcom and the other is Sprint PCS. In Boston, Sprint PCS's average speeds are listed as 22Mbps which makes it the fastest carrier in the city however, you can only see this if you look at the broadband rankings. If you try to switch to mobile, Sprint isn't listed.

 

In Chicago, in Top ISP's T-Mobile is listed as the second fastest and Sprint PCS is basically tied with AT&T for last at 12 Mbps.

[Arysyn]

Gusherb's observations are not a good benchmark for how the rest of the market will fair. He even stated that he is in a low congestion area. There are many places in Chicago where T-Mobile is way over capacity, and that extra 5MHz of downlink may not do much to relieve that.

I should mention my main area of usage is. I often go from the Burr Ridge area to Westmont/Oak Brook, Schaumburg, and Naperville/Woodridge. Where my grandmother lived, after she passed away a few months ago I stayed over at that house until returning home a few weeks ago. During the time I was there, T-Mobile/MetroPCS was pretty bad at under 5mbps, where Sprint was between 10-20mbps. This is around three blocks away from where my grandmother lived. Now at home, T-Mobile is around 30-50mbps, where Sprint is under 5mbps.

 

When I go to Schaumburg, Sprint gets around 15mbps and up, which is very good, while T-Mobile gets less than 5mbps. Same pretty much in the Westmont/Oak Brook area but then reverse in the others, the Naperville/Woodridge area being good for T-Mobile, very bad for Sprint. These of course are my observations from my own experiences, so please no one think I'm judging networks here, but merely comparing my experiences.

 

I would like to know how much of a speed increase might there be from those numbers I got on T-Mobile once the spectrum is increased. I'm begunning to have a more positive outlook for T-Mobile with the talk about Dish, even though that is awhile away from happening. Although the Verizon idea is tempting. Any opinions on differences between speeds between T-Mobile and Verizon using the examples of my experiences?

[bigsnake49]

I guess DT isn't as keen to merging with Dish as Dish is, according to Fiercewireless. They definitely like to merge with Sprint, though or Comcast. They would also like to jointly bid with Sprint in the upcoming auction!

 

Now Dish, shoo, shoo.... ????

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/report-dt-ceo-not-keen-t-mobiledish-merger-holds-out-hope-sprint-deal/2015-06-09

Edited June 9, 2015 by bigsnake49

[bigsnake49]

So if that comes to pass, where does it leave Dish? Will they come crawling to Sprint to host their spectrum? What will Sprint ask for? Dish is not flush with cash. PCS H to begin with? Free video for Sprint customers? Let's be creative about this!

[JeffDTD]

There was also an article yesterday before this news from DT that speculated that Ergen was more interested in flushing out all the potential bidders for TMo as a means of finding its "actual value" and then would be likely to either pursue a limited partnership or tie dish into a three way deal of some sort. And to me, that sounds more like the Charlie we know. Remember, it took Sprint's announcement that it was being sold for him to climb the fence, jump and declare he wanted to buy. It also took him seeing what Softbank was going to pay before he felt good about an offer price.

[bigsnake49]

There was also an article yesterday before this news from DT that speculated that Ergen was more interested in flushing out all the potential bidders for TMo as a means of finding its "actual value" and then would be likely to either pursue a limited partnership or tie dish into a three way deal of some sort. And to me, that sounds more like the Charlie we know. Remember, it took Sprint's announcement that it was being sold for him to climb the fence, jump and declare he wanted to buy. It also took him seeing what Softbank was going to pay before he felt good about an offer price.

It would not surprise me at all. He probably is so cheap that he does not want to pay millions of $ to investment bankers to advise him.

[Arysyn]

From what I've read, many fanboys and fangirls of T-Mobile seem to really dislike the head of DT for all of his attempts and comments about his strong desire to sell off T-Mobile. While I'm not particularly a big fan of T-Mobile, I'd certainly agree with them regarding how this man seems to operate, but I'd also agree selling T-Mobile to a company with strong wireless assets, such as Dish or Sprint, is important for T-Mobile's future.

 

However, I'm pretty shocked by the mention of Comcast in this. That must really anger a lot of T-Mobile fans. I think with T-Mobile alone, that would be pretty disastrous, though I find it very interesting he is thinking of Comcast/Sprint/T-Mobile, as I've already called out here on S4GRU of a potential Comcast/Sprint deal.

 

While I have nothing against Softbank's ownership of Sprint, and I mean no offense by this thought, but I do see it as a possibility for Softbank to sell Sprint to Comcast or even Softbank purchasing Comcast, though the latter being much less likely. If Verizon does decide to attempt to purchase Dish, as being speculated on currently, then it seems even more likely Comcast would try to get Sprint. I'm doubting T-Mobile is going to be a suitable option for Comcast, unless T-Mobile is with Sprint. They may even have a better case for it to give to the FCC if Verizon goes for Dish, and AT&T has DirecTv.