T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2

[markjcc]

Geeze it seems like T-Mobile is always having a major outrage every few months.

 

 

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I haven't seen any big news lately on Sprint outages, mostly T-Mobile is impacted

 

Also :X http://thenextweb.com/mobile/2015/07/17/t-mobile-to-pay-17-5-million-over-last-years-911-outage-nationwide/

[WiWavelength]

T-MO down in WA https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/3vjmuq/tmobile_service_down_in_washington_state/

Geeze it seems like T-Mobile is always having a major outrage every few months.

 

Is that "outrage" a Freudian slip?

 

This is classic T-Mobile.  No in market roaming fallback.  You should be fine if you need to make a 911 call.  But for any other cellular calls, SMS, or data, you are shit out of luck.

 

AJ

[markjcc]

Is that "outrage" a Freudian slip?

 

This is classic T-Mobile.  No in market roaming fallback.  You should be fine if you need to make a 911 call.  But for any other cellular calls, SMS, or data, you are shit out of luck.

 

AJ

Does Sprint drop to Verizon roaming if there ever is an outage?

[WiWavelength]

Does Sprint drop to Verizon roaming if there ever is an outage?

 

Yes, at the very least.  In some markets, USCC or other CDMA2000 operators will be higher priority in the PRL.  But VZW is a fallback of last resort.  Sprint has the most extensive roaming agreement breadth and depth of the big four.

 

AJ

[cortney]

Geeze it seems like T-Mobile is always having a major outrage every few months.

 

You didn't know? It's the next ReCarrier move. 

 

GambleOn: Play Russian Roulette with your service in the name of saving power -- for the environment, or something. Random outages to help save power at the cost of reliability and quality of service. We'll even occasionally shut our home market off or a market near you. 

 

Because who needs coverage. Just go back inside!

Edited December 5, 2015 by cortney

[markjcc]

You didn't know? It's the next ReCarrier move. 

 

GambleOn: Play Russian Roulette with your service in the name of saving power -- for the environment, or something. Random outages to help save power at the cost of reliability and quality of service. We'll even occasionally shut our home market off or a market near you. 

 

Because who needs coverage. Just go back inside!

 

Who need Cellular connection? Go back inside and use that WiFi router we gave you.

 

Roaming? Who gives a sh*t We're the 'un'carrier, See?

[JWMaloney]

Is that "outrage" a Freudian slip?

 

This is classic T-Mobile. No in market roaming fallback. You should be fine if you need to make a 911 call. But for any other cellular calls, SMS, or data, you are shit out of luck.

 

AJ

Does Sprint drop to Verizon roaming if there ever is an outage?

Yes, at the very least. In some markets, USCC or other CDMA2000 operators will be higher priority in the PRL. But VZW is a fallback of last resort. Sprint has the most extensive roaming agreement breadth and depth of the big four.

 

AJ

EDIT: mobile ate my post

The last few times I experienced a Sprint outage, Verizon didn't let anything but 9-1-1 calls through. In-market roaming isn't designed to failover an entire market.

[cortney]

Who need Cellular connection? Go back inside and use that WiFi router we gave you.

 

Roaming? Who gives a sh*t We're the 'un'carrier, See?

 

Actually, you should have a cellular connection inside. The new cellspot thing we gave you steals your internet connection and spits it out on your property and the immediate areas for any magentans to use for drive-by speed testings. 

 

But if you don't want your own internet connection to count against your data, then yes, use your WiFi (with Wi-Fi calling for your service. But that's if it works today and your calls don't drop with a perfectly good internet connection). 

 

[markjcc]

Actually, you should have a cellular connection inside. The new cellspot thing we gave you steals your internet connection and spits it out on your property and the immediate areas for any magentans to use for drive-by speed testings. 

 

But if you don't want your own internet connection to count against your data, then yes, use your WiFi (with Wi-Fi calling for your service. But that's if it works today and your calls don't drop with a perfectly good internet connection). 

 

 

Introducing SpeedSpot, Now get excellent data speeds and coverage in your neighborhood*

*Available near residential areas

 

*Poor Legere's version of NGN*

[Arysyn]

You didn't know? It's the next ReCarrier move. 

 

GambleOn: Play Russian Roulette with your service in the name of saving power -- for the environment, or something. Random outages to help save power at the cost of reliability and quality of service. We'll even occasionally shut our home market off or a market near you. 

 

Because who needs coverage. Just go back inside!

 

The indoors, the "Incarrier", though Verizon might not like that, since they use to use the term "In", for their marketing. Perhaps Verizon ought to bring that back, and be the "Incarrier", as a way of snubbing T-Mobile.

[Fraydog]

The indoors, the "incarrier", though Verizon might not like that, since they use to use the term "In", for their marketing. Perhaps Verizon ought to bring that back, and be the "incarrier", as a way of snubbing T-Mobile.

Incarrier because their signal covers in building?

 

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[Arysyn]

Incarrier because their signal covers in building?

 

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Could be. I think it would make a wise choice for a wireless marketing strategy, both in general and as opposition to T-Mobile.

 

Verizon use to use the term "the In-network", so it would be a relatively simple thing to do in using the "Incarrier" branding. Perhaps Verizon could hire a youthful, hip-like spokesperson to lead a new Premium Value service to take on T-Mobile using the "Incarrier" branding, and also compete against AT&T's Cricket with it too. 

[Fraydog]

This picture is why I didn't switch to T-Mobile.

 

 

Or, it is a graphical representation of why, I should say. It is just hard to justify building in the white gap without low band. The LTE they have put up is fast. It is just hard to see how they catch up here without a 700 MHz play. They could strike a deal for the 700 MHz block USCC has here, but I don't see USCC parting with it for cheap. If I lived in an area with Extended Range LTE, I would have went with them. Where I live, T-Mobile kind of has to wait for the 600 MHz auction.

 

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[joshuam]

This picture is why I didn't switch to T-Mobile.

 

 

Or, it is a graphical representation of why, I should say. It is just hard to justify building in the white gap without low band. The LTE they have put up is fast. It is just hard to see how they catch up here without a 700 MHz play. They could strike a deal for the 700 MHz block USCC has here, but I don't see USCC parting with it for cheap. If I lived in an area with Extended Range LTE, I would have went with them. Where I live, T-Mobile kind of has to wait for the 600 MHz auction.

 

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I couldn't imagine using T-Mobile if they didn't have band 12 here. Even with a fairly dense network, band 12 really changes things as far as coverage goes.

[cortney]

Introducing SpeedSpot, Now get excellent data speeds and coverage in your neighborhood*

*Available near residential areas

 

*Poor Legere's version of NGN*

 

Oh no, that's SpeedHopping. It's to replace Pool Hopping.

 

The new way to troll your neighbors! Be sure to take a selfie. "This one's only got a 20/2 plan! LAME!  "

[S4GRU]

EDIT: mobile ate my post

The last few times I experienced a Sprint outage, Verizon didn't let anything but 9-1-1 calls through. In-market roaming isn't designed to failover an entire market.

I have had it in New Mexico when a fiber line was cut and the entire Sprint network went down that we roamed on Commnet, Cricket and Verizon throughout the Sprint footprint. My guess if the burden is too great on Verizon, then they choose to limit roaming for self preservation sake. Likely on a case by case basis.

 

In my instance since there was significant Commnet and Cricket coverage inside the Sprint footprint in New Mexico, the burden was not severe enough that Verizon felt it needed to limit all the Sprint customers suddenly dumped on their network. In the cases you reference, perhaps the burden was greater?

 

I would imagine in a place where Sprint has a relatively high market share and there are few to zero other roaming providers than Verizon, I imagine Verizon would have to limit Sprint roaming if their delicate 3G/1x network is being overwhelmed. Especially nowadays while they are thinning the CDMA network.

 

Using Tapatalk on Note 8.0

[JWMaloney]

I would imagine in a place where Sprint has a relatively high market share and there are few to zero other roaming providers than Verizon, I imagine Verizon would have to limit Sprint roaming if their delicate 3G/1x network is being overwhelmed. Especially nowadays while they are thinning the CDMA network.

Indeed. Let's hope they make good on their plan to over-build in those areas.

[jroepcke51]

I have had it in New Mexico when a fiber line was cut and the entire Sprint network went down that we roamed on Commnet, Cricket and Verizon throughout the Sprint footprint. My guess if the burden is too great on Verizon, then they choose to limit roaming for self preservation sake. Likely on a case by case basis.

 

In my instance since there was significant Commnet and Cricket coverage inside the Sprint footprint in New Mexico, the burden was not severe enough that Verizon felt it needed to limit all the Sprint customers suddenly dumped on their network. In the cases you reference, perhaps the burden was greater?

 

I would imagine in a place where Sprint has a relatively high market share and there are few to zero other roaming providers than Verizon, I imagine Verizon would have to limit Sprint roaming if their delicate 3G/1x network is being overwhelmed. Especially nowadays while they are thinning the CDMA network.

 

Using Tapatalk on Note 8.0

I remember that and it was crazy.

[reedacus25]

You didn't know? It's the next ReCarrier move.

 

GambleOn: Play Russian Roulette with your service in the name of saving power -- for the environment, or something. Random outages to help save power at the cost of reliability and quality of service. We'll even occasionally shut our home market off or a market near you.

 

Because who needs coverage. Just go back inside!

Not to give T-Mobile a free pass, but the issue was their transport provider. Not really something they have complete control over.

 

https://twitter.com/bbraunlich/status/673154523125288960

 

As for the roaming situation, I think it would be wise to flash open roaming in the affected LAC's, but if you have T-Mobile, you already know/expect there to be no in-market roaming (or out-of-market in most cases). It's a cost reduction they have always incurred for better or worse.

 

 

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[markjcc]

Not to give T-Mobile a free pass, but the issue was their transport provider. Not really something they have complete control over.

 

https://twitter.com/bbraunlich/status/673154523125288960

 

As for the roaming situation, I think it would be wise to flash open roaming in the affected LAC's, but if you have T-Mobile, you already know/expect there to be no in-market roaming (or out-of-market in most cases). It's a cost reduction they have always incurred for better or worse.

 

 

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So no fail-over on backhaul on their sites? nice 'uncarrier' move there.

 

Calls have been dropping on VoLTE for me in my area, maybe it's related to the pathetic 0.02Mbps Upload.. I give Pity to all T-Mobile customers in my area..

 

The T-Mobile store looks like its getting emptied and the Sprint store is getting fuller and fuller each day.

[reedacus25]

So no fail-over on backhaul on their sites? nice 'uncarrier' move there.

 

Calls have been dropping on VoLTE for me in my area, maybe it's related to the pathetic 0.02Mbps Upload.. I give Pity to all T-Mobile customers in my area..

 

The T-Mobile store looks like its getting emptied and the Sprint store is getting fuller and fuller each day.

Is it economical to have redundant backhaul at every site? No. Especially when you stipulate three-9's or higher in your SLA agreement with your AAV vendor.

 

If you want to double OpEx by pulling redundant T1's to all of your sites, have at it, but I don't want to pay for that.

 

Any further details like location, device, etc related to your dropped VoLTE calls? Curious about that because aside from coverage issues, VoLTE has pretty much been rock solid for me for over a year.

 

 

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[markjcc]

Is it economical to have redundant backhaul at every site? No. Especially when you stipulate three-9's or higher in your SLA agreement with your AAV vendor.

 

If you want to double OpEx by pulling redundant T1's to all of your sites, have at it, but I don't want to pay for that.

 

Any further details like location, device, etc related to your dropped VoLTE calls? Curious about that because aside from coverage issues, VoLTE has pretty much been rock solid for me for over a year.

 

 

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LG Leon, Kahului HI 96732. The area I'm at is getting served by a cell site that was recently upgraded months ago on Dairy Road.

 

Turning off VoLTE seems to help

 

 

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[JWMaloney]

Is it economical to have redundant backhaul at every site? No. Especially when you stipulate three-9's or higher in your SLA agreement with your AAV vendor.

 

If you want to double OpEx by pulling redundant T1's to all of your sites, have at it, but I don't want to pay for that.

 

Any further details like location, device, etc related to your dropped VoLTE calls? Curious about that because aside from coverage issues, VoLTE has pretty much been rock solid for me for over a year.

 

 

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Does VoLTE have QoS priority?

[reedacus25]

Yes.

 

VoLTE uses LTE QCI (QoS Class Identifier) 1 which is the highest priority, save for QCI 5 which is the highest priority and is for IMS signaling. QCI 1-4 are guaranteed bitrate priority, where as QCI 5-9 are not guaranteed a minimum bitrate.

 

RCS services should be allocated at QCI 2, which is earmarked for "Conversational Video." It is lower priority than VoLTE, but higher priority than standard traffic.

 

I am unsure what QCI header is being used for standard traffic. Looks to be either QCI 6, 8, or 9.

 

In theory different APN's could have traffic delivered at different QCI priority. 

 

Interestingly enough, the tolerance for packet loss is the least for VoLTE (for obvious reasons), but IMS signaling is more tolerant. Just an interesting anecdote. 

 

Also looks like LTE Rel-12 introduced "Mission critical" prioritization.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QoS_Class_Identifier

[joshuam]

Per COO Mike Seivert...T-Mobiles churn is down 30bps this QTR. Their best church improvement this year unless it takes a big turn for the worst in December.