Backhaul for 8T8R Band 41

[irev210]

I used to be one of the microwave poopooers but I am on board that when implemented correctly, it's just another tool in the tool box. 

 

 

8.5ms for microwave vs. 13ms for fiber 

http://www.cftc.gov/ucm/groups/public/@newsroom/documents/file/tac021014_budish.pdf

 

 

Faster than fiber (latency, not capacity).

Obviously fiber is still king for capacity, but we've seen huge improvements on that front.

[MacinJosh]

I used to be one of the microwave poopooers but I am on board that when implemented correctly, it's just another tool in the tool box.

 

http://www.cftc.gov/ucm/groups/public/@newsroom/documents/file/tac021014_budish.pdf

 

 

Faster than fiber (latency, not capacity).

Obviously fiber is still king for capacity, but we've seen huge improvements on that front.

In my recent research, in urban Las Vegas, T-Mobile has taken the microwave approach on some sites. My guess is they are having backhaul deployment issues as well.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk 3.1.1

[Fraydog]

In my recent research, in urban Las Vegas, T-Mobile has taken the microwave approach on some sites. My guess is they are having backhaul deployment issues as well.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk 3.1.1

Could be they have issues with Clink just like Sprint does. I've read more than one Magentan located in the LV metro on Reddit or HoFo complaining about CenturyLink.

[MacinJosh]

Could be they have issues with Clink just like Sprint does. I've read more than one Magentan located in the LV metro on Reddit or HoFo complaining about CenturyLink.

That's a good possibility. My best friend uses them for his home internet and has problems on and off.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk 3.1.1

[ryry4ya]

My personal tower, has backhaul hangin Over a year..Still no installer...they just turn on micro couple weeks after 1.5 yrs

[orangeblue]

When Sprint sent the initial RFP to backhaul suppliers in 2011, it requested enough to cover 3 sectors with one 5MHz LTE carrier at each site, and be scalable up from there for additional 5MHz carriers and 20MHz TDD carriers in the future.

 

However, not all sites had nearby backhaul available where that could be done.  So exceptions were made up front at many sites, with future fiber to be added where it would be scalable upon demand.  Also, later in Network Vision, they increased the base amount significantly to be ready for Band 41 wideband carriers.

 

But with ~55,000 sites now, there are so many different scenarios.  Each site is a uniquely different case with how much backhaul is currently supplied and how much more is needed.  And how quickly they can get it there.

 

My best guess is that 50% of NV sites with LTE live will have easily upgradeable backhaul that can be activated in 30-45 days from the order.

 

8T8R markets like Las Vegas seem to be extremely slow and I have never seen speeds past 35MB down. Back home in my home market, I am correct to a Clearwire B41 site and enjoy peaks of 60MB+ down. Not sure why Sprint never asked for more bandwidth?

 

 

 

 

They just fired up tower by house it is to over load now. 5to7mbps most time and 25mbps down at 4am. Starting see lot lower speeds even on band 41 now in delaware. Backhaul not up to par .

 

I have seen b41 speeds drop even lower and it makes WiMax look like road runner.

 

 

One of my favorite anecdotes is the story of a customer about 10 years at a Cingular store asking, "Hey, when are you guys gonna put up more satellites?"

 

Many customers and even industry workers have little understanding of how wireless networks actually function.  And they lack the innate curiosity or intellectual wherewithal to learn.  To them, wireless is basically black magic.

 

AJ

 

 

AT&T used to offer Satellite Service (OSS) with TerreStar. It was a great device, but Dish shut the service off

 

In my recent research, in urban Las Vegas, T-Mobile has taken the microwave approach on some sites. My guess is they are having backhaul deployment issues as well.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk 3.1.1

 

T-Mobile is a joke in so many areas in Las Vegas. Fast one block and super slow at the next.

[S4GRU]

8T8R markets like Las Vegas seem to be extremely slow and I have never seen speeds past 35MB down. Back home in my home market, I am correct to a Clearwire B41 site and enjoy peaks of 60MB+ down. Not sure why Sprint never asked for more bandwidth?

 

Don't make the assumption the issue is Sprint B41 8T8R sites because that's what is occurring in Vegas. I use Sprint B41 sites all the time with speeds over 40Mbps. I just used quite a few in Brighton, Fort Lupton, Longmont, Greeley, Colorado this past weekend that never had Clearwire service and ran 40-60Mbps. Also, we have hundreds of reports from members of Sprint B41 8T8R sites going beyond 40.

 

The issue in Vegas is the initial backhaul provider used AAV that was originally planned for two 5MHz carriers. Clearwire was adding their own backhaul to their sites and going to upgrade their Moto units in Vegas to Huawei to support LTE.

 

However, that was stopped dead in its tracks by Sprint after close of their purchase of CLWR because they decided not to upgrade redundant Clearwire sites with new equipment only to rip it right back out again. They decided just to upgrade B41 at Sprint NV sites and later convert Clearwire sites to ALU B41 at unique locations.

 

But that left the problem that the existing Sprint NV sites in Vegas only have enough backhaul for two carriers running around 40Mbps a piece per sector. Which was to be one B25 carrier and one B26 carrier. Since SB County has delayed B26 deployment, B41 is using its bandwidth currently. Limiting to roughly 40Mbps throughput. If B26 was active, it would be even lower.

 

Sprint has ordered upgraded backhaul to support a Gig or more. It's happening all over the Metro. There has to be a good handful done by now. So there may be some live now supporting higher speeds and you haven't found one yet. Or they are waiting to fire it up when they install additional carriers (like B26 or more B41). Not sure on details. But it is happening.

 

Using Moto X² on Tapatalk

[anthony.spina97]

 

Using Moto X² on Tapatalk

I mean they just tied for first place for God sakes. Lol.

 

-Anthony

[Rawvega]

I certainly don't get this on every site in Vegas, but this indicative of speeds that I've gotten from several sites in areas that I frequent:

 

[MacinJosh]

I know I'm not in Vegas at the moment, but this is still from a Sprint Band 41 site with fully optimized backhaul. So when the backhaul upgrades in Vegas are complete, it'll be common to see this.

 

 

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk

[orangeblue]

Meanwhile, B41 speed suffers and Wimax looks like Road Runner again . I am currently around the MGM for the fight and speeds really dropped on B41

[anthony.spina97]

Meanwhile, B41 speed suffers and Wimax looks like Road Runner again . I am currently around the MGM for the fight and speeds really dropped on B41

Probably because there is several thousand people there trying to see the fight.

 

-Anthony

[banananuts87]

Define drop please

[Dkoellerwx]

Meanwhile, B41 speed suffers and Wimax looks like Road Runner again . I am currently around the MGM for the fight and speeds really dropped on B41

 

They have launched 2 carriers along the Strip on several sites. That means advanced backhaul capabilities are in place. You're just in the wrong spot...  .....especially with the fight going on. No macro network would be able to stand up to that. Probably even two B41 carriers would barely cut it. 

[gs5eric]

How can someone tell if a site or tower was fitted for 8T8R? Or w.e its called that the carrier aggregation was completed for 8T8R??

Edited May 8, 2015 by gs5eric

[orangeblue]

Probably because there is several thousand people there trying to see the fight.

 

-Anthony

 

And it was not worth it. If I want somebody run, I watch a marathon or CNN coverage from what ever city people riot in today.

 

Define drop please

 

Speeds at time dropped to .2MB which is very bad for B41!

 

They have launched 2 carriers along the Strip on several sites. That means advanced backhaul capabilities are in place. You're just in the wrong spot...  .....especially with the fight going on. No macro network would be able to stand up to that. Probably even two B41 carriers would barely cut it. 

 

Where? Like Verizon and their AWS spectrum, not seen any live site in Vegas yet but I have seen them blasting in places like Bakersfield (which is a waste because farm aninmals don't need data - oh wait, there was the Antennalob from Nextel)

[Dkoellerwx]

Where? Like Verizon and their AWS spectrum, not seen any live site in Vegas yet but I have seen them blasting in places like Bakersfield (which is a waste because farm aninmals don't need data - oh wait, there was the Antennalob from Nextel)

 

One of our other members was on the strip this last weekend and confirmed the second B41 carrier on at least 3, maybe 4 sites.

[orangeblue]

One of our other members was on the strip this last weekend and confirmed the second B41 carrier on at least 3, maybe 4 sites.

 

Well the Strip is long and it all depends. I have seen speeds between zero to max of 35 MB down. Sprint really needs to get the backhaul issue fixed.

[S4GRU]

You'd think they would only be firing up second carrier B41 at sites with upgraded backhaul. Otherwise, it won't do any good. So I'm relatively sure they are.

 

Using Moto X² on Tapatalk

[orangeblue]

Max speed I was able to get on the strip, running speed tests between MGM and SLS are 35MB max download. This looks pretty standard for one carrier B41 in Las Vegas with 5x5 backhaul