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IamMrFamous07

Google announces Project Fi: Partners with Sprint and T-Mobile for Network Access (previous title: Google to start it's own Wireless Service; using T-Mobile/Sprint for it's Network Footprint.)

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Lots of users dont even know you can test your speed on a cell phone. It's all about that LTE icon at the top of the screen and the ability to load facebook and you tube.

 

Which is my point exactly, and can be attained with a network running a consistent 8-10mbps.

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I don't see voTLE being such a huge thing for a while. At some point I'm sure Sprint will deploy it, but if we were to look at the competitors who launched VoLTE, how much adoption and usage is there?

 

How many phones support it?

Is it nationwide?

What's the value prop?

Increasing number of phones support it.

 

TMO's volte is nationwide.

 

Decreasing wcdma usage to make room for lte refarm.

Simultaneous voice and data on lte = better user experience.

Interoperable hd voice.

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They could afford to give things away because their cost per search is low because they own the infrastructure.

Even if I was to concede that very flawed point the fact remains that there is a price point. I would be more concerned with how long Google will remain in the MVNO market.

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Increasing number of phones support it.

 

TMO's volte is nationwide.

 

Decreasing wcdma usage to make room for lte refarm.

Simultaneous voice and data on lte = better user experience.

Interoperable hd voice.

 

Again though, how many specific devices? 

 

So Verizon's VoLTE and AT&T (do they even have it?) is not. 

 

Sim v/d is one of those nice to have things that 90% of people wouldn't know or think about if they never had it to begin with. 

 

Interop HD Voice - is that a thing yet? Any plans to make it a thing?

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Again though, how many specific devices?

 

So Verizon's VoLTE and AT&T (do they even have it?) is not.

 

Sim v/d is one of those nice to have things that 90% of people wouldn't know or think about if they never had it to begin with.

 

Interop HD Voice - is that a thing yet? Any plans to make it a thing?

Vzw and att have announced plans for interop volte.

 

The best reason is that 3g spectrum can be refarmed for lte.

 

For now sprints 1xA. 800 is fine but once vzw is not ordering CDMA phones anymore…

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Yes I did. The point still stands. Google has built one of the worlds largest and most profitable business on a model of giving services away. They know how much of a loss they can take on each customer. Keep in mind, that whatever Google believes that it can make in data collection will be used in part to subsidize each customer. Another thing to remember is that Google has also been looking for other avenues to bolster its data collection as it faces more competition in areas such as web browsers.

 

 

They could afford to give things away because their cost per search is low because they own the infrastructure.

 

I believe that what he is saying is that Google also makes money when you USE your phone - unlike the actual carriers (generally speaking).

 

Google makes money on Play Store transactions ( according to http://readwrite.com/2014/01/08/app-store-sales-google-play-android over $1Million per day in January 2014).  So by putting more devices in more people's hands they have an artificial "subsidy" over the actual infrastructure owner/service provider.  That's not to mention the fact that they make money each time you search and accidentally (or not) click on an advertisement (which of course they use their data collection mechanisms to target ads).

 

The same goes with Google Fiber "disrupting" the landline broadband industry.  They make money when you use your internet service so of course they can offer the service at a discounted price (again, artificial subsidy).  These are generally extra revenue sources carriers/providers don't have.  

 

(Not trying to argue for or against Google doing these things since carriers/providers margins can be absurdly high and it is actually competition, driving down prices.)

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Increasing number of phones support it.

 

TMO's volte is nationwide.

 

Decreasing wcdma usage to make room for lte refarm.

Simultaneous voice and data on lte = better user experience.

Interoperable hd voice.

 

I am beginning to wonder if VoLTE will become a late to market afterthought.

 

For the hoi polloi, VoLTE will eventually become the standard.  But for even the moderately tech savvy, over the top VoIP services are widely available -- and they work over LTE, eHRPD/EV-DO, Wi-Fi, etc.  Apple's FaceTime, Google's Hangouts Dialer, and other third party apps.  They can even work on your data only tablet.

 

Sure, VoLTE (I believe) has to adhere to Title II regulations as a telecom service, not an information service.  And VoLTE imposes QoS.  But I am not sure how much that will really matter to end users.

 

So, in many ways, "VoLTE" is already here...

 

AJ

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I am beginning to wonder if VoLTE will become a late to market afterthought.

 

For the hoi polloi, VoLTE will eventually become the standard. But for even the moderately tech savvy, over the top VoIP services are widely available -- and they work over LTE, eHRPD/EV-DO, Wi-Fi, etc. Apple's FaceTime, Google's Hangouts Dialer, and other third party apps. They can even work on your data only tablet.

 

Sure, VoLTE (I believe) has to adhere to Title II regulations as a telecom service, not an information service. And VoLTE imposes QoS. But I am not sure how much that will really matter to end users.

 

So, in many ways, "VoLTE" is already here...

 

AJ

Even if all volte accomplished we're moving voice to lte, it'd be significant.

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Vzw and att have announced plans for interop volte.

 

The best reason is that 3g spectrum can be refarmed for lte.

 

For now sprints 1xA. 800 is fine but once vzw is not ordering CDMA phones anymore…

 

Yeah but that's such a long time from now that it means diddly squat today. Verizon isn't getting away from 1x-based calling for a while, no matter what reports say. 

 

Also, unlike days of past, with Sprint+Softbank+Brightstar, the reliance on Verizon isn't there anymore like before.

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Yeah but that's such a long time from now that it means diddly squat today. Verizon isn't getting away from 1x-based calling for a while, no matter what reports say.

 

Also, unlike days of past, with Sprint+Softbank+Brightstar, the reliance on Verizon isn't there anymore like before.

Vzw has mutiple phones volte enabled.

How does softbank help sprint with the CDMA scale issue?

 

Sprint: "qualcomm don't you dare raise rates for CDMA"

Q: "why shouldn't we?"

S: "cause softbank owns 80% of us and we have a lot of used phones now"

Q: "is softbank gonna put CDMA on their phones too?"

S: "no"

Q: "are you gonna stop using CDMA any sooner"

S: "probably not"

Q: "so why shouldn't we raise CDMA royalties?"

S: silence.

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I implore

Please stop feeding the troll.

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A lot of what VoLTE is as far as benefit is operator specific. First off, it gets legacy users off legacy spectrum, enabling refarming for LTE. Secondly, the quality of service on your average VoLTE call is going to top the quality of service on VoIP services like Google Hangouts, FaceTime, Skype, and things like that, maybe not so much the voice quality but the lag and effect on network load. It integrates into existing phone numbers to a better degree than Skype. It's a nice bump in call quality. It enables handoff from WiFi to LTE for voice calls. It brings to the table rich communications services (that ironically enough Apple handsets don't connect into) as well as the triumphant return of talk and surf. Shorter call setup happens on VoLTE compared to GSM, UMTS, or CDMA 1X. 

 

http://networks.nokia.com/portfolio/solutions/voice-over-lte

 

 

Overall, I think Sprint's case for VoLTE is clear. I realize it may not be as huge a priority with CDMA 1X Advanced in tact, but the ultimate case for the transition is there...

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Again though, how many specific devices? 

 

So Verizon's VoLTE and AT&T (do they even have it?) is not. 

 

Sim v/d is one of those nice to have things that 90% of people wouldn't know or think about if they never had it to begin with. 

 

Interop HD Voice - is that a thing yet? Any plans to make it a thing?

 

Verizon's VoLTE is nationwide. It doesn't matter if I'm in L.A., Bismarck, Miami, or New York...when I press the call button, it's VoLTE. 

 

T-Mobile's network is also nationwide...and it is enabled by default on the devices. T-Mobile's best selling phones (the iPhone 6 and 6+) are enabled by default. Out of the box, the second you start calling, it is done through VoLTE. And, I believe their other flagships are enabled out of the box now too. 

 

Because it is enabled by default, T-Mobile has a huge volume of VoLTE calls. It's not the obscure technology you make it out to be.

 

And, VoLTE is a huge, huge deal. For one, it provides simul. voice & data (a huge deal to people who need it). Most importantly, the call quality is amazing. It's quite literally a night and day difference over even the best-sounding 1x call. 

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Verizon's VoLTE is nationwide. It doesn't matter if I'm in L.A., Bismarck, Miami, or New York...when I press the call button, it's VoLTE. 

 

T-Mobile's network is also nationwide...and it is enabled by default on the devices. T-Mobile's best selling phones (the iPhone 6 and 6+) are enabled by default. Out of the box, the second you start calling, it is done through VoLTE. And, I believe their other flagships are enabled out of the box now too.

 

Yet, VoLTE is not as great as you make it out to be -- because VoLTE coverage is no better than the underlying LTE coverage.  And therein lies the problem.  Neither VZW nor T-Mobile has LTE coverage that matches its 2G/3G coverage footprint.  In building and fringe area coverage are not up to par on the fragile LTE airlink.  That is especially an issue for T-Mobile, which already has the reputation as the worst of the national four operators for in building and fringe area coverage reliability.

 

AJ

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Yet, VoLTE is not as great as you make it out to be -- because VoLTE coverage is no better than the underlying LTE coverage.  And therein lies the problem.  Neither VZW nor T-Mobile has LTE coverage that matches its 2G/3G coverage footprint.  In building and fringe area coverage are not up to par on the fragile LTE airlink.  That is especially an issue for T-Mobile, which already has the reputation as the worst of the national four operators for in building and fringe area coverage reliability.

 

AJ

 

Verizon VoLTE is not a problem. My call drops are substantially less than on Sprint 1x1900 or 1x800. And look at Verizon's CapEx spending---$10.5 BILLION last year and a higher amount this upcoming year...the LTE footprint will soon exceed 2G/3G--especially since I've seen VZW putting up LTE-only cell sites here in California.

 

And, T-Mobile is beginning to have low-band spectrum overlayed on their high-band network grid. They have the densest cell grid already, so low-band spectrum is going to make that unbelievable. More importantly, T-Mobile has VoLTE to WiFi Calling handoffs on devices like the iPhone. In-building penetration isn't a problem when the phone can handoff to a WiFi network. Don't forget that unlike Sprint (and Verizon), T-Mobile can pass the call off to HSPA or GSM too.

 

That Google did not just choose Sprint (which has the trove of 2.5GHz spectrum) and made sure to also sign with T-Mobile is indicative of the fact that they want the advanced network technologies that T-Mobile has (like VoLTE). I don't blame them for also wanting current capabilities over hopes of improvements in the future. 

 

I'm all for liking Sprint, but the fact that they are the only major carrier without VoLTE is inexcusable. Worse, they apparently have no urgency in their timeline for catching up to everyone else.

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That Google did not just choose Sprint (which has the trove of 2.5GHz spectrum) and made sure to also sign with T-Mobile is indicative of the fact that they want the advanced network technologies that T-Mobile has (like VoLTE). I don't blame them for also wanting current capabilities over hopes of improvements in the future.

 

I feel like the biggest reason they are in talks with Sprint and T-Mobile is because they are the only ones that won't charge Goolgle out the wazoo for service.

 

-Anthony

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For all of you who are advocating that Sprint will bring back simultaneous VoLTE and data: There has been no definitive evidence of such guarantee that it will happen. Sprint can lock it down and not allow it to happen with QoS. If you really want voice and data at the same time, use VOIP. I happen to like using Facetime Audio for that very reason.

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It's funny to see people post things like "just use Skype / Hangouts / FaceTime / etc". Perhaps these people haven't actually used VoLTE much -- because while technologically VoLTE is similar, the experience on VoLTE is much better in most metrics (call setup time, call quality, latency, tower handoffs, QoS / reliability) while requiring zero effort to setup or maintain (No extra dial screens, no extra apps to constantly keep running, no battery penalty while idle, no extra accounts, etc)

 

Add in the fact that on properly-managed networks, VoLTE falls back to 3G and then 2G anyway, so you loose almost no voice coverage, and it's an obvious win. Skype / FaceTime can't match that. And while there are still a few rough edges with VoLTE, it's a lot more reliable in day-to-day use than you might expect. (And significantly more reliable than trying to do a FaceTime / Skype call over LTE).

 

VoLTE "just works", and pretty well most of the time.

 

But I get it. Sprint doesn't do VoLTE yet and can't/won't for a good while. So we're supposed to pretend it's no big deal, or an afterthought, or some other silly excuse. I hear that. I understand.

 

But, in the real world, VoLTE is actually pretty nice. Head to a city with solid dual-band LTE coverage, and try it out VoLTE sometime (on any carrier). You might just like it. ;)

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For all of you who are advocating that Sprint will bring back simultaneous VoLTE and data: There has been no definitive evidence of such guarantee that it will happen. Sprint can lock it down and not allow it to happen with QoS. If you really want voice and data at the same time, use VOIP. I happen to like using Facetime Audio for that very reason.

If the other 3 carriers allow simultaneous voice and data throughout their networks then in the long run it will be very difficult for Sprint to hold out on this feature.

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It's funny how this thread has turned into T-mobile cheerleading. I don't give two craps if my calls are completed over 1x or VoLTE - and I'd tender that 99% of America shares my opinion.

My call is completed - that is what I pay for, that is what I care about.

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Oh, and by the way. I took a buddy of mine who has T-mo to my family's house in rural WV. No service..no calls, no data. T mobile will always be irrelevant (in my experience) until they build out rural coverage.

 

But I get it. T mobile doesn't do voice coverage yet in rural america and can't/won't for a good while. So we're supposed to pretend it's no big deal, or an afterthought, or some other silly excuse. I hear that. I understand.

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Oh, and by the way. I took a buddy of mine who has T-mo to my family's house in rural WV. No service..no calls, no data. T mobile will always be irrelevant (in my experience) until they build out rural coverage.

 

But I get it. T mobile doesn't do voice coverage yet in rural america and can't/won't for a good while. So we're supposed to pretend it's no big deal, or an afterthought, or some other silly excuse. I hear that. I understand.

They announced they're gonna have 300mil lte end if this year. But it's still possible they won't cover wv. I wonder if they'll even properly build out Omaha; look at their rootmetrics report.

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With this deal does this back sprint hopefully into a corner to optimize and improve there network as I can see if this becomes popular and the sites aren't spaced for it, there will be experience issues. I hope this is sprint having confidence in there network teams to get the job done by the time,a big name such as google luanches this service over there network. Maybe just, maybe there is more incentive for furter partnership down the lines from the two company's. That would be nice but can't tell till the details and the curtains rises to form a solid thought. Still waiting for sprint band 41 on my home tower everything will be right in my corner of the word when that happens

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http://www.rootmetrics.com/us/rsr/st-louis-mo

 

http://www.rootmetrics.com/us/rsr/baltimore-md

 

http://www.prweb.com/releases/JeffKAGAN-IndustryAnalyst/Sprint-progress-2014-2015/prweb12405655.htm

 

 

He said they announced the roll-out of their nationwide High Definition or HD Voice giving customers a significant improvement in voice performance and quality. 

“I think it’s important to realize that Sprint has more than 24 million HD Voice capable devices in use in their customer base today. This is a brand new segment so this is very strong.” Says Tech Analyst Kagan. 

Sprint is ending 2014 by completing their nationwide deployment of voice services on 800 MHz which improves the coverage quality of their voice footprint, especially indoors.

 

 

http://newsroom.sprint.com/blogs/sprint-perspectives/sprint-meets-its-2014-network-milestones-sets-its-sights-on-the-year-ahead.htm

 

 

 According to Bill Moore, CEO of RootMetrics, “Sprint has shown great improvement in network performance in the 125 major metro areas we study as compared to the first half of this year.  In most of the metro areas we have seen meaningful improvements in Sprint’s overall reliability. Call success rates have shown impactful improvement in nearly half of the metro areas. Consumers in half of the cities we study are experiencing meaningfully faster download speeds.”
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