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Sprint Declares Their Network Vision 'Substantially Complete'


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LA is a mess with regards to the rollout (87% of 3G complete after I think 3+ years of work), but they could at least get the backhaul to the sites that could use it asap.

 

Based on my personal observations, most of the remaining legacy sites in the San Fernando Valley, coastal regions and Hollywood areas fall into these categories:

 

1. Utility pole installations. (Wood poles, not transmission towers)

2. Flagpole/stealth sites.

3. University/College campuses.

4. DAS sites.

 

My wild guess is the holdup for 1&2 may be equipment (panels) that can support all 3 bands since those setups need to be very compact.

 

Backhaul is a different story. That's way more random.

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Since Marcelo was appointed has there been an increase in the speed at which the sites are receiving upgraded backhaul across the country?

 

There is not much Marcelo can do, OEMs/contractors/sub-contractors are working steadily as work is available to them (engineering, permitting,etc).  Marcelo did however change the way B41 was to be rolled out, now "trouble areas" that are strained due to capacity issues will get B41 attention first.  

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Since Marcelo was appointed has there been an increase in the speed at which the sites are receiving upgraded backhaul across the country?

There is not much Marcelo can do...

 

What?!  Marcelo is not magic like John Legere and "rock star" Neville Ray?!  Aw, Sprint sucks!

 

Back to reality, many people do not realize that T-Mobile spent about three and a half years running advanced backhaul -- Neville Ray said as much in an interview.  And that advanced backhaul was run only to some of T-Mobile's sites, not all of T-Mobile's sites.  The time that took is a big reason why T-Mobile circa 2009 was roughly four years behind Sprint in its 3G deployment in many cities.

 

Fast forward to today.  Sprint is about three years in to its advanced backhaul project.  But Sprint is running advanced backhaul to all sites, not just those in cherry picked urban islands.  In certain areas, Sprint's progress may not be as fast as some would like.  But it exceeds what T-Mobile was able to accomplish during its three year advanced backhaul rollout.  Moreover, T-Mobile is just now getting around to most of its rural sites -- eight years later.

 

So, there is your dose of perspective...

 

AJ

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What?!  Marcelo is not magic like John Legere and "rock star" Neville Ray?!  Aw, Sprint sucks!

 

Back to reality, many people do not realize that T-Mobile spent about three and a half years running advanced backhaul -- Neville Ray said as much in an interview.  And that advanced backhaul was run only to some of T-Mobile's sites, not all of T-Mobile's sites.  The time that took is a big reason why T-Mobile circa 2009 was roughly four years behind Sprint in its 3G deployment in many cities.

 

Fast forward to today.  Sprint is about three years in to its advanced backhaul project.  But Sprint is running advanced backhaul to all sites, not just those in cherry picked urban islands.  In certain areas, Sprint's progress may not be as fast as some would like.  But it exceeds what T-Mobile was able to accomplish during its three year advanced backhaul rollout.  Moreover, T-Mobile is just now getting around to most of its rural sites -- eight years later.

 

So, there is your dose of perspective...

 

AJ

Thanks AJ for your technical expertise  :), a lot people live in the "I want it now" and have zero patience when it comes to waiting.  I think Sprint has done a phenomenal job in handling Network Vision in the urban and rural environments along with their nationwide LTE rollout.  All of people can't get their heads wrapped around that Sprint is basically building a new network from the ground up.

 

I do not know how many sites T-Mobile has versus Sprint, I do know that T-Mobile's network here in the Bristol and surrounding area is a rewind back to 2002 with the exception of a few spots in the Kingsport, TN area.  

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Sprint is claiming their network is 'substantially complete'. 260M covered with 1900LTE, about 100M with 2500LTE and approaching 100M with 800LTE. As a Sprint customer, I can say it's improved significantly in last several months but they need 800LTE to cover 260M to fill in the gaps and deeper penetration. 800LTE does work nicely though where it's available..

 

http://www.eweek.com/networking/sprints-lte-network-is-substantially-complete-cfo-says.html

 

 

So here is how Sprint CAN be when there is 100% Spark (800/1900/2500) on every site.   I'm in a condo hirise with solid brick/concrete (midtown KC).  I can get 2500 band in the hallway and here is the test from this morning..
 
2500 band getting over 40Mbps.  Note even though with very low signal due to being in a brick/concrete building...
 
When at bottom of elevator at underground garage, 800 automatically kicks in.  Am able to get 9Mbps.  Note also with a very low signal.
 
This shows it's on 800 band, when I head back upstairs, 2500 eventually kicks back in but may be several minutes...
 
I get this consistently between home and work, which is great, but only because they have Spark on nearly every cellsite (midtown KC to downtown KC), not 70% of sites or less like most Spark markets.
 
I was in a rural area of Tampa last week and got 800 inside a home and getting 5Mbps indoors and up to 20Mbps outdoors.  It would auto switch to 1900/2500 when approaching the site, but I noticed they didn't have 800 on every cellsite in the area and it needs to be.
 
If Sprint can do Spark (800/1900/2500) on nearly every cellsite they have, they'll be in good shape.  They can blow away Tmobile and actually compete with ATT/VZW.  100M coverage with 800/2500 won't cut it.
 
For those working at Sprint, please push new CEO to have a 2015 campaign to get Spark on nearly every cellsite, not 100M pops coverage with 800/2500.  If they think the network is 'substantially complete', they are in trouble.  In many so called Spark markets, they may have Spark on only every 3rd site and it's like swiss cheese.

 

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They could easily surpass Tmobile if getting this most everywhere.

 

Not gonna happen with 2.5GHz anytime soon. 800MHz will be everywhere, 2.5GHz is for markets that need it. They're not stopping at 100M either. It's just the goal for 2014 since it basically launched this year.

 

Network Vision 1.0 is substantially complete, 2.0 is a different story.

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I agree.  Triband everywhere will differentiate Sprint.  It is very exciting.  It just needs to be deployed faster.  If they take too long to get it, all their competitors will have moved on to their next big things and Spark will be old and passe.  Marcelo and Masa need to put together a plan that gets this done as soon as physically possible and fund it.  Even if it means borrowing lots and lots of money.

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Not gonna happen with 2.5GHz anytime soon. 800MHz will be everywhere, 2.5GHz is for markets that need it. They're not stopping at 100M either. It's just the goal for 2014 since it basically launched this year.

 

Network Vision 1.0 is substantially complete, 2.0 is a different story.

 

Yeah, I really meant 800 most everywhere and 2500 only where needing capacity.   I'm very impressed with what it CAN do, but it's just not broad enough.

 

And it wasn't wise for CEO to claim 'substantially complete' when it implies they are now ready to compete.  They'll be able to compete when getting 800 most everywhere and 2500 in more areas.

 

I'm satisfied enough to stick with Sprint but I have Spark on nearly every site in my area.  They claim LA is a Spark market but it's loaded with gaps, many sites don't have 800 and could likely solve issue with 800LTE.

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Marcelo and Masa need to put together a plan that gets this done as soon as physically possible and fund it.  Even if it means borrowing lots and lots of money.

 

What ever happened to the $16B that Softbank was going to invest in Sprint to fully complete the rollout?  They were distracted by attempting Tmobile acquisition, but now that's not happening, how about throwing the money back into completing the network.

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I think it may actually be something in the geographical part that keeps Sprint from jumping ahead by leaps and bounds in Louisiana. If you think of Louisiana's land, it's mostly marsh - swamp, or just plain inhabitable in some spots. Many places would not suffice to hold a few thousand pounds of metal to be erected, not to mention the cranes + trucks + etc to erect such things...

You can't dig too far in Southern Louisiana or Mississippi without hitting water. The laws about burying people shows just how serious the problems are with ground saturation...a few inches of rain, and they have a major issue in some places.

 

Good insight, I didn't realize how that played that role in the deployment of cell towers in Louisiana.

 

What?!  Marcelo is not magic like John Legere and "rock star" Neville Ray?!  Aw, Sprint sucks!

 

Back to reality, many people do not realize that T-Mobile spent about three and a half years running advanced backhaul -- Neville Ray said as much in an interview.  And that advanced backhaul was run only to some of T-Mobile's sites, not all of T-Mobile's sites.  The time that took is a big reason why T-Mobile circa 2009 was roughly four years behind Sprint in its 3G deployment in many cities.

 

Fast forward to today.  Sprint is about three years in to its advanced backhaul project.  But Sprint is running advanced backhaul to all sites, not just those in cherry picked urban islands.  In certain areas, Sprint's progress may not be as fast as some would like.  But it exceeds what T-Mobile was able to accomplish during its three year advanced backhaul rollout.  Moreover, T-Mobile is just now getting around to most of its rural sites -- eight years later.

 

So, there is your dose of perspective...

 

AJ

 

Interesting perspective, I didn't know Tmo was doing that work back in 2009. But I wasn't paying attention to this back in 2009. Now I wish I had been..

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At big machine. I live in Redlands, but travel to Los Angeles and Orange county regularly. I have spent a number of nights in a hotel across from the staple center, where I even get an LTE signal, but it is so slow that it is unusable. And the 3G in the LA area is slow. when I am between Redlands and Fontana, I am on slow 3G. The 3G in orange county is slow. I have an iPhone 6+

 

Not sure why you would be slow because you should be able to access B41 sites with your phone and stay mostly on LTE and not on 3G anymore.

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And it wasn't wise for CEO to claim 'substantially complete' when it implies they are now ready to compete.  They'll be able to compete when getting 800 most everywhere and 2500 in more areas.

 

What was said is actually true. The rip and replace of Network Vision is substantially complete. With few exceptions, most markets are at 99 or 100% complete when it comes to installing Network Vision hardware. 

 

LTE is another matter entirely.

 

800 and 2500 LTE are part of NV 2.0, and aren't anywhere near complete.

 

I get this consistently between home and work, which is great, but only because they have Spark on nearly every cellsite (midtown KC to downtown KC), not 70% of sites or less like most Spark markets.

That's not entirely true either. Sprint just started adding "Spark", Band 41, to their cell sites a few months ago. You're still using the old Clearwire B41 sites, which are not nearly as widespread as you might think. The B41, "Spark", network will continue to densify this winter and into next sprint, as Spark actually is added to all the sites in downtown KC. 800 LTE isn't on every site either, but it's on enough that it helps fill the gaps and improves inbuilding coverage. I will agree though, that coverage in Kansas City is great, and will only get better. Sprint was the only network that didn't have data issues at the world series. I got a 20Mbps download in the 4th inning of Game 6 (70+ before the game). My coworkers on Verizon and AT&T kept having their data sessions time out.

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Good insight, I didn't realize how that played that role in the deployment of cell towers in Louisiana.

 

It doesn't really. Much of the Greater New Orleans metropolitan area is reclaimed swamp, but that's actually Sprint's strongest area in the entire state.

 

There are hundreds of cell towers in Louisiana on which Sprint could colocate if they wanted to improve their coverage. There are even dozens of former Nextel sites in Sprint coverage holes that they could easily use if they don't keep losing them to Verizon when the leases expire. But for whatever reason, they have chosen to leave huge holes of both coverage and capacity in former affiliate market areas here, and they have chosen to leave dozens of GMOs along the major highways. Nobody really knows why.

 

As was stated previously, most of the members around here have ported out to either one of the GSM carriers. AT&T has the best coverage across most of the state, and they're still adding new sites all the time. They're already running LTE on at least three bands in most areas.

 

I'm fortunate enough to be in an area where the service actually works unless I drive down the interstate, and my contract isn't up for another year, so I'm sticking it out.

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Thanks AJ for your technical expertise  :), a lot people live in the "I want it now" and have zero patience when it comes to waiting.  I think Sprint has done a phenomenal job in handling Network Vision in the urban and rural environments along with their nationwide LTE rollout.  All of people can't get their heads wrapped around that Sprint is basically building a new network from the ground up.

 

I do not know how many sites T-Mobile has versus Sprint, I do know that T-Mobile's network here in the Bristol and surrounding area is a rewind back to 2002 with the exception of a few spots in the Kingsport, TN area.  

Dan Hesse is that you? 3+ years of work, over a year behind schedule, a massively botched deployment,  and we "live in the "I want it now" and have zero patience" - I don't think most people would agree with your description.

 

It is 2.5 weeks away from 2015. 25% of Sprint's sites should not be waiting on upgraded backhaul.

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Dan Hesse is that you? 3+ years of work, over a year behind schedule, a massively botched deployment,  and we "live in the "I want it now" and have zero patience" - I don't think most people would agree with your description.

 

It is 2.5 weeks away from 2015. 25% of Sprint's sites should not be waiting on upgraded backhaul.

Egh, you caught me!   :P

 

But back to your response, how is Network Vision a year behind schedule? I think the majority of the S4GRU community would disagree with you. I mean we are talking about 45,000+ sites nationwide not to mention the Clear sites that are receiving Network Vision love, a new network built from the ground up, countless hours of site optimizations, and advanced backhaul that AJ (WiWavelength) mentioned a few posts above that is being deployed to every site rural and urban.  Where did you get that 25% of Sprint's sites still need advanced backhaul, because it's less than 25%.  If customers do not like Sprint's service then they should leave and come back another time if they feel the need to do so.

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It doesn't really. Much of the Greater New Orleans metropolitan area is reclaimed swamp, but that's actually Sprint's strongest area in the entire state.

 

There are hundreds of cell towers in Louisiana on which Sprint could colocate if they wanted to improve their coverage. There are even dozens of former Nextel sites in Sprint coverage holes that they could easily use if they don't keep losing them to Verizon when the leases expire. But for whatever reason, they have chosen to leave huge holes of both coverage and capacity in former affiliate market areas here, and they have chosen to leave dozens of GMOs along the major highways. Nobody really knows why.

 

As was stated previously, most of the members around here have ported out to either one of the GSM carriers. AT&T has the best coverage across most of the state, and they're still adding new sites all the time. They're already running LTE on at least three bands in most areas.

 

I'm fortunate enough to be in an area where the service actually works unless I drive down the interstate, and my contract isn't up for another year, so I'm sticking it out.

 

I think I've seen the acronym before, I just forget what it means. GMO?

 

I take it you're switching to AT&T then? At least until Sprint puts effort in around Louisana?

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I think I've seen the acronym before, I just forget what it means. GMO?

Ground Mount Option -- new base station equipment with legacy antennas, and almost none of them have any LTE. The worst part though is that they can't support 800 voice, meaning you get islands of coverage around sites that do have 800 voice. You can't drive down the interstate without dropping a call a few times.

 

I take it you're switching to AT&T then? At least until Sprint puts effort in around Louisana?

No, like I said, I still have another year of contract left, and the network actually works where I live as long as I don't travel too far.

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Egh, you caught me!   :P

 

But back to your response, how is Network Vision a year behind schedule? I think the majority of the S4GRU community would disagree with you. I mean we are talking about 45,000+ sites nationwide not to mention the Clear sites that are receiving Network Vision love, a new network built from the ground up, countless hours of site optimizations, and advanced backhaul that AJ (WiWavelength) mentioned a few posts above that is being deployed to every site rural and urban.  Where did you get that 25% of Sprint's sites still need advanced backhaul, because it's less than 25%.  If customers do not like Sprint's service then they should leave and come back another time if they feel the need to do so.

Network Vision was supposed to be completed by June 2013, then it was moved to December 2013. Then in June 2014 it was announced that it was "substantially complete." There are markets in the 70% and 80% complete range. It is still not complete. That's how I get a year behind. 25% is my rough guess approximation looking at the number of sites that STILL don't have LTE live on them. If that number isn't exact, my apologies, but I don't think I'm too far off.

 

Also, spare me the "new network built from the ground up." The sites were in place. They had to replace panels and boxes/cabinets. It's not like they came in and erected a tower and laid foundation on these sites. At least not 99% of them.

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Also, spare me the "new network built from the ground up." The sites were in place. They had to replace panels and boxes/cabinets. It's not like they came in and erected a tower and laid foundation on these sites. At least not 99% of them.

 

I'm sorry, what do you think cell sites are made of? We say built from the ground up in that Sprint actually replaced every single piece of their network during the Network Vision process. That's something that none of the other carriers have had to do.

 

Stop trying to be a smartass for the sake of argument.

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I'm sorry, what do you think cell sites are made of? We say built from the ground up in that Sprint actually replaced every single piece of their network during the Network Vision process. That's something that none of the other carriers have had to do.

 

Stop trying to be a smartass for the sake of argument.

 

T-mobile had to do complete rebuilds for their Nokia sites (>half their network) and heavy modifications for most of their Ericsson sites. Ofcourse most of these sites already had advanced backhaul deployed years ago and was fired up extremely rapidly once the clusters or individual sites were finished unlike Sprint sites that waits weeks upon weeks with some sites waiting more than a year. 

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