600 MHz auction results posted and transition schedule

[ericdabbs]

If these maps are correct, why is AT&T/Verizon even allowed to participate in the auction? Looks like they still have a ton of 700mhz in reserve...I guess to starve the competition?

 

Absolutely.  Verizon and AT&T want to not only own the low band spectrum for the coverage aspects but they want to build capacity using low band as well to really starve Tmobile and Sprint on both fronts.  Why would AT&T and Verizon let off the gas pedal when they can continue to stick it to the smaller 2 carriers.  This is why I think Verizon and AT&T should only be allowed to a single 5x5 block of 600 MHz spectrum each to help with economies of scale for equipment and chipsets but they certainly don't need a ton of low band spectrum that they have not only 700 MHz but 850 MHz as well.  So in that sense I don't want to see Verizon and AT&T to not participate in the 600 MHz auction because they can be helpful on that front but certainly should be limited.

[caspar347]

If these maps are correct, why is AT&T/Verizon even allowed to participate in the auction? Looks like they still have a ton of 700mhz in reserve...I guess to starve the competition?

I think I've said this before, but personally I feel like if a carrier already has CLR A+B and some 700 (a 10x10) in a market (like Verizon has here), they shouldn't be allowed to bid for 600 in that market.

 

(I'm really getting a lot of mileage out of this chart lately)

It's really kinda insane that a carrier can hold over 2/3rds of the low-band in a market and be allowed to skew that even higher.

[S4GRU]

I think I've said this before, but personally I feel like if a carrier already has CLR A+B and some 700 (a 10x10) in a market (like Verizon has here), they shouldn't be allowed to bid for 600 in that market.

 

(I'm really getting a lot of mileage out of this chart lately)

It's really kinda insane that a carrier can hold over 2/3rds of the low-band in a market and be allowed to skew that even higher.

Heck, I'd say if they have Cellular A or B and a 700 6x6 or 12x12, then no 600 in that market. They don't need to have both A&B to be omitted from 600, in my opinion.

 

But in the instances where a provider has Cellular A and B and 700, they can go straight to hell and not get any 600 in that market.

 

Using Tapatalk on Nexus 6

[WiWavelength]

If these maps are correct, why is AT&T/Verizon even allowed to participate in the auction? Looks like they still have a ton of 700mhz in reserve...I guess to starve the competition?

 

Are the maps from a T-Mobile presentation or filing?  They do look like T-Mobile agitprop.

 

That said, neither VZW nor AT&T has any significant 700 MHz spectrum in reserve.  Maybe VZW still has a little bit of unsold Lower 700 MHz -- I cannot recall. 

 

As for why VZW and AT&T are or should be allowed to participate, I offer one word:  revenue.  Within reason, FCC auctions are mandated to maximize their revenue for the Treasury.  Cutting out deep pocket bidders would reduce revenue.

 

AJ

[Ascertion]

Are the maps from a T-Mobile presentation or filing?  They do look like T-Mobile agitprop.

 

That said, neither VZW nor AT&T has any significant 700 MHz spectrum in reserve.  Maybe VZW still has a little bit of unsold Lower 700 MHz -- I cannot recall. 

 

As for why VZW and AT&T are or should be allowed to participate, I offer one word:  revenue.  Within reason, FCC auctions are mandated to maximize their revenue for the Treasury.  Cutting out deep pocket bidders would reduce revenue.

 

AJ

Some markets have up to 134Mhz of low spectrum on Verizon, according to the map.  How on earth can they be using all of that?  IIRC, Verizon's B13 only goes up to 10x10mhz?  Which is only 20.  Most markets, they have 45-60Mhz of 700, why aren't they adding that for capacity?  Why are they adding AWS4 instead? 

 

Anyways, I agree with you on the revenue part.  Really a shame that AT&T/Verizon have that much low-band spectrum and want more.

[WiWavelength]

Some markets have up to 134Mhz of low spectrum on Verizon, according to the map.  How on earth can they be using all of that?  IIRC, Verizon's B13 only goes up to 10x10mhz?  Which is only 20.  Most markets, they have 45-60Mhz of 700, why aren't they adding that for capacity?

 

Again, what is the source of the map?  I ask because it seems to be "lying with statistics" or outright fudging the numbers.

 

Here is the low band spectrum available to VZW:  Cellular A block 25 MHz, Cellular B block 25 MHz, Lower 700 MHz A block 12 MHz, Lower 700 MHz B block 12 MHz, and Upper 700 MHz C block 22 MHz.  That is 96 MHz maximum, not 134 MHz maximum.  But the map certainly makes it appear that VZW holds 134 MHz of low band spectrum somewhere.

 

Furthermore, VZW holds both Cellular blocks in very few markets.  That is rare.  And VZW sold off most of its Lower 700 MHz to T-Mobile.  The only given is that VZW holds the Upper 700 MHz C block nationwide.  And in a typical VZW market, it also holds one Cellular block.  Thus, that typical low band total for VZW is 47 MHz -- of which 40 MHz is usable for LTE.

 

Ah, here is what the map is doing -- I just figured it out.  It is adding up the aforementioned low band spectrum plus the Lower 700 MHz C block 12 MHz, Lower 700 MHz D block 6 MHz (unpaired), Lower 700 MHz E block 6 MHz (unpaired), and the rebanded SMR X block 14 MHz.  There is precisely the 134 MHz maximum.

 

So, the map is including low band spectrum that is not feasibly available to VZW.  And it is binning together a huge range of 60-134 MHz as the maximum.  That last part is a bit like publishing the honor roll -- but not revealing that the top students had only C+ averages.  Yes, the map is "lying with statistics."

 

AJ

[Ascertion]

 

 

Again, what is the source of the map? I ask because it seems to be "lying with statistics" or outright fudging the numbers.

AJ

I found it under the T-Mobile subreddit. I should've checked the FCC dashboard before posting. You're absolutely right, the numbers are fudged. Still, even in those markets where Vzw has more than 20mhz, why don't they add extra B13 carriers?

 

 

Sent from my M8

[Trip]

How can they?  It's an 11x11 block and they're doing 10x10 with it already.

 

- Trip

[WiWavelength]

I found it under the T-Mobile subreddit. I should've checked the FCC dashboard before posting. You're absolutely right, the numbers are fudged. Still, even in those markets where Vzw has more than 20mhz, why don't they add extra B13 carriers?

 

I do not understand the question.  Band 13 has been tapped out from the very start of VZW's LTE deployment.  It is one 10 MHz FDD carrier, so there is your 20 MHz total.  The other 2 MHz is useless.

 

AJ

[Ascertion]

I do not understand the question. Band 13 has been tapped out from the very start of VZW's LTE deployment. It is one 10 MHz FDD carrier, so there is your 20 MHz total. The other 2 MHz is useless.

 

AJ

Ah, so it's pairing C, D, and E blocks together for a total of 22 MHz? Okay, I misunderstood. I see now why Verizon wants 600mhz too.

 

Sent from my M8

[WiWavelength]

Ah, so it's pairing C, D, and E blocks together for a total of 22 MHz? Okay, I misunderstood. I see now why Verizon wants 600mhz too.

 

No.  Band 13 is the Upper 700 MHz C block and nothing else.  I think you may be confusing Upper 700 MHz with Lower 700 MHz.  Those two are wholly separate bands -- both at the FCC and with 3GPP.

 

AJ

[EvanA]

 

 

Again, what is the source of the map? I ask because it seems to be "lying with statistics" or outright fudging the numbers.

I found it under the T-Mobile subreddit. I should've checked the FCC dashboard before posting. You're absolutely right, the numbers are fudged. Still, even in those markets where Vzw has more than 20mhz, why don't they add extra B13 carriers?

 

 

Sent from my M8

The map is from a report by Neville Ray that was submitted to the FCC. You can read the full text here: http://savewirelesschoice.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/AS-FILED-N.-Ray-Letter-06-02-2015.pdf

[WiWavelength]

The map is from a report by Neville Ray that was submitted to the FCC. You can read the full text here: http://savewirelesschoice.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/AS-FILED-N.-Ray-Letter-06-02-2015.pdf

 

So, I was correct -- it is T-Mobile agitprop.

 

The FCC should see right through the manipulation, but unfortunately, not everyone will.  Some, even at the FCC, will find the stats convincing.

 

AJ

[WiWavelength]

For those who would like a visual of VZW's Lower 700 MHz and Upper 700 MHz auction winnings, see this map:

 

 

Most of the two darker shades of red is now gone -- Lower 700 MHz A/B block licenses sold off to AT&T, Grain Management, and T-Mobile.  What is left is the pale shade of red that is the Upper 700 MHz C block in which VZW runs its original 10 MHz FDD band 13 carrier.

 

If the hot linked image disappears, visit this site:

 

http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=187&p=230

 

AJ

[greencat]

It can also be relieved by finishing deployment of the low band spectrum they already have and densifying the network, both of which they are actively working on. Both which will likely be finished before 600mhz can even be used.

 

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk

It obviously can not, or Wichita and KC wouldn't have the holes they do. Sprint might not be finished with 1900 LTE by the time 600mhz can be used. It'd be stupid to not get this extra service which would strongly bolster the network instead of being stuck 5 years later saying "gee I wish we would have bid on that spectrum when it was available." Sprint sorely needs the building penetration and propagation properties of 600mhz spectrum to make it competitive.

[travismheim]

It obviously can not, or Wichita and KC wouldn't have the holes they do. Sprint might not be finished with 1900 LTE by the time 600mhz can be used. It'd be stupid to not get this extra service which would strongly bolster the network instead of being stuck 5 years later saying "gee I wish we would have bid on that spectrum when it was available." Sprint sorely needs the building penetration and propagation properties of 600mhz spectrum to make it competitive.

I never said they shouldn't participate in the auction. 600mhz spectrum won't be usable for a long time, at least four years from now assuming they can win enough for any meaningful deployment. They are still working on finishing bringing LTE to sites and are about to start on their first network expansion in a long time.

 

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

[WiWavelength]

It obviously can not, or Wichita and KC wouldn't have the holes they do. Sprint might not be finished with 1900 LTE by the time 600mhz can be used. It'd be stupid to not get this extra service which would strongly bolster the network instead of being stuck 5 years later saying "gee I wish we would have bid on that spectrum when it was available." Sprint sorely needs the building penetration and propagation properties of 600mhz spectrum to make it competitive.

 

You know, you are just about the only one who rails on coverage holes in Wichita and Kansas City.  Most everyone else is pretty satisfied with coverage now in the Kansas market.  Maybe the issue is with you and your expectations, not with the network.

 

Additionally, you felt it necessary to respond to a two and a half month old post only now.  That seems like dredging up a post just so that you can say something negative.

 

Next, I do not know where you get the idea that Sprint might not even be finished with band 25 deployment by the time that 600 MHz can be used.  You are not a sponsor, so you are not privy to timetables or completed sites.  But Sprint is mostly finished with band 25 deployment.  Some sites linger, but over 33,000 have band 25.

 

Finally, even if the 600 MHz auction happens next year and comes off without a hitch, it will take years for the affected TV broadcasters to relinquish their channels and the FCC to repack their vacated spectrum.  Estimates are that 600 MHz may not be usable until 2019.

 

AJ

[Arysyn]

You know, you are just about the only one who rails on coverage holes in Wichita and Kansas City. Most everyone else is pretty satisfied with coverage now in the Kansas market. Maybe the issue is with you and your expectations, not with the network.

 

Additionally, you felt it necessary to respond to a two and a half month old post only now. That seems like dredging up a post just so that you can say something negative.

 

Next, I do not know where you get the idea that Sprint might not even be finished with band 25 deployment by the time that 600 MHz can be used. You are not a sponsor, so you are not privy to timetables or completed sites. But Sprint is mostly finished with band 25 deployment. Some sites linger, but over 33,000 have band 25.

 

Finally, even if the 600 MHz auction happens next year and comes off without a hitch, it will take years for the affected TV broadcasters to relinquish their channels and the FCC to repack their vacated spectrum. Estimates are that 600 MHz may not be usable until 2019.

 

AJ

That timeline does make me think a bit differently towards the 600mhz idea. Doesn't sound as good of a deal as the AWS3 auction.

[WiWavelength]

That timeline does make me think a bit differently towards the 600mhz idea. Doesn't sound as good of a deal as the AWS3 auction.

 

Though it was auctioned months ago, AWS-3 will not be freely deployable for some time either.  The 1700 MHz uplink is government spectrum, military use, if I recall correctly.

 

AJ

[EvanA]

Though it was auctioned months ago, AWS-3 will not be freely deployable for some time either. The 1700 MHz uplink is government spectrum, military use, if I recall correctly.

 

AJ

The FCC and DoD created protection zones for AWS-3. AWS-3 is freely deployable outside of those protection zones, but inside the zones it is going to take 39 months to begin the coordination process, by DoD estimates.

[WiWavelength]

The FCC and DoD created protection zones for AWS-3. AWS-3 is freely deployable outside of those protection zones, but inside the zones it is going to take 39 months to begin the coordination process, by DoD estimates.

 

Right.  And that is why I said freely deployable.  Some places but not all places, hence not freely deployable.  AWS-3 also has not yet been 3GPP codified; band 10 comes close -- but not quite.  So, that is another hold up.  It is going to be a while.

 

AJ

[Arysyn]

Though it was auctioned months ago, AWS-3 will not be freely deployable for some time either. The 1700 MHz uplink is government spectrum, military use, if I recall correctly.

 

AJ

That is a shame, because both AT&T and T-Mobile really need to use that spectrum in certain areas, though I'm mostly thinking of Dish Network's potential merger with T-Mobile in regards to that spectrum, along with AT&T's spectrum here in Chicago. At least a dozen people I've spoken with the past few weeks in person around here say they have AT&T, but are hesitant to tell me how the network is for them. They seem to have it mostly in family plans and because of billing streamlining with UVerse.

[Arysyn]

The FCC and DoD created protection zones for AWS-3. AWS-3 is freely deployable outside of those protection zones, but inside the zones it is going to take 39 months to begin the coordination process, by DoD estimates.

Is the Chicago market in or out of those protection zones?

[kyle_4thousand]

Let's say Sprint secures enough 600mhz to deploy a 10x10 swath of LTE in next year's auction. (fingers crossed) How quickly would vendors be able to manufacture antennas for carriers to overlay the network, in anticipation of the spectrum being cleared? What about OEMs building 600mhz functionality into devices to seed the market?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lilotimz]

Let's say Sprint secures enough 600mhz to deploy a 10x10 swath of LTE in next year's auction. (fingers crossed) How quickly would vendors be able to manufacture antennas for carriers to overlay the network, in anticipation of the spectrum being cleared? What about OEMs building 600mhz functionality into devices to seed the market?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

9-12 months minimum starting from scratch after the spectrum is cleared and a band is named.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5